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if someone in a thread gets personal does the thread get removed or does the person making the personal attack get removed?
I'm gonna grab this one since I'm here for the moment and Sue Ann is not. (PS I love Channing too!)
To answer your question, Jodi... we have very specific rules here which we've just tightened considerably and are committed to enforcing. They state that name calling, libelous comments, and derogatory comments DIRECTED at persons or businesses won't be tolerated. Such posts will be deleted, possibly without warning or notice. Our job as HA's is, among other things, to remind people of the rules and to make sure they're enforced in case of trespass.
If the originator of a thread is the one behaving in this way (clearly not the case here) then the thread would be deleted because deleting the first post automatically deletes all posts that follow.
In particular egregious cases TT reserves the right to remove member accounts but in all the time we've been open we've not even considered doing that yet, much less taken action in this vein. We try to allow for misunderstandings and redemption. We're all human here.
It's all on a case-by-case basis and we try to support the public airing of as much gray content as possible in support of free expression and the sharing of ALL ideas... but we're always trying to prevent a train wreck here due to misunderstandings or strongly felt reactions, so TT is ready to delete if/when things get too hairy going forward to do just that.
I'm out for a while this afternoon but will check in here later. Fight nice, ladies... as my grandma used to say... 
Mountain Dreamer BearsOh and another thing I hate, is when you go to get your drivers license re-newed and the person asks you if all the info on it is still the same, you say yes and then they look at it and linger on the weight part, OK so I have not changed it since I was in high school and weighed 100 lbs, and yes my weight has got up a little, OK OK A LOT, the sad thing is if I ever get in a wreck they will look at the ID and go "boy there must be someone else hurt because this ID is for a little bit of a thing, I don't know who this fat whale is that's hurt" Ok I decided I didn't want to go nameless, I reluctantly told her "Oh yeah my weight has changed,.......I weigh 101
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
Jodi you crack me up!
Storytime BearsShelli thanks for the info, I think the rules are really great, it keeps everything balanced.
Bear Hugs
Jodi
I am off to the movies and I plan to eat greasy buttery fattening popcorn :dance:
Storytime BearsThat is why my weight went to 101 
Past Time BearsHi Sue Ann
By the way I love Channing
Bear Hugs
Jodi
Thanks so much, Jodi . . . appreciate it!!! Think Shelli answered your questions . . . thank you, Shelli.
SanguineCreationsHere is a better definition: a person who acts as a decoy or confederate of a barker, peddler or gambler in order to influence bystanders to bid, buy, bet etc...
they are usually friends or relatives of ebay sellers who put in phony bids to drive up the price... they know they will not have to buy the product at the end of the auction... the seller will notify the next lowest bidder that they have won, usually claiming non payment by the winning bidder.. (their buddy)... and voila... the second highest bidder just bought somebody's product for more than they would have...... in this case...a bear. Actually it goes on quite a bit even without the hidden bidder option...
As a buyer:I've been offered items as the next lowest bidder before, it didn't occur to me, that this might be happening, but I've never bought that way, so if they were doing this to me, they lost out.
As a seller: I always put a start price, and that price is the lowest price I'd accept for what I'm selling, that way anything else is a bonus and I'm happy.
Shell bidding is dishonest (and I don't think even once is ok). 
SanguineCreations:doh: OH Man, You guys figured it out :doh: well didn't start them but may have added to them!!! :crackup: :crackup: Isn't that what you guys do with your rejects or was I misinformed!!!??? :crackup:
Hugs,
Krista
:crackup:
Please keep in mind as you read my post this is MY OPINION and MY OPINION ONLY!!
Shill bidding is an epidemic on ebay right now. It makes me soooooooo angry and thats the reason I refuse to do private auctions...trust me, I would like to so I could protect my bidders (the few of them) from any potential scams, but too many people have ruined it for us all. Our bidders dont trust us anymore.
The sad part is I know of many people who have been busted for shill bidding, and ultimately, ebay lets them back on and they immediately start doing private auctions, thus allowing them to continue their bad behavior behind closed doors. I believe that if you have ever been caught shill bidding, you lose the right to the private auction feature.
Ebay doesnt take shill bidding seriously because the more bids that are placed, the more money they make. Now if I were to openly try to sell something outside of ebay, they would be all over that because they are then losing money! Its a no win situation for those of us that are honest sellers.
I have been on ebay for many, many years and all of my original buyers are gone now. Shill bidding has scared them all away. Many of these people I still keep in contact with, but ebay isn't what it used to be.
I hope someday they will understand the importance of getting this under control....if they get rid of the dishonest sellers, they will then have more buyers come back and use ebay again. That would be a win-win situation for all of us!!!
Thanks for starting this post Jodi! I think its great that all of us have our eyes open to what is happening and its a topic that has needed to be address for a long time!
Bear hugs,
Kim
well said Kim!!!
I will keep your bon fire in mind Sandy with any future rejects 
Hugs,
Krista
SanguineCreations<sigh>
:hug:
Jellybelly BearsThank-you so much Sarah, once again I am amazed by the love of you all, I am sorry I ever let myself get stirred up about this whole shill bidding thing, Hugs, Susan.
I just deleted my post because i meant to PM it to you :whistle:
Hi Susan, I was pretty sure that there was a misunderstanding...I know Lisa doesn't pop on here very often, so I will write to her and let her know you posted
Delartful BearsI want to clear something up. I have never "dobbed in" a bear artist, I would never "dob" in an artist without proof. Whne I made mention of letting eBay know about shilling happening in the re-born world - it was obvious it was happening, it was a known thing in the doll world, that this artist does this, and yet, eBay either couldn't or wouldn't act.
I wanted to share my experience with what's happening in the hope that the bear world doesn't go that way (it's very common in reborn dolls and seems to be happening more in the bear world)
I didn't want to be jumped on that I dobbed someone in without proof. I take expection to that insinuation.
I do feel people in the same field though need to somehow try to clean up what's happening, and put a stop to it, because it's really going to get out of hand. I'm not going to appologise for that.
Danni
Posts: 8,574Make that a double Shelli......
Jane Perala Designs Ltd.When I first started selling on ebay a little over a year ago, I had no idea what shill bidding was. I think it was a previous thread here that first brought it to my attention. Yes, I feel it is VERY WRONG, for all the reasons that you have all said so much more eloquently than I ever could.
I must be very naive, because I don't notice things like that going on, and I watch the teddy auctions on ebay all the time - it all just goes over my head! :doh: However, when I do find out about some sort of blatent dishonesty I get very angry. 
I hope ebay is able to sort it out soon, as I am not fond of the new system. I have tried a couple of private auctions, in the hope that my customers would like it better, but it didn't seem to make any difference at all to any of them. Most of my customers are repeat ones, so if I ever have the need to use the second chance option, I think I would contact them privately first by email, and then if they were interested, I would follow up with the second chance option through ebay. Hopefully that way they would know that it was genuine.
Well, it's 10:30 pm here, so I'm off to bed. Good night all!
Jane P.
Posts: 3,177I make bears and collect them so here's my take on the whole kerfuffle....
Well, personally i HATE the new hidden bidders thing on eBay and have'nt bought a bear from eBay since it was introduced.
I never used to bid on Private Auctions as i always felt uncomfortable bidding when i could'nt check to see if there was any shill bidding going on. Not that i'm saying every private auction was dishonest cos i'm not - it's just my personal preference to know who's doing what and when and with who.
I don't know how other collectors feel about it but i am very doubtful that i would bid on a bear now unless the artist is someone i have bought from before or had watched their auctions before the change came in and felt that they were trustworthy.
I have'nt sold on eBay since the change came either - i always promised myself that i would never use private auctions and now i am, in effect, being forced into doing it. Which is a shame because my cats were doing really well and know i won't be able to use eBay to sell them.
Yes, i know there are other auction sites and i do have my website but, i don't care what you say, eBay reaches the largest audience and if you are struggling to make a name for yourself and your bears it is the perfect marketplace for doing this.
I think shill bidders should be dragged from their beds at dawn - have their backsides kicked and their foreheads tattooed with " I am a dirty rotten cheat" before making them clean out the nearest public toilets........with their tongues..................but then again i'm just a peacenik.
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Penny
This is a dodgy subject isn't it.I think we all have been amazed at what some things fetch,often things not to our tatse???I am still a wee bit confused about shill bidding as what if the shill bidders wins???Almost my entire income comes from ebay and I do get the same people over and over again including many close friends.I had to go private as at the end of almost every auction for almost six months I got an e-mail from a prospective buyer who was not comfortable bidding against one of the other bidders.I would not let that stop me as I think thats what an aution is all about but I could see their predicament.I could not make similar bears forever more getting less for the ones on auction and in a way being unfair to those that had bid so I had to go private.I dont think it has affected sales and I hope it doesnt make me look dodgy but it had to be done for fairness sake. I dont know if I care what anyone thinks looking at my auctions as its my livlihood andfeeding the family is way more important than what ebay watchers think.Many others maybe have situations like this ,maybe some of the folks who sell for masses so we have to think hard before we suspect.I have wondered many times at some of the things sold on ebay but in the end someone must have liked it a heck of a lot to outbid the shillers.Sad for them that they have been conned but on the other hand they must have thought it was worth it.I genuinely adore my buyers as they have made it possible for me to be at home with my daughter as she grew up which is very hard when you are the only breadwinner.I could never do anything to con them and imagine most ebay sellers feel the same way.For me to sit here and make wee souls and every one of them be sold and appreciated is a great thing and something I reall appreciate.Oh dear I have gone all sappy which is so unlike me!!!Big hugs to all wee scone buyers out there ,love you!!!miss you already ha ha.( I am not selling much on ebay as I am getting ready for the madness that is hugglets!!!and I so miss the buzz of ebay)
Storytime BearsPenny do not deprive ebay collectors of your wonderful cats, I am encouraging everyone to write ebay and complain about the new system. But please list your beautiful work, I love looking at it. And by the way your post cracked me up you peacenick you! :crackup:
Bear Hugs
Jodi
Posts: 3,177Oh i forgot to say.........someone had a great idea about adding a note to their auction about offering to send their bidders a copy of the the other bidders names? What a great idea! That's the way to go is'nt it?
And, i forgot to say - dammit, i've forgotten it again. I'll have to come back later when the old brain box has been rebooted.
Penny - middle age ain't all fun y'know
Oh i forgot to say.........someone had a great idea about adding a note to their auction about offering to send their bidders a copy of the the other bidders names? What a great idea! That's the way to go is'nt it?
Hmmnn... I'm not sure - unless you got all the bidders' permission first. I do make all my auctions private - I didn't used to until the occasion I sold a bear and then a scammer pretending to be me began offering second chance offers to all the unsuccessful bidders - fortunately they checked with me first and no one lost any money, but I've made my auctions private ever since and my collectors seem happier with that.
Regards,
Christine
Posts: 3,177Hi Christine,
I would state quite categorically in my auction that i do not agree with the new hidden bidding and that if anyone wishes to bid on my item as far as i am concerned there is nothing to hide and that all bidders ID's/bids could be obtained from me once the auction is over and they had bid. Obviously if they were'nt happy with this they simply would'nt bid. I wonder how it would go down with punters?
I'll try it the next time i list something and see what happens. I can't see why i need anyones permission if they all took part in the bidding - surely not? And if the auction has finished what does it matter.
You know, i just can't get my head around this new ruling from eBay. What a bloody waste of time and what a pain in the butt. We could all be bidding on each others bears -
HEY WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!!!! Lets all get together - set up a consortium and all bid on each others bears!!!!
YAY! We could all be living it up in Barbados by next Xmas. I baggsy the yacht and lithe limbed limbo dancer.
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
This just a joke - don't nobody get outta their tree please (tippy toes here)
Penny :dance:
Kran-Beary'sA little off topic, but I watched a News program 2 weeks ago. I think it was on the Discovery channel (but I could be wrong.) It said that eBay is now the largest 'Fence' of stolen items in the world, and due to privacy issues, the thieves can hide behind their multiple user ID's selling goods that they and their cohorts have stolen right off the shelves of our retail stores.
Ebay, is making money from the sale of these stolen items. In the same manner, they make money from the inflated price of items that have been 'shill bid' to a higher value. (Please see my post on page one...shill bidding is a criminal offence in both Canada and the US. It's fraud)
I have to ponder upon the ethicality of this.
My own feeling is that eBay is just too large to be able to adequately police all of the hidden crimes of the technologically advanced 21st century criminal.
It's not just the bear industry that is hurt by this. It's all of the industries who enjoyed a safer eBay a few years ago.
hugs,
nt
Posts: 8,574Holly smoke Nancy!
That is food for thought over the morning cuppa....and you are right- it will take some pondering-
Exactly which vendors can be trusted-and is the "Tillberg" ( I use you only as an example because I know you wont take offence) that I saw and am watching really yours, yours but stolen, or a really good knock off.....
And aren't there laws about receiving stolen goods, even if you don't know it, it isn't yours so the money spent, if you are found, is lost and you no longer have the item either?
ignorance of the law is no excuse
dilu
LuxembearsOh and another thing I hate, is when you go to get your drivers license re-newed and the person asks you if all the info on it is still the same, you say yes and then they look at it and linger on the weight part, OK so I have not changed it since I was in high school and weighed 100 lbs, and yes my weight has got up a little,
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
...and I hate it when they take a crappy photo.
As mentioned before I think it would be a very good idea to contact ebay with suggestions (as they always say they like ebayers input). It's not knowing the bidders that is the problem...it is having access to contact the bidders. Can't ebay put a block on this? With almost every auction I run, all my bidders receive fake second chance offers . They would not get these offers if they the scammers were not able to gain access to contact the bidders.
I am sure there are many many MANY people who do nto like this new system.
Storytime BearsNancy I saw that same story, when ebay went to this new system, I thought boy they are really dumb to go more private after this kind of story. No if's and's or but's they make more money when the general public cannot monitor their business practices. I think they are courting a major lawsuit, and that really is such a shame because ebay was and can again, be a wonderful place to make a living.
Bear Hugs
Jodi
Hey Judi I had posted then say that you had posted too,
I agree, I think they can block the contact feature or modify it so that you have to register ebay with a credit card, like sellers have to, before you can contact another member, buyers don't have to provide proof that they are real people
Storytime BearsHey Judi, I had posted then saw that you had posted too,
I agree, I think they can block the contact feature or modify it so that you have to register ebay with a credit card, like sellers have to, before you can contact another member, buyers don't have to provide proof that they are real people and I think that is where the fake second chance offer come from.
I agree with what you said about the picture thing, I stand there lookin good and the mean lady behind the counter keeps changing it to an old woman. :photo: I think she has it out for me.
Bear Hugs
Jodi
Oh and I think I already told you this, but I don't want to go without saying, I am so happy for you with all the award nods I swear you have reached the zen of bearmaking , your work has always been beautiful, but holy cow, they now look not of this world, but made by made by the bear gods!!!!!!!!
