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Kim-Bee BearsI want some danglies... 
I want to make a bear with piggie tails and the curlie-qs you posted would be perfect...
Matilda Huggington-beareKim, talk to Fran ,her sister will know of a stockist. And possibly Naysa I just pull into fluff and it felts beautifully.
The colours are quite vibrant as well, very cheerful. Matilda
It should arrive this week Sabine. If not tell me and I will go down to the post office and be quite miffed with them. Not that they can do anything about it. But with all those signatures I had to do surely it will be traceable.
hahahahahahah
I love the way you do all these experiments Dilu. The amount I can learn without lifting a finger.hahahah
Keep up the good work. I always enjoy reading your postings. They hold that sense of mystery, you never know what you are about to learn. 
:doh: :redface: hahahahah
Kim-Bee BearsThank you Matilda... it is on my list of things to buy LOL 
Good Morning, I've been scanning posts. Still looking for that "real job". None around.
First photo - batt, second is roving
Simple terms: Batt cleaned carded wool - fibres going in all directions the best for felting. Althow some wools are too soft to felt. Most "core" fibre is too soft. Use your wool or use Polyester Stuffing that you use to stuff your bear.
Roving - wool that has been cleaned, carded and combed - this is what spinners use beacuse all the fibres are going in one direction and they can pull off small strands to spin. This is definitely harder to felt
Batt felts easier. Roving needs to be worked with - pulling fibres into diferent directions before feling or felting with layers going in different directions.
You don't need to card your wool batt before use. A very early post topic discussed this shortly after this needle felting area started.
Does this help anyone?
Excerpt from my book in progress... Felting is sculpting using wool batt or roving. Batt is cleaned and carded wool; the wool fibres are going in all directions. Roving is basically one step beyond wool batt; it is carded until all the fibres are going in one direction. Roving is more often used when spinning.
Carding takes place after the wool is washed, carding is either accomplished with a carding machine, drum or hand carders. Cleaned and carded wool is readily available. If you want to card small quantities of wool try using two metal dog brushes, you need two, to work the fibres back and forth mixing them together. Carding machines and even hand carders are a little pricey. With a carding machine, drum carders or hand carders you can also mix different colors or wools together to create your own blend.
Neysa
Posts: 8,574Thank you Neysa! I wasn't getting how Judi's batts were easier than rovings....now I get it....Which must be why Barbara Allen suggested messing up the rovings before starting the felting process.....
dilu
Matilda Huggington-beareYes is does help Neysa. I have now identified two lots of wool I have as 'Batt" so thankyou. I would not have known other wise. 
Matilda
LuxembearsGreat description Neysa....I just couldn't get it righ before..eventhough I knew what was in my head.
I MUCH prefer wool batt. Right now I am working with roving and find that it looks a bit swirly when finished. I don't like this look...so, I cut up some length of roving , then pulled it apart and it works much much nicer now and has the finished effet I want.
I was very confused about wool batt vs. wool roving. Now I have a big bag of batt I can see the difference! The batt is kinda blanket like, rather than snakelike!
Rufnut Teddy'sThanks Neysa, your explanation is very helpful. :dance:
Kim-Bee BearsI agree, your post was very helpful, Neysa! And the pics help sooo much too!!! :hug:
Thank you ladies,
Anything I can do to help I'm here. If I don't answer email me. This looking for a real job stinks and is hard in this economy! I don't want to end up at Walmart!
Neysa
Posts: 8,574Yikes! What a true waste of talant.....wallmart....but you are right, the economy isn't good inspite of what the talking heads say.....did you guys know that when the evaluate cost of living the deduct energy and food costs. Hmmmmm if you are poor or even middle class now that's about it....energu and cost of living. So they say there is no inflation......cuz they don't count the too biggest inflation makers!
good luck Neysa
were rooting for you
dilu
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)I realize that this is an old topic, but thought I'd jump in with what I've found.
Many of the more commonly found breeds/fleeces are what could be called double-coated (most have at least 3 types of fiber, but that's a whole other chapter...), a longer fiber and a shorter under-coat.
Taking this from a spinner's viewpoint, the staple, or 'lock', will be pulled through a 'comb' to separate out the shorter fibers. What's left are the longer smoother fibers: the put-up is called Top.
Don't be seduced by the shiny, lustrous ropes of fiber sold - many if not most suppliers are still not knowledgeable enough about NFing to be able to recommend which fiber NEEDLE felts better/best. What works for spinning & NFing isn't always best for us NFers.
Top spins and wet felts wonderfully but is "usually" not the best choice for NFing. If & when it felts, much more labor has gone into getting there. As NFing already doubles & triples the length of time spent over sewing, most ppl would avoid this extra time if they could.
Also, the end result of using Top does not look any different from carded fiber so the choice of time-spent is one of the largest differences. The other is that, due to the nature of the fiber, Top is smoother & slicker and takes longer to NF.
The shorter fibers pulled out in the combing process (though not all breeds need both combing & carding), and uniform length fleeces can go directly to carding.
http://www.joyofhandspinning.com/hand-carding.html
These partially align the fibers, leaving them in a more random pattern within the mass. I've written chapters on this (for a new, comprehensive book) - why & how carded fibers NF better, but know that they come in contact with each other much quicker. The put-up of carded fibers can be as roving, sliver (SLY ver) or batt, which all work equally well for NFing.
The difference in the use of combed and carded fiber goes back to their original purposes: Combed makes Worsted ply (smooth, tight twist, little loft in the ply), Carded makes Woolen (fuzzier surface, less twist, loftier ply). An Italian suit that's hand/drape feels weightless & super thin compared to a soft, thick sweater: worsted vs. woolen.
All that being said, some breeds' fiber also practically felt themselves. They are usually the finest micron fiber breeds; simply over-handling them will felt them in your fingers.
I would not recommend polyfil for just what Judi said - slick, spongey and not a solid core. If you're making a seasonal decorative piece that will not be handled much and on disp[lay for short periods, then you could use it, though I appreciate the integrity of all wool.
I also highly recommend against using raw fiber, core or covering. The moths will get to it, chewing through the fiber to get to the 'dirt' they love.
Bobbie
Posts: 8,574WOW Bobbie,
Very interesting mini class in wool and types. Thank you!
Would you mind sharing with us who you go to for supplies ??
also is this why some ads make statements like 'long staple' they are refering to the wool underneath?
Thanks again
dilu
Flying Fur StudiosThanks Bobbie, that was a great read! Learned alot, Thanks
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)>>>statements like 'long staple'.
>>> they are referring to the wool underneath?
Long staple - fiber between 4/5" & 8" in length.
The fiber in the undercoat gets Combed out and is drum carded for woolen purposes. The put-up can be batt, roving, sliver.
If it's shiny and rope-like, it's Top - Best for spinning. Not the best/easiest-to-work-with for NFing.
If it's fuzzy and matte looking, it's excellent for NFing.
Suppliers: I kit with NZ Romney from Wilde Bros in Philadelphia. It's considered a medium grade wool, but gives excellent results for beginners as well as those with more experience. It will needle to rock hardness as well as soft; the degree of firmness should be governed by the end use of your work.
Will it be a seasonal, decorative piece? Not on display for long or handled much? Then a rolled up and quickly needled piece with only a few needle sizes/styles fills the bill.
Want it to never change shape unless it falls in a fire ir the dog steals it? Use a fiber that's firmer and go through the range of 6 - 7 needle sizes/styles as I do.
Most of my work 2" - 3" and larger is Wilde fiber, with or w/o a final coating of the 3 wools listed at the bottom..
http://www.wildeyarns.com/history_of_wilde_yarns.htm
For quickest delivery of smaller amounts, 4 oz and up, use their eBay store
Seller ID: wildewools
We are so lucky here in the States; within a 100 mile band both above and below the border with our neighbor to the north, there is a high concentration of shepards & flocks of most known breeds. I've collected 300+ samples of fibers to be photographed & processed for the new book, to let ppl know that there's more easily available than just Merino and 'Wool'.
Google is our friend!! Writing and asking for a small sample is an excellent way to find out about more breeds. It will also tell you much about how there sheep are handled - e.g., is there a lot of vm (vegetable matter) in the fiber from sheep that are un-coated or fed from above.
These are my 3 favorite fibers and the 3 shepherds I order from. Their
wool is clean and reasonably priced.
If I had to rate them in very detailed gradings, the 1st has larger/thicker micron count
(a relative term for comparison amongst these 3).
Polworth is second and Cormo the finest.
Cormo is also one that can easily be
over-worked/over-needled. Tell them Bobbie sent you!
Merino x Rambouillet fiber (RAM - bow - lay)
Marr Haven Farms - MI
Barbara Marr
http://www.marrhaven.com/
The 3x Intn'l award winner - Stalking - over there in my avatar is Marr Haven's.
He's 2.50" long x 1.75" tall
I could never have produced something so small with all of the detail it has without using a very fine micron size.
Polworth Fiber
Linden Lane Farm - MI
Liz Cowdery
http://www.fibersofmichigan.com/
Cormo
Elizabeth Ferraro
Apple Rose Farm
Wrightstown, NJ
www.applerose.com
Cormo was the first fiber I found that had the fineness of Merino, but
shorter and with so much crimp that it practically felts itself. In fact, you can felt
it simply by rubbing it between your fingers.
All 3 of these ladies are excellent to work with, very caring &
sharing. If you contact them to try out their fibers, tell them Bobbie
sent you: I love supporting small, family, farm businesses!
Bobbie
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)And OH, Yes!! Take a look at this!
Someone on another list pointed out that her 12 yo son exclaimed, while
watching The Curse Of The Were-Rabbit movie, that Mrs. Tottington's
ginger hair is NEEDLE FELTED! (Clever boy!!)
WE'VE HIT MAINSTREAM!!!!!!
http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/ … re_rabbit/
index_np.html
I saw a 'The Making of....' film short on Nick Parks' work and they showed a scene as this movie was being staged and filmed. Her 'wig' was about 4' across.
Now that took some time to needle!
Bobbie
Matilda Huggington-beareWow Bobbie, spectacular knowledge. I found that while using sliver I fall asleep while felting. Cant seem to help myself. Then when I found how to use the core wool, my nodding sessions were all but over. Reading your info about core wool now has me worried. As to the mention of moths. The core wool I use is spotlessly clean. At least it looks and feels that way. I've not found any foreign particals. Now if I'm going to have to stop using core then I'm going to go into panic mode. Because Batt and sliver are toooo tedious to felt. And I will never be able to stay awake long enough to get any felting done.
I will be eagerly interested in any info you wish to share. I saw your Polar Bear on another site and was blown over by him. Beautiful sculpting. Matilda 
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)No fears, Matilda!!! Commercially processed wool is perfectly safe!! I was addressing those that 'grow' their own supplies, and someone's prior comment on using grease wool (raw, non-cleaned) just as it came from shearing.
Commercial wool has been carbonized and is 'almost' impervious to critter attraction. The few wools/yarns with lanolin left in, that is meant for moisture resistance, when creating garments fall within this. Most of the stuff that attracts bugs has been eliminated but if you use fiber like this, you'd want to occasionally protect it as you would an expensive sweater - wrapping in plastic and tucking into a freezer for a week or so will not hurt but rather help any article that you suspect might have been a moth attractant. This is more effective than storing in a cedar closet or using the naptha crystals.
The wool sold commercially as 'core' wool is great. It is formulated from a variety of breeds' fiber that are known for their ease of compacting and sold in batt form. It usually will needle faster than batt or roving. There is a vast variety of Cores available. It is a 'put-up' of fiber rather than a description of it's quality. 'Beast' wool also falls into this category. I personally wouldn't use that, as it's basically scrap fiber; full of just about everything that's gone through the mill. And some of what's on the floor.... It does needle "OK" but needles have been broken hitting some of the stuff included in it and it's sometimes hard to get some of the more uncooperative fibers to bind.
The only problem that I find with Core batt is that the breeds are unnamed. As I explained, I have hundreds of different breed samples here for inclusion in the new book; each having its own inherent qualities that make it a better or worse choice for NFing. I explain what they are and why. If you cannot find out which breeds are in the mix, it's impossible to identify ones that work best for your style of NFing: softly, medium, very firm.
The type/breed of fiber will certainly make a difference, as some will certainly never felt firmly no matter how long you needle it. But you have to know the difference in this to be able to match the fiber with the project. That's half the battle won! Additionally, the style of construction (I named mine the Patch© method as opposed to the usually-taught Wrap style) and the number of hours spent needling will all add up to a successful end result.
One last point and a personal pet peeve: (and I'm probably preaching to the choir here....) I read every single NFing text on eBay and websites - the notion that this is an age-old process. Traditional felted fabric is rooted in the mists of time, but somehow that has become mixed up with NFing. The needles & commercial dry felting were certainly not available before the industrial revolution, and this is newer than that. They were developed about 50 years ago and only 2 decades ago put individually into the hands of spinners and wet felters, as an embellishing tool.
Off my soapbox & back to work... Thx for asking!
Bobbie
Kim-Bee BearsHere are two suppliers where you can get needles, roving, etc.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Hi,
When I wrote previously about suppliers not knowing the difference between sheep breeds and the put-up (roving, batt, sliver - SLY ver) it's the same as saying 'a horse won the Kentucky Derby. Tennessee Walking Horse? Morgan? Clydesdale? A huge difference in abilities, based on their physical features. So, NZ Wool means nothing.
Seeds still stuck in it? That's vm - vegetable matter: bits of straw/hay, feed, etc. Does the fiber smell clean? Does it feel clean? If not, I'd clean it again before use, as critters will be attracted to the dirt in it, eating through the fiber to get to the good stuff!
Great, reliable sources of fiber can be found everywhere. There is a huge number of very reliable flock owners that will supply great value, and you'll know exactly what breed the sheep are. The band extending 100s of miles each side of the US/Canadian border from BC/Washington to PEI/Maine, has more suppliers than you'll ever need. Google 'felting and or wool suppliers' and request a sample, which will tell you a wealth of info about how they treat their sheep & the fiber produced. Mention that you're a needle or 'dry' felter. Many still do not realize tghe specific ramifications of this as opposed to traditional wet felting and for spoinning & knitting but some will.
Please write off-list for needle prices, I carry the largest # of sizes/styles and have special pricing for fellow listees! Not sure it's allowed to self-promote so contact me privately.
This is prime shearing time Mar - June and it's the best time to get supplies from shepards! Some of my favorite fiber suppliers are as follows:
On using Roving: the fiber put-up I use is really batt. My NZ Romney kit wool comes from Wilde Yarns in Philadelphia. I don't have room to store inventory so I pass on the names of my sources, as I've found them all to be very reliable.
http://www.wildeyarns.com/history_of_wilde_yarns.htm
Click on Products>Yarns & Fibers>Carded Roving>Natural/Dyed
They also maintain an eBay store, which is handled by Rachel Fawley:
Rachel Fawley (RABF1012@aol.com)
Again, very fast shipping.
Yarns & wools batt available
http://stores.ebay.com/Wilde-Yarns_W0QQ … esstQQtZkm
~~~~~~
The following is from the online class:
Hi all - you have been working with NZ Romney wool in this class. It's
considered a medium grade fiber, neither very soft nor too coarse. But
being this 'size/grade' of fiber, it's next to impossible to make very
tiny creations or to make a totally smooth surface or one that shows no
needle marks. By the same token, using the finer wools & exotics, even
NFing these as firmly as possible, they'll never be a 'hard' as Romney
will get.
There are other choices and I'd like to share these with you. My Polar
Bear kits include a packet of Cormo wool, to give customers the
opportunity to experience another type of fiber that has proven how &
why certain fibers work better than others for particular places and
uses.
These are my 3 favorite fine fibers and the 3 shepherds I order from. Their
wool is very clean, and reasonably priced.
If I had to rate them in very detailed gradings, the 1st is 'thicker'
(a relative term for micron comparison amongst these 3).
Polworth is second and
Cormo has the smallest micron size.
Cormo is also the one that can easily be
over-worked/over-needled so I'd advise you to try both or one of the
others first.
Merino x Rambouillet fiber (Ram - Bow - LAY)
Marr Haven Farms - MI
Barbara Marr
http://www.marrhaven.com/
Polworth Fiber
Linden Lane Farm - MI
Liz Cowdery
http://www.fibersofmichigan.com/
Cormo
Elizabeth Ferraro
Apple Rose Farm
Wrightstown, NJ
www.applerose.com
Cormo was the first fiber I found that had the fineness of merino, but shorter so more easily worked, with
so much crimp that it practically felts itself. In fact, you can felt
it simply by rubbing it between your fingers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a recent post from Elizabeth on a wool group list:
"I love Cormo batts or Cormo roving for felting either dry felting or wet
felting. I just returned from Felters' Fling in MA where I had classes
with Chad Hagen in Hat Making and Pat Spark in felting use roving the way she
water color paints. We learned many many new techniques in an exciting week".
Cormo roving does everything that Merino does, but is a shorter fiber, making it easier to work into miniature sculptures. It is strong, soft, has excellent memory and makes great wall hangings, wearables etc. It is also loved by hand spinners; being a 'fine' fiber - it's very soft & non-itchy against the skin.
Elizabeth raises Cormo Sheep and has her current shearing of Cormo fleeces as well as batts and roving for sale
on her site. You can also learn more about the sheep.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All 3 of these ladies are excellent to work with, very caring &
sharing. If you contact them to try out their fibers, tell them Bobbie
sent you: I love supporting small, family, farm businesses!
Hope there aren't too many typos here. I've been away for a week and just had to click out this Reply before heading out for or appt with the tax accountant.
Bobbie
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS).... and if you don't believe how much difference there is in fibers, I'll point out that my 'Stalking' Polar Bear in the photo to the left is of Marr Haven fiber. It won a TOBY nomination and the Canadian ACE & TITA Awards. It's nearly impossible to get that much detail into a 2" long sculpture without using approrpriate fibers.
B
Flying Fur StudiosBobbie, I've just learned soo much.
I'm trying to felt a dragon right now, and I'm using roving. Smooth colored roving. I love the colors I can get it in, but the fuzzies are making me crazy. Problem is, I bought so much of the stuff I haven't had a change to try anything else. I know some of the more raw 'core' wool Sculpts very nicely, I just can't find good colors.
Thanks for typing all that out Bobbie....
Sophie Z'OursI am so happy I have found that thread!
I asked my sister in law to contact a friend of hers about his sheeps, to know whether he could sell me some wool for my felting!
I have never tried felting yet, and i think i will find lots of infos in that threads once i am ready to begin!
Beary hugs,
Sophie.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)....duh... SO sorry about re-posting info on the same materials!
If I'd taken the time to scan the previous page, I'd've seen that I'd already written most of it.
Bobbie
