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All Bear Jun 6, 2007

I have a nasty sinking feeling I have recently been taken advantage of with regard to a bear sale. 

This morning I received a letter from my merchant provider (credit cards) to request documentary proof of a bear's purchase recently made to a customer.  She has purchased from me three times previously over the past year, so when she supplied me with a different credit card for this transaction, I didn't bat an eyelid, not even when she told me that card was still registered to her previous address and would I mind sending it to her current address.  As a helpful bear maker, I sent the bear to her current address once the payment had been authorised, exactly as she asked me to, because all three previous transactions over the past few months had given me no reason not to trust her.

Now I am facing a chargeback for almost £300 from my bank account and I realise that I can't supply any evidence that the card number she gave me to use for this bear payment, relates to the address she supplied me with.  To be honest, I'm not even certain the card was in her name.  I know full well she will have received the bear by now as I posted it over a month ago and have not received any queries from her over its delivery, so I am sure it arrived at the address she asked me to send it to.

To be frank, I took this card payment purely on the basis of a card number and expiry date given to me by a customer I thought I trusted. So very careless of me - but I doubt very much I'm the only bear maker ever to have made that mistake.  I just hope I am the only one who has been clobbered by my carelessness.

So, I am left without the bear and most probably without a leg to stand on.  The card company will no doubt relieve me of the payment and that will cause me no end of financial heartache this month.  I feel sick to the pit of my stomach that I have been put in this position by someone I trusted.

So my word of warning to those of you who accept credit card payments direct is this:

Make certain you get the card holder's name.
Get the security code checked when you call for authorisation and don't under any circumstances accept the payment if the code doesn't tally with the card number and expiry.
Ensure you take down the address the card is registered to and refuse to send to any other address ... EVEN if you have dealt with your customer on previous occasions.
Keep proof of posting and if possible, use a 'signed for' delivery serivce.

Finally, trust your instincts.  When I took this payment I remember having a slight doubt about it, which I brushed off, telling myself not to be so silly ... I won't be doing that again, it's a very costly mistake.

I don't know where this will leave me with my merchant company, so I have that to worry about too.  As yet, I haven't mentioned the customer's name because I am waiting to hear back from her to see if this is something that can be fixed and if it was an innocent mistake on her part.  However, BIG HOWEVER, if I end up being penalised as a result of her actions, you can bet your bottom dollar I will be shouting her name loud and clear throughout the bear-making industry, so that hopefully she won't get away with this a second time.

My apologies if this offends anyone, but we bear makers are trusting souls and put our hearts into making our bears to give pleasure to those who wish to purchase them.  We really don't deserve to be shafted by unscrupulous and greedy 'collectors' who have eyes bigger than their purses will allow them.  I hope you understand how hurtful this situation is and will bear with my direct words on this subject.

Laura Lynn Banner SponsorJun 6, 2007

OH PAULA!!!!!! I am SO sorry!!  I hope it works out for you in the end.... but if it doesn't I don't blame you... and will APPRECIATE knowing... who this person is.

Daphne Jun 6, 2007

Oh, no Paula!
It's sucks to be punished for being an honest and trusting soul!

My merchant account (through my bank) doesn't ask for the security code, cardholder's name or address when I call in to the automated thing for an approval. I'm often feeling a little uncertain about the safety of this lack of security to the merchant (and the card holder for that matter!)

I'm set up to accept credit cards through paypal with the business account I have through them but I've never used their service. Think I might give that some more serious thought!

Thanks for the heads up and do keep us updated!

:hug:  Daphne

All Bear Jun 6, 2007

Thanks for your support girls, I really appreciate it.   

I'm very worried that this card may have been used without the owner's permission ... yes, my fear is that the collector perhaps (and at the moment I really am just guessing) didn't use her own credit card; after all, if she had, she would have recognised the payment on her credit card, right?  So, I'm thinking this card may well be someone else's card, registered to someone else's address, maybe an ex-partner, or ... well, I'm wondering if it could be a stolen card and the owner received their statement and questioned a transaction they have no knowledge of.  I really can't see any other reason why the credit card company would have been asked to look into the transaction otherwise.  It wouldn't make any sense.

Ellen I'm so sorry you were caught too.  The bear world is pretty small, often makers do share customers ... it may be possible that we have both been unlucky with the same person.  It's sad to think there could be more than one unscrupulous person out there.  I feel so shaken by this, I really can't face working on my bears today.

Like you Daphne, I find there is only limited protection when I call through with to authorise a card.  The overseas addresses don't get checked and you can get authorisation without the security code too.  As you say, it's uneasy and often makes the merchant have to take decisions about a customer without any real guarantee of protection.  This has certainly made me very nervous about the system even though I've been using it for about a decade.

momanimallover Jun 6, 2007

how awful!! sometimes I feel being a good and trusting person doesn't do us any good but it is such a big part of our soul! What comes around goes around :hug:

cherylbruinwerks Jun 6, 2007

I'm so sorry this happened to you Paula! Especially a customer that has been legit in the past - chances are, we all would have done just what you did. A learning experience, although an expensive one.
:hug:  :hug: 's for you!

Cheryl

Marlys Jun 6, 2007

Oh, Paula, I'm so sorry about this situation. Your bears are so wonderful; I'm sure you're heartbroken over this.

I just can't imagine how people come up with these schemes. It would never occur to me to try to scam someone. I've learned a lot about ebay from TT. Sometimes it seems wonderful and I think, maybe I should try it. Then the next day something like this happens. And, like all of you, I would no doubt trust that the bidder was serious and sincere aqbout her bid.

I'm also amazed by those of you who have a closed auction and then have trouble contacting your bidder. Of course, I understand instances of being unable to use the computer or other problems that might distract a person, but I just don't understand people bidding if they don't intend to go through with the purchase.

I hope this works out for you, Paula...and I don't blame you for wanting to get this person's name out.

All Bear Jun 6, 2007

Oh, I should point out that this transaction wasn't anything to do with Ebay.  I have a merchant account and this purchase was made by paying me direct via mail order with a credit card.

Thank you so much for the hugs everyone, they've helped a lot!

Michelle Helen Jun 6, 2007

Dear Paula: What a horrible experience. I hope you called the police to report this. You should get your bear back and this customer's action should be investigated and prosecuted if found to be involved in something fraudulent. Don't be shy...start dialing....

If this person is in another company, call your credit card company to find out how to report this to get an investigation going in her area. Even though your credit card is not the issue there they may have advice for you to follow up on this type of case. You do have the address you sent the bear. So maybe contacting the police in the town where you sent the bear.  There has got to be a course of action on things like this…

chrissibrinkley Jun 6, 2007

UGH!  Paula, I'm so sorry that you've been placed in this situation.  How horrid for you to have to go through!!!

This is where I start having questions.....about credit cards. I've never done a show before....ever. And I've got one coming up in the fall. I still have to figure out what I'm doing for cc processing....services, etc.  Now I'm a little concerned about fraudulent card usage.
When you do a show and you take a credit card and you wait to process it, like many artists have said they do (due to lack of phone access for processing).... and you have no idea if that buyer was indeed the person on the card or if the card has been reported stolen, etc....well, what do you do??? 
Is it absurd at this point (with all of the scams and horrid con artists in the world) to ask for a second form of ID with a credit card at a show??  Can we ask for a Driver's License, just like all retailers do for a check???  I'd of course phrase it in a positive way, maybe  "Protecting my collectors and myself from fraud is really important to me, so I ask to see a driver's license or second form of ID with check and credit card purchases."  ???????  Yes...no????
I know we all want to be warm and fuzzy...but we can still be warm and fuzzy and protect ourselves right?? Or is the chance of this happening so small that no one would want to upset a potential buyer by even asking for another form of ID ?????  I'm sure you Paula never thought this would happen to you.....what do we do?

:hug:
~Chrissi

thumperantiques Jun 6, 2007

Paula,
      Your situation makes me feel sick - how can a previous customer do something like that, knowingly it seems.  I hope you can get it straightened out.  I think I would tell her upfront that if she doesn't correct the problem, you will be releasing her name to other bear artists, to protect them - that might just get your money.   I understand your willingness to please your customer, especially one that had purchased from you previously.
       I did craft shows for almost 25 years and took cheques and visa payments from virtual strangers, but amazingly I had no problems at all.  I always felt the type of people that went to art shows and bought hand made pieces, were not the type to do shady things, but things have changed in the past ten years, I think.
      I did have one friend at the craft show who was issued a bad cheque for over $100.00.  This person refused to make good for the money, so my friend took photocopies of the cheque in an enlarged size with her name and address as well and a large WARNING at the top.   She handed them to other exhibitors, the following year.  Everyone posted it on the wall of their booth, so all the customers could see who it was.  This lady used to come to the show with a large group of friends, so the intention was to embarass her if nothing else, when her friends noticed the warning posted on the walls.  Eventually, my friend did get her money, so someone must have told her about it. 
      Good luck and keep up posted!

                               hugs,

                               Brenda

kallie214 Jun 6, 2007

I think we all would have done what you did Paula. You had no reason to doubt the address having worked with her a few times before. I know I wouldn't have given it a second thought...recently I had a new buyer pay for a bear and ask me to send it to a "friends" address. I was leary of it, so I did a google search for the "friends" address to make sure the name and address matched up...it did and all went well, but I was definately uneasy about the situtaion. I made sure I did delivery confirmation on the package to cover myself.

I do hope this is all some sort of mix up and things will work out for you in the end.

Best of luck,

Kim

burlisonbears Jun 6, 2007

Ugg.....so sorry to hear this. I have had my own share of troubles in the last couple weeks with someone I thought to be a good customer....receiving no payment from her and having all my emails ignored. And then I find out she had done the same thing a month before to another ebay seller. What the hell? I just don't understand why she bids if she can't pay...and then how hard is it to just respond to an email and let the seller know you're sorry you bid when you don't have the money. (Sorry I had to vent here... )

About the credit card dilemma...I've always feared something like that so I've never accepted credit card payments....only Paypal because I trust its safety. And Paypal has let me know when there are problems with a person's payment so I know not to mail the bear to them until the problem is resolved.

-Eliza

samanthapotter Jun 6, 2007

What a pain!

I guess the best you can hope for at the moment is that it is a genuine mistake, and that it will all be resolved.  I would certainly have trusted someone if they had bought bears from me before.  I always seem to give people the benefit of the doubt, which I guess could land me in trouble in the future!

If your money does get taken and you don't hear from the collector, surely there is something you could do, because she has stolen from you.  You should get that bear back at least!!

Not much any of us can do to help really except for crossing fingers and toes that it will all work out ok in the end!! :hug:

DebbieD Jun 6, 2007

Please keep in mind that this sort of thing doesn't just happen because you're a bearmaker....it happens in all realms where you do business, via credit card or check. 

I'm truly sorry that you've been stuck in such a position, though, and from a former good customer nonetheless!!      I think Michelle's right in this scenario, though.  You've got every right to want your bear (merchandise) back, or payment, and you shouldn't have to be penalized for this!  I should think the police, or at the very least the credit card company would want to be investigating this.  Credit cards only work on faith, and if that faith is questioned, they begin to have troubles with their own business. 

:hug: MANY thanks for the warning, and head's up because so many of us are completely and utterly trusting....and hindsight is always 20/20.   

dusty attic Jun 6, 2007

Paula , I am so sorry to hear you are going through this, some people are just terrible, how do they sleep at night???.Do you have this persons phone number or could you find it if you have their address, Perhaps you could ring them to see what is going on, and say you will call the police if it is not sorted out somehow, I don't know just a sugestion.
Big hugs to you, hope things work out for you, please keep us posted with whats happening. :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:

matilda Jun 7, 2007

OH Paula how absolutely dreadful. I felt that horrid dread in the pit of my stomach while reading your post. :hug: 
It is hightened more by the fact that so much time care joy and luv goes into each of your bears.
To me it would feel like my baby's been kidnapped. I certainly hope you have put this in the hands of the police.
It is a POLICE matter!!! It is FRAUD and THEFT and more importantly BEARNAPPING!! GO GET HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hugs Wendy

Reading back through your posts I realised that credit card fraud is a serious  FEDERAL offense in Australia.
You must take this far more seriously and really make a big todo and stink about it Paula with the Police and federal authorities and share info with Ellen. And ELLEN!! you should be making a huge stink as well!!!!!!!!!!!
ACTUALLY everyone who has been treated fraudulently should make a big stink about it.
Give it to the TV stations to go and investigate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gail Jun 7, 2007

Hi Paula
I am so sorry this has happened to you and I hope it will be resolved to your benefit.Do you have a limit on how much can be charged on your card per purchase before you have to call the company for authorization? In Canada I had a floor limit of 75.00- anything worth more than that I had to call in the card number for authorization and an authorization number. If I did not do this and the sale was like yours I would only be covered for the 75.00 floor limit which the credit card company would reimburse me for. If this is the case for you, you should be able to recover some of the money from the credit card company.
As an aside to this on the back of my credit card I have not signed it but have written in - ask to see identification. This would be of no use for a telephone transaction but might stop a purchase from being charged if the card was stolen and presented for a purchase
I had a retailer who had my bears on consignment, went out of business and didn't tell me. I found out, asked for the bears back but was short changed 8 bears which they had sold but not paid me for. To make a long story short I took them to small claims court and won. It was a lot of work for me and just another case of what today seems to be the case of the person who has been wronged having to prove that the product in question was rightfully theirs in the first place. Fortunately I also had a written contract with them and signed consignment sheets listing all of the bears. I have not done consignment since
Hugs
Gail

bearlyart Jun 7, 2007

I am so sorry you experienced this Paula!  I am another who tends to be very trusting, I have been lucky so far with the bear business but am bound to get wronged eventually.  We do have to submit a matching billing address with all  credit card transactions on our machine, which is some level of protection.  I'd actually rather have one that also accepted the security code, just to be that much more safe!  Debbie is right, business is business unfortunately, and even bearmakers get mired in bad business dealings from time to time.

Best wishes,
Kelly

Jodi Moisan Jun 7, 2007

I'm curious, can everyone around the world use paypal? I am thinking it might be wise anymore to say I will only accept paypal.
When I owned my toy store, I was told I had to get the persons drivers Licenses ID number on checks or they were basically not worth anything and charge cards I just needed to get approval thru the credit card company. I would be sick to have this happen to me , I am sending you a great big  :hug:  I am really hoping this is all a mistake and this person will be a stand up person. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

:hug:
Jodi

All Bear Jun 7, 2007

Thanks for all your help everyone, I've read all your posts very carefully and as some of you say, if this proves to be what I think it is, sadly there is no other word for it than theft.  I'm told by a good friend that it is classed as 'wire fraud' in the States and it is a serious offence. 

I have written to my credit card company including all the documentation I have available to supply to back up how the transaction came about and where I posted the goods.  That information includes several emails from the customer confirming her order, but unfortunately none containing the card details she supplied me with because I deleted those from my pc to protect her security.  I don't think the information I have available to send to the merchant company will protect me from the chargeback, but at least it will give the card company her contact details and they will know exactly who has been using the card fraudently.

I also took the time to write to my customer yesterday, asking her very politely if she knew any reason why this situation with the merchant company would arise and requesting that she respond by return with confirmation of the card's registered address and the name as it appeared on the card.  I said I was sure she would understand how important it was to my business that I sort this matter out.  So far I haven't heard back from her.  Hopefully she will contact me today.

I think my only other option is to notify her local police and give her details to them, if my merchant company do confirm that the transaction was fraudulent.

On a personal note, it's truthful to tell you I feel very hurt and frustrated by this.  It has made me question what I do for my living and whether indeed it is worth carrying on.  That may seem an extreme reaction to a single bad experience, but earning money from bear making is so very hard and when something like this happens, it's hard to keep faith in what I have chosen to do.

NB: The credit card facility I pay for entitles me to phone for authorisation on every transaction.  Because of the retail value of my bears, I always authorise credit payments.  So, in this instance the card number and expiry date were sufficient for me to gain authorisation on the automated service for a 'customer not present' transaction.  Unfortunately that authorisation merely tells me there are funds available on the card for the payment at the time of authorisation, it doesn't guarantee the payment in any way.  As I understand things, it is the merchant's (ie me) responsibility to ensure the transaction is 'safe' with regard to collecting all the relevant information to support their customer's purchase.

Jellybelly Bears Jun 7, 2007

Ughhh Paula....I'm sorry too  :hug: I think it stings more in our line of work becuase we have a closeness with our collectors that normal business doesn't...we want our bears to go to loving homes and emotion, warmth and realism go into it... Its it shock when it isn't and we're faced with stark reality and hurt...
I wonder if it could be an x's card?  Perfect payback.....

Carolyn Green Jun 7, 2007

I am so sorry Paula and really hope that your customer will come to her senses and make this transaction
right for you.
Hard to believe that having bought some of your bears before, that she could do this.
Best of luck that the outcome will be a good one.

Hugs
Carolyn
:hug: 

kate Jun 7, 2007

Oh Paula,
I've long admired and admired and admired your gorgeous creations.  I just don't know what to say in way of consolation.  P-l-e-a-s-e, just let it be some sort of awful misunderstanding.
Thinking of you,
Bear hugs
K.

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorJun 7, 2007

Such a shame, Paula, that this happened.  I do hope it gets resolved quickly and to your benefit, my friend.   :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug: