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I don't have a problem with animals being part of the food chain..I am not a vegetarian. However I do believe if we do eat animals we have to treat them with respect. That means humane methods of slaughter..and most important of all that their lives are not spent in some kind of torturous meat factory being fed chemicals. I travel for miles to buy from butcher who knows which farm each beast was raised on, every egg he sells comes from hens that scratch around a yard every day..and I am not the only one...he has a queue out the door and round the corner every week, for everything he sells, meat, eggs , honey, cheese..all from local farms. I think people like him are the future of getting back to a good diet, supporting local farmers, growers and producers of great organic food ..and Tesco...who needs them!!! They should go and boil themselves with the turtles!!!
'Bear' Bottoms OriginalsI have to agree with Jenny and Catherine as well (Not saying they agree with ME, but I mean being a 'meat eater' and being aware of lobster and crab boiling). It doesn't make it right, but it is a typical thing there. What if Wal Mart didn't sell pork here in the U.S. because some Middle Eastern communities think otherwise? or Beef? There are religions that hail cows as holy creatures and would never eat them. We cringe at things others do, and they cringe at things we do. Unfortunately that's the way of the world. I'm not saying I think it's perfectly OK to do that to a living creature, but it's the way things are. I watched an African Tribe beat a dog (which was a pet of four years and they loved him) over the head with a club and then the village ate it for the village boys' 'coming of age' ceremony. They believed that the dog's courage and faithfulness would be passed onto their sons. Very sad and horrible, but that's what they do every 4 years. I don't know, maybe being raised in an ethnic home (I'm half Vietnamese and no I have never eaten dog nor would I; we have two spoiled dogs living here) has taught me that while people do different and sometines cruel (to me) things, it is just the way the world is. Would you shop at Tesco or Wal Mart if they didn't sell meat or vegetables because they were catering to a distant foreign country's beliefs or feelings?
I still remember going to France when I was 10. There, the grocery stores sell horse. Agk!!! I thought, I loooove horses! but now I realize it's normal there. It doesn't mean I'm OKing it, it means I understand we all don't do the same things.
And if boiling a turtle alive is cruel, you should all see how cows are 'bled out' for slaughter. Pretty graphic. Again, not saying it's right; I know many of you are vegetarians and many for that very reason. I just think that everyone is different and customs are different and the world is different... Maybe not 'right', but different.
And before we talk about how horrible people are for doing it, look at how lions and wolves etc. bring down prey. Dunno if I'd rather be boiled alive and go into shock quickly, or be partially disemboweled and still alive while something began to eat me... or have something smother me to death with their mouth.... 
Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes, I know you're passionate about it and that's great! I'm not trying to condone turtle boiling, please don't get me wrong, but if you look at the world and how we end the lives of just about anything we eat, it's a cruel, cruel world.
Kimberly W.
Diane, I completely understand your absolute disgust...this is just another abhorrent act of cruelty that is happening in most Asian & Middle Eastern countries where there is a complete disregard for animals of any kind, if it moves they eat it and don't care how or what they have to do to kill it..what would you expect they have no respect for any living thing even humans, the Chinese & Indians kill they're own newborn baby girls, why would an animal matter.....it just makes me cry to think that these poor creatures have to suffer like this...where will it end? it's sickening...
Where can we sign the petition...these large supermarket chains need to feel it in the hip pocket that's all they react to..
I don't even want to comment on Kimberley W's post!
LutonI agree that we do live in a cruel world. And animals can be the cruelest killers but for the majority of animals, most only kill to eat and most live in balance and harmony with their enviroment. Plus they are just animals.
I think humans are the only ones who have a great capacity for rational thought and yet practice macabre rituals for killing our food aswell as destroying our enviroment.
Boiling turtles, skinning live animals and hunting creatures to extinction for trophies and hocus pocus medicines that don't work, can only ever have been thought up by us.
Claire
Kim-Bee BearsI am not trying to be nasty and I am not taking sides here but these are the kind of posts that make people NOT want to be on TT... this is suppose to be a friendly bear forum and while it is ok to get off topic and talk about things unrelated to bears, thre are some topics that are really controversial and really can cause people to get hurt feelings....
I have stayed away from TT before for posts which have made me personally uncomfortable and when people get upset from what others say. I was going to just sit back and ignore this topic because I can tell that people are already getting hurt feelings but I felt I had to say something....
'Bear' Bottoms OriginalsI don't even want to comment on Kimberley W's post!
Are you serious right now? I never said that I agreed with it or thought it was right; I'm just not close minded enough to think that the world is sugar coated and nothing bad ever happens. I NEVER once said in my post that I stood behind it, but it DOES happen and that's life!
Let me ask you this: Do you think if a bunch of Middle Easterners (or ANYONE else) outrage and sign petitions about our cruel slaughter of thousands upon thousands of cattle every day that ANY Supermarket is going to stop selling beef? Get real! Or the lobsters, do you think they'll stop selling those? Listen, I'm just saying that what people do half way around the world (even if it IS cruel by our standards) is what THEY do, and I'm SURE there are MANY people who look down on us (wherever we are) for the things we do, too.
And I agree with the comment on trophies, needless killing for furs and things like that, BTW.
Kimberly W.
Oh dear people getting all het up again!!!To be honest I really dont care much about that and happily accept we are all different.The point of outrage in this posting was that Tesco have built a following in this country by representing themselves as a company that care about animal welfare and the environment.They have been able to expand into asian contries because we in Britain have spent a fortune in their stores.It is now obvious they are not concerned with animal welfare or the environment.The selling of live animals in a supermarket is illegal here,taking animals from the wild to sell is also illegal,It has been proven that selling live amphibians causes the spread of horrible diseases through the human population and depletes natural wildlife.It is all explained in the website I added a link to.This isnt a link about being vegetarian it was really about the hypocracy of the western companies who abandon the moral codes they use here to make a buck abroad.Turtles and frogs are a luxury item and are sold througout the region and only add a tiny amount to Tescos takings so they really dont need to sell them.I feel complaceny is the worst thing we can do.I dont agree with a lot of the posts on here am gladdened b the posts from those like minded and also the non veggies who care enough to fnd out what they are eating and where it came from.I dont think it is a case of opinion here but a case of things being morally wrong and I cant be one who just thinks thats the way of the world how sad and go back to whatever I am doing.If this post offended and people get worked up then surely we are adult enough to not get personal about it and accept we are all different.If a couple of people sign the petition on the website I added a link to and the rest of you fall out and disagree with me then too bad its the turtles and frogs that are being boiled alive not us.
Posts: 8,574and I DO NOT use the term lightly-for we all know how to be ladies and we all know how to be tolerant of others
Kimberly W. I appreciate your original post, and believe that sharing our experiences in other countries can be helpful. Many of us in the states have never travelled and therefore do not have a solid concept of the differences that exist in cultures.
But the similarities are even more important.
We all need the basics; food, clothing, shelter, LOVE.
And that's where TT comes in- LOVE.
The Help Advisors do what we do because we love the industry, making our own critters, and obviously, especially if you look at the number of posts, we love you guys.
And you guys are what makes TT work.
We have lost dear friends here at TT because of hurt feelings, riffs, tiffs and unkind things being said in the heat of the moment.
Nettie, I appreciate your alerting the board to TESCO's practises, and to those who brought up the similarities here in the states, I appreciate that too.
But I think it is possible, in the heat of the moment , that some of you misunderstood KimberyW.'s post. There are different cultures and they have different beliefs. She was neither condoning nor condeming, just sharing.
If it is OK for one to share, it is OK for all to share without being chastised or scolded.
Conversely, it is important, when we wade into controversial areas, we remember this:
WORDS HAVE POWER AND WHAT IS ONCE SAID, OR WRITTEN AND READ CANNOT BE UNDONE.
There are no do-overs when a fellow TT's feelings have been hurt. And I know we all try not to hurt any feelings, step on any toes, or be sharp tongued-perhaps that should be sharp fingered in what we write.
Kimmy of Kimbee Bears also had a good point- experience shows that a topic like this can heat up and boil over.
And that is certainly not what the topic originator wanted.
Is it?
I didn't think so- perhaps it is time to change topics, let this one die out, or even the topic originator could delete it , if she chose to....
But above all please, ladies, friends all, be careful with what you type.
Sometimes in our passionate desire to save the world and build a better future we hurt people along the way.
Now just how sensible is this? To hurt friends to save strangers?
My best friend used to tell me
no tilting at windmills, Diane
Referring of course to Don Quixote, who bumbled through life tilting at windmills and trying to save everyone. He had a dream.
Let's focus on making the NOW, here at TT, more pleasant-we can all tilt at our personal windmills off line.
Thank you, ladies, and friends.
I am not deleting this post and I for one am not offended by what anyone says about it.Are we not all grown ups here and do we have to only talk about fluffy subjects.I am not going to apologise for caring and feeling obliged to share.
The whole point was not about being a veggie .I accept not everyone cares to the same degree.I was pointing out a British company was using money earned here to open a business abroad and break our laws and go against what the British allow not anything to do with the chinese or any other countries culture.I am that naive.I am not alone in spreading the word and have many e-mails about it.Many petitions are on the go and Tescos have been coming up with somepretty lame excuses so far.
I find it so amusing that any kind of debate gets so many knickers in a twist.I promise to stick to pink jumpers and candy in the future.
LutonI believe everyones opinions should be respected.
I think we should also be able to talk about more un-fluffy topics too!!
BUT i do think we are all in real danger when we get personal to other TT'ers rather than just putting our thoughts out there.
I think what we are all trying to say whether we eat meat or are veggies is this;
Animals, whether they are pets or reared for the food chain, should lead good lives and then have the right to a Humane death.
Thats all!!!
Hugs
Claire
'Bear' Bottoms OriginalsI agree 100%, and as I said in my post before, I'm not trying to make anyone upset or step on anyone's toes. I don't think it's right; however I know it happens.
Yes, Nettie, I can see your point very clearly. You are right; it is wrong for a company to to do something hypocritical like that and they SHOULD be called out on it.
P.S. This post, however, doesn't seemed to be fueled by the hypocracy of a company, it seems to be fueled by the fact that people are boiling turtles alive.
I just didn't want my case jumped for not 'jumping on the bandwagon' if that makes any sense. I have not taken anything that anyone has said personally; I'm not upset or mad at anyone either! I did feel that if Denise wasn't wanting to comment on my post, then she should have simply not commented instead of saying something that I felt was a little confrontational. Again, I'm not mad, though! and I hope no one else is either.
I do feel bad for the turtles, I feel bad for anything that has to suffer for someone else's 'pleasure'... I just know that things like this are things that happen ALL over the world a million times over for the last many thousand years to some degree.
Kimberly W.
Posts: 1,836That sums it up for me too Claire 
Just one other thought I'm having. Really without her responding the upset here may all be a misunderstanding via perception. Denise may have been overwhelmed with the idea of what was written, and not able to address those thoughts out of the "yuck" factor, never meaning to have her one sentence seem like a negative thing to Kim the person. (I'm not sure, but it could be what happened)
We're all pretty nice to each other and value each other... maybe we can assume the best of each other until otherwise proven. Lots of feelings could be spared publicly and privately if we gave each other that benefit 
:hug:
:hug:
~Chrissi
edit: Kim we were posting at the same time 
I take forever to read and re-read my posts 
