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psichick78 Flying Fur Studios
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,073

I'd like an opinion please.

Twice now I've bought patterns off ebay. One was for a bear a looong time ago, and the other was a pomeranian pattern i bought about 2 months ago. I thought it would be a good learning experience.

Anyway, what these two patterns have in common is that they are both photocopies. Lets say with the pom pattern, it wasn't advertised this was just a photocopy, although as a 'cover' sheet, the seller does say this pattern has no copyrights, but is that fair? I paid $10 for a photocopy. I can't help but feel ripped off, even though I have the pattern and can make the dog. The pattern is in japanese, so good thing I don't need instructions but that would've also been nice to know.

Or, am I just PMS'ing today! LOL :crackup:  :crackup:  :crackup:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :crackup:


Chico, California
Posts: 9,939

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

I've bought photocopied patterns (doll clothes) on eBay before but the auction clearly stated it was a photocopy I would receive.  I think I'd feel ripped off too if the auction didn't disclose this information and I got a piece of smudgy black printer paper for my money!  I'd expect a "real" pattern, in an envelope, printed on tissue or nice paper, if the sales info did not state outright that the pattern was a plain ol' Xerox print.

K Pawz Guest

No Heather you are not PMS'ing it is very wrong!!! Not only did they not disclose everything to you, they are infringing on the original copyright of the patterns designer...I would try to contact the actual designer and let them know that someone is selling photo copies of their pattern illegally!!


matilda Matilda Huggington-beare
Posts: 5,551

Yep its wrong posssum.
I wish we were neighbours then I could show the 'wonderful professional' pattern I got from Lisa Pay.
I am so happy that I plan to buy more. The pattern is a Shnauzer. I just cant wait to give myself time to make him. bear_thumb
Sorry your seller ripped you off. I find it takes the enjoyment out of the critter. :hug:

Stitch SanguineCreations
Posts: 395

It's wrong, selling someone elses pattern is stealing, isn't? Also not to say it's in a foreign language is wrong.

Gail Bear With Me Enterprises
Posts: 1,319

Hi Heather
I bought the same Pom pattern. The pattern was obtained in Thailand and it says they are not copyrighted provided they are not commercially sold????? What's with this line of reasoning???
I too was surprised to see it was a photocopy and nowhere on the sheets does it indicate who the actual artist is. I have seen books on e-bay for sale that are patterns for dogs and the instructions are in Japanese. I wonder if it is out of that book? My instructions had been translated fro Japanese into English

psichick78 Flying Fur Studios
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,073

Gail, I think the same thing. The pattern is from those Japanese books!

I guess she just forgot to add the instructions in mine. Gee, lucky me, and incomplete photocopy! LOL

Oh well. Did you make the dog yet Gail? I haven't yet, still haven't found mohair for it yet.

See, and that's the bad thing about ebay, I was scared to leave her neg. feedback for fear of retaliation, and that bothers me. I think people should know.

bearhug07 Strange Bears
Posts: 444

If you really want to feel ripped the original artist!!  I saw one of my patterns for sale on Ebay and they did say it was a photocopy. I emailed the seller and stated that they COULD NOT sell photocopies of my pattern. No amswer and Ebay took no action when I emailed them!!

I was more than annoyed let me tell you!!! bear_sad  bear_sad  bear_angry  bear_angry

Kathleen Pa
Posts: 626

I think that pattern is from a japanese book, I ordered the book, I have'nt received it yet  but I remember there being a pom pattern.  I have seen patterns for sale on ebay that state they are a photocopy, not the original, and passed on them.  I think it is wrong to not include that info in the listing.  If I paid $28.00 for the book with many original patterns and you paid $10.00 for a photocopy, someone is making alot of money off of photocopies!!


doodlebears Doodlebears
Posts: 7,414

doodlebears Celebration Ambassador

I make my own patterns at home and sell the through Ebay as one of my outlets. I do photocopy them and so anyone buying one of my pattern could wonder if I had copied it and resold it on Ebay. A lot of patterns that friends make are made at home on their computer so how to distinguish the originals from the copies, I don't know. With all the available technology that we can pop into any computer store and buy will allow anyone to produce originals and sadly copies of patterns. I don't know how this can be stopped. I too bought six patterns for my niece along with some mohair to get her started in bear making. Two of the patterns were photo copies and the other four had photographs stuck to the front page of the pattern. Even the four with the photographs on could have easily been reproduced at home. The only way we can be sure of getting an original and giving the proceeds to the designing artist is to buy directly from them. This sounds good, however people are always out for a bargain so they will always buy from Ebay whilst it is available.

Hugs Jane.  bear_flower

rkr4cds Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)
suburban Chicago
Posts: 2,044

A lot of patterns that friends make are made at home on their computer so how to distinguish the originals from the copies, I don't know.

As I do, in initially them in an obscure spot. In a different ink - like blue - to distinguish it from the black it's printed with.

If there's ever a questtion, they'd have to show me/tell me where my initials are. Suspicious me: I started that after seeing my patts being sold as originals 4 years ago.

I'm in my 3rd full kit line since the mid 90s. I've unfortunately had to spend a lot of time poring over the legalese on this very issue (which I've been dealing with for 2 years tomorrow, being at the center of a hotly contested trademark infringement case at the US Patent & TM Office.)

Here's the ruling on First Use, meaning ONLY the person who first bought an original design from  the author.

The first-sale doctrine is a limitation upon copyright that was
recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1908 and subsequently
codified in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109. The doctrine
of first sale allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e. sell or give
away) a particular, lawfully made and obtained copy of the protected work without
permission once it has been obtained. That means the distribution
rights of a copyright holder end on THAT PARTICULAR COPY once the
copy has been sold to them.

§ 109. Limitations on exclusive rights: Effect of transfer of
particular copy or phonorecord40

(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106(3), the owner of a
particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any
person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority
of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the
possession of THAT copy or phonorecord.

(Emphasis is mine)

The first purchaser may sell, swap, give, share ONLY THE ORIGINAL COPY, NOT COPIES and be 100% within the law.

If you find anyone doing this, whether or not it's your pattern, for the protection afforded all of us, you can do what I do: send a copy of that PTO statement. When I've seen them on eBay and write, they've removed the listing themselves.

What they may NOT do is make copies for sale or sell the pattern as if it is their own work.

rkr4cds Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)
suburban Chicago
Posts: 2,044

Forgot to add: I attended a conference in Phoenix put on by the PTO, addressing this very thing. (Got the bumper stickers to prove it!!) They were using it to show the far flung worldwide problem: the copies of every type of goods coming out of Asia.
What is Intellectual Property?

Why Protect Intellectual Property?

How Can I Protect My Intellectual Property?

Who Can Help Me Protect My Intellectual Property?

The PTO used to call this The Garage Sale Effect, now it's called The eBay Effect............

K Pawz Guest

I bought the book just recently I think you guys are talking about, is the Pom open mouthed??? I haven't even attempted to try it, with the language barrier problem, not to mention that the proportions are not very good for the dogs, so it would take me some time to revamp the patterns......Not that it helps any, as it is in Japanese as well, but maybe the ISBN # might help track down the author so that she/he can be made aware of the copying patterns issue ISBN4-579-10946-5


psichick78 Flying Fur Studios
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,073

Thanks Krista, although this pom isnt open mouthed so I guess it's not the same. Too bad, I really want to track down the original creator. Maybe I'll ask the seller! LOL

I'm also curious about this pattern, I'm scared that I'll make it and it won't look like the picture. The proportions are quite off I Think.

Live and learn I suppose.....

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