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HeatherM Sep 30, 2008

Hello all 

I am new to Teddy Talk and I was wondering if it's permitted to advertise resell items? I currently have some beautiful works on eBay, all in new condition, and from well known artists. I would love to get the word out!

I belong to a doll forum as well and we list OOAK resell items right along with the artist's works for sale.

Hope this is allowed here in one of the forums... Please help!

The link to my items is http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/aitrisdolls

Is this OK here?  :redface:

Hugs,
Heather

rkr4cds Sep 30, 2008

Well, first - WELCOME!

We discuss EVERYTHING on TT!  And I don't recall this one ever coming up before ... but it's a pretty well established fact that there is no secondary market on eBay for 'most' artist bears. Not to say never, because I have seen Pat Murphy & Heidi Steiner work go as high as original prices, but for some reason, and you'll probably receive as many reasons as replies, but sellers think that they'll recoup their investment and it just isn't so.

I have no answer. I just know that in Artist Bears, it's best to buy only what appeals to you, as it's more than likely to be yours and your family's for life.

Does anyone else wish to venture forth with some answers here?

rkr4cds Sep 30, 2008

I'd like to add a few more points to my reply:
Often, when our work is being resold, the collectors take their own images to post.

Needless to say they often have not developed their photography skills to the same degree that we have found to necessary to do.

We hate to see our work poorly lit, slouched over in a distracting setting and no longer representing 'Artist' quality work.

The pieces themselves have sometimes have not been kept in the pristine conditions that he collectors claim they have displayed them in, as we know what they looked like when they left our hands. Obviously, we don't want others to see this as a true representation of our work!

Your auctions, on the other hand, are NONE of these. They look great.
Perhaps you contacted the artists directly to ask the artists if you could use their original images: that has been done and many are happy to share, as their work will look good to the collectors' eyes, even if they get nothing out of it other than Good Will and continued good-looking work shown to collectors. Some do not share; nor are they obliged to.

Even with good-looking images, for some reason, unfathomable to me (who recognizes by their 'Look' that these secondary artist pieces truly are the work of the artists) I have no idea why they aren't snapped up at bargain prices, and I hate to break your heart but.......   no one has yet come up with a sure fire technique into the secondary market...

Bobbie

Daphne Sep 30, 2008

Hi Heather,

We have a Teddy Bears & Other Friends For Sale section here which you'll find on the index page. If you read the rules first you'll see the first section says:

RULES
Our TEDDY BEARS & OTHER FRIENDS forum is a free sales and promotion forum for your newest handcrafted creations. We hope to support and champion the teddy bear community by showcasing -- in one convenient location -- the newest, furriest handcrafted creations available from a worldwide sampling of creators.  We hope TEDDY BEARS & OTHER FRIENDS will draw a broad, international audience to view, admire... and adopt these creations.

In keeping with our wish to support the industry via the individual artisan, we ask that retailers please refrain from listing inventory. We also request that you not list mass-produced, manufactured, orphan/secondary market/used items, collections, patterns, supplies or other items not appropriate for this forum. We reserve the right to remove any listing without notification.

I think this will answer your question. :rose:

There is no other place here for listing resale items. Your post above is the only way to let us know about them.

rkr4cds Sep 30, 2008

Oh Daphne, you are so right - I myself have not read that  SO SORRY!!! - and I would NOT have promoted posting a sales link.

But as a general topic, is that not a phenom and can that be cooly discussed?

I bow to your authority of course. If this can be discussed I'd welcome the dialoging because I've had many conversations over the years w/artists and none of us ever had any answers. No listings; just a frank discussion

hgs - b

Daphne Sep 30, 2008

Oh, Bobbie - I'm NO authority here... just happen to recall this coming up once before and knew there were some pretty straight forward rules about posting items for sale.

I agree it would be an interesting topic for general conversation though. It's a discussion I've had with many artists and I think it's been touched on a time or two here when artists have discovered their bears up for rehoming on eBay. I'd be very concerned with how my work was represented, photos, description and actual condition. Even though someone else has owned it, it's still got my name on it and I wouldn't want my work misrepresented or the new owner to find it in poor condition because of the care it received by its previous owner. I like to think that the majority of bear collectors care enough about their collection to take proper care of their investments but you never know. I have not personally experienced finding my bears for sale on the secondary market so can only imagine how I'd feel about it.

I have purchased bears on the secondary market and only look for the deals and most times I KNOW the seller isn't getting back what they originally paid with the exception of some well known retired artist pieces of course.

Anyway, as far as posting her items for sale, I don't think Heather can do it given what the rules say - though TT admin should determine that -  but she's definitely hit a sensitive topic for conversation.

greatwon2 Sep 30, 2008

usually i dont comment on these sorts of topics as A) i dont have the experience and B) i dont like inadvertantly saying the wrong thing and upsetting anyone, but i had a few thoughts/questions on this topic...i was wondering why do people get upset about collectors reselling their collection, or even people that buy with the aim of reselling, i really cant understand it, i would think it should come down to the current owners personal choice  id be interested to hear peoples opinion on this

the crappy pictures part i do understand ...it can reflect badly on what people think of when they think of an artist...one thing to note here tho is that most of the time a crappy picture looks just like one and most people can tell the differance   

i also find it interesting that bears dont keep their value given how they are marketed as heirlooms and collectables...its really not something id ever given any thought to as im only a hobbiest , im not a selling artist or a collector...but i would of thought given the time and expence that goes into a artist bear collection , that there was something other than just their aesthetic qualitys.

im just curious about all this ...like i said id never thought about it all before  so if ive said something that can be interprated in more than one way...i meant the good way  :crackup:

Daphne Sep 30, 2008

I argee... wouldn't you think their value would increase? The resale value could just be down because of our economic situation. They are marketed as heirlooms (those made with mohair or from a loved one's fur coat, quilt, etc.) because of the sentimental value and, in the case of mohair bears, their long life because of quality material. Collectibles don't always increase in value. ANYTHING can be a collectible. I'm not sure value has anything to do with it to be a collectible, does it?

As for reselling bears. I personally don't see anything wrong with it... tastes change, financial situations change, people downsize or want to make room for new bears... I've added some very special bears to my collection because someone has decided to part with a bear. For some artists bear making is strictly a business. For others those bears have the artist's heart and soul poured into them and seeing one up on eBay is like seeing their child being put up for adoption and it can be a little heart wrenching.

You are right, a crappy picture looks like a crappy picture. But then someone who has never seen that artist's work before is not going to see the true quality and look of that artist. And on ebay a crappy picture could result in the bear not selling which I suppose could make that artist's work seem undesireable. (There is a huge psychological aspect to selling/buying in eBay!) Or the piece may sell for a lot less than it would have had the photos been better. This again reflects on that artist and their worth. What ever that piece sells for often sets the average resale price for that artist's work going forward.

It's just not the same as getting tired of your CD collection and putting it up for auction on eBay. :crackup: 

greatwon2 Sep 30, 2008

thanks daphne  that has actually sorted out a few things in my mind ... it doesnt happen often so it was a moment worth documenting  :crackup:

HeatherM Sep 30, 2008

WOW! Thanks so much for your view points and for all the information!... As well as your welcomes of course  :hug:  :hug:  :hug: I've gotten to know many of the artists here after years of collecting and have made some really good friends 

I can only speak as a collector. I am in fact an artist but not a teddy bear artist and I've never shown work on this site....
Reselling among collectors is not an unusual thing... In fact because of the high prices some pieces command reselling has become very common. In the art doll world it is quite common. Sometimes the reasons are financial (in order to continue collecting something has to go), other times it is a matter of just not bonding completely with the piece (the piece in person is always a different experience than in pictures) and sometimes ones tastes just change or develop over time. My worst fear is that the artist takes it personally, which I understand of course but which is never my intention    As an artist myself I am very sensitive to that issue. But in reality it just goes to show how many BEAUTIFUL and WONDERFUL works are being created!... The temptation is TOO MUCH some times!!  In all honesty I think the buying and selling has helped in commanding these higher prices which then benefits the artist. From my own personal experience I would not have bid as high on an item had it not been for a piece I just sold. It is very true however that resell items seem to always go for MUCH LESS than the original price, regardless of condition or how recent the piece is.  I am very proud of my collection but cringe at the money I've lost in resells    But it's a learning experience... I've become much more selective in what I buy even though the temptation is always there 

I really appreciate everyone's input and kindness in regards to these issues.

Thanks so much!!!  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:   

Heather

edie Sep 30, 2008

Welcome Heather! You have started an interesting discussion - even though that didnt' seem to be your original intent! 
I have no problem with collectors reselling my bears - I've been  a collector of antique dolls and bears for years and often resell some of them as my tastes change or if I have bought them specifically to resell as I knew I could a make a profit on them - which then gets turned into buying  a different doll or bear that I want for my collection. I don't really see artist bears as being much different - in that the reasons for people selling them would quite often be the same. It really does seem though that generally artist bears and dolls and modern manufactured collector dolls and bears (with some exceptions) do not increase in value and often go for less than originally. I don't know if this is because the artists style has changed and the earlier work is seen as not as good??? Or if people are worried that the conditon won't be what it should be - like if it has been in a smoking home, or sat in sunlight, or changes made to the bear. That has happened to me and is the only situation I can think of where I would be unhappy about someone reselling one of my bears. The bear that comes to mind was one that the seller had removed my accessories from and made it look very different. Now if she had sold it and not said it was my bear then that wouldn't have mattered but she was trying to get a sale using my name and yet what she was selling was no longer fully my creation.

White Forest Sep 30, 2008

Hi Heather!

I hope you are doing well.  It's good to see you on TT! 

Hugs,
Erin

bearbottombears Sep 30, 2008

Welcome Heather..
you have opened an interesting discussion for sure.  I like to think of myself as and ARTIST, one who designs and creates a piece of work for sale. As an artist I can only hope that others would covet my last sold piece and be willing to pay even more than the original buyer...OH MY WE CAN DREAM.  This is the way it works in just about every other type of FINE art.  Our local TB Artist Guild was invited to put on a show at our Government Art Gallery...Talk about walking around with a big head for a few weeks... I felt like a true artist. 
I agree with one of the earlier comments in this thread.  I think the current economy has a lot to do with buying and selling of artwork and collectibles. (An antique dealer friend of mine tells me that people seem to be INVESTING in art more than collectibles.Comic books and matchbook covers are collectibles, as are antique teddy bears) Just look at the dismal prices for old bears on ebay. Artist bears are doing extremely well by comparison. 
To cut this short...I would be proud and flattered to see one of my pieces up for resale.  I would like to think that the reseller is hoping to make a profit on my work...again flattering.  I agree with earlier comments about presentation.. It is up to the reseller to present it at least as professionally as did the original artist.  One last thought.  It would serve us all well to encourage rather than discourage the buying and selling of our work.  It creates an interest in what should be valuable pieces of artwork that could and should be around for future generations. Imagine one of your pieces bringing in 180,000. at Christies 50 years from now
:crackup:
Just my opinion. 
Gail G

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorSep 30, 2008

Welcome to Teddy Talk, Heather.  Collectors as well as artists and any others interested in the teddy bear industry are certainly encouraged to join our group . . . we're more than glad to have you.  Daphne is correct . . . our rules ask that members not list resale items on our forum.  Your original creations (teddies and friends) are what we want to showcase and help you sell here - with no competition from other sales listings. 

I have had many of my bears resold on ebay and the first reaction is usually disappointment - as in my work is no longer valued by this person.  However, I certainly am acquainted with how circumstances in one's life can change and understand how it could become a reason for reselling.  So - I've come to accept that it's gonna happen.  But, I echo Edie's concern about the original bear getting "altered".  I've had some bears sold without the accessories I put on them . . . grrr       Ribbons have been crushed, fur messed up, horrible photos and so on.  Not much can be done after the bear leaves the artist to go to a new home, but it does rankle when someone isn't polite enough to resell my bear as it originally looked.  But - oh well.  Again, Heather, welcome to TT - hope you enjoy the party.

HeatherM Oct 1, 2008

Thank you again for making me feel so welcome!   

Well I totally understand being upset or angry when someone resells your piece after making changes to it  Especially if they don't acknowledge it! I take extremely good care of my pieces and have only sold things in their original shape.  And like I said I've met some wonderful artists here and almost all without exception have let me use their pictures (sometimes I take my own), and in the case of one artist even let her collectors know the piece was available again... I won't say who that is but she's the BIGGEST SWEETHEART  :hug:

Yes I believe the economy is playing a HUGE part in the general slow down of eBay sales. As for resales, in my experience they have almost never gone as high as the original sale, often not even close.    I think active collectors enjoy the thrill of an original piece, newly made, and coming directly from the artist. If I were clever I would sit and wait and ONLY buy resales!  but I am like many other collectors... I fall in love with a piece and can't resist. It's an addictive hobby!

So.... Is it OK then to post here when I have items for sale? Keep in mind these are only OOAK works of art and not edition or manufactured pieces... But I don't want to step on any toes so if it's not OK I accept that.

Thanks again for all your comments and help!!! 

Hugs, Heather

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorOct 1, 2008

Um - Heather, I will check with admin on my interpretation of our rules, but I don't think it's okay for you to post a link to your ebay sales because:  those items were not created by you and you are reselling someone else's work.  Is that not secondary market?  I may be totally wrong here and will get back to you, so hang on.

danceswithteddybears Oct 1, 2008

I'm not yet selling my work, except at my shop.  But if I can add my two cents:
I feel an owner of whatever is entitled to sell that whatever.  The secondary market is an important part of the market place as a whole.
However, I feel it doesn't belong here on TT.  In any way, shape, or form. 
I hope I'm not overstepping, but I feel strongly about this.  TT is a great great site, as it is.  One thing can lead to another, then TT will change.  The rules should be adhered to, especially in regards to the secondary market.
Laura

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorOct 1, 2008

Heather, I'm back.  And, no, it is not permissable to post a link to your ebay sales . . . sorry.

HeatherM Oct 1, 2008

Sue Ann, thanks so much for checking that out for me!  I'm disappointed that there's no place to post One-Of-A-Kind resale pieces  but of course I respect that decision. Maybe in the future there will be a forum for collectors to post there sales  :pray:

Does anyone know of another site where this is possible? It's nice to have an option other than eBay... And honestly I much prefer to sell directly to a collector. Once again I appreciate all the assistance.  :hug:

Heather

Daphne Oct 1, 2008

Heather - try Bear Pile!

www.bearpile.com

High traffic, lots of listings (which bring the traffic), easy to use, affordable, reliable, non-auction format and many artists will tell you of their successes there!

K Pawz GuestOct 1, 2008

HI Heather! Welcome! so great to see you here!
As for a site to post, bear pile would be a good choice, and you could also try Bid 4 Bears!
Chat soon!
hugs,
Krista

Tammy Oct 1, 2008

Welcome to TT Heather.  I agree that Bear Pile and Bid 4 Bears are a good place to  try re-homing your pieces.
There is an artist campaign going on at Bid4 Bears right now so there will  be more traffic than usual too.  Best of luck.

HeatherM Oct 4, 2008

Thanks Krista and Tammy!  I thought Bear Pile was also only for artists selling their own work? I'll look into it! Bid 4 Bears I'm familiar with but wasn't sure how much attention they get... And without being able to post a link anywhere 

I really appreciate the suggestions, thanks!!  :hug:

Heather