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Past Time BearsI have just finished an all-fours bear using a double jointed neck and needle sculpting the toes . . . two techniques that I've never done before! I found both techniques to be quite time consuming, so what I need is feedback. And where better to get it than from all you wonderful bearmakers! What I'm asking is if the double joints and the toes make enough difference in the overall appearance of the bear compared with what I usually do - to make spending the extra time worthwhile. Does that make any sense? Please be honest as I do not have a thin skin and welcome your critiques. I'm going to show pics of the usual all fours that I make and this latest one. I'm only going to leave these photos up for about a week, then I will delete them, 'cause they take up a lot of space. But I guess I just need to see if those two extra steps make the bear a lot more appealing!!
These are some samples of how I've been making all-fours.
This is Briscoe, the latest all fours.
Now I MUST get off this computer and get stuff ready for Austin. See you ladies/gents (if you guys are still with us) on Monday. Hugs and thank you for responding!
Posts: 8,574Well Sue Ann
You may not like this answer but the second thing to jump out in the picture
was the toes../(the first being the Sue Ann face to die for)
So I vote for toes, and you did a such a wonderful job on them---really great...As for the double joints-well he is just soooo cute in all those positions and he wouldn't be quite AS cute without the fun positions....so Hmmmmm
Yep, sorry honey, but I gotta vote for double joints too.....
But you know better than the rest of us if you think you can recoup your time costs....
But, yes, I think the toes and the joints really make a big differance in him.....
Sorry......
It looks like an awful lot of work. But when you look at him.....welllll
What do you think?
That's the problem with being an artist....always trying to do better, innovative, cuter, different, improving.....
So Madame Artiste......
JUST TOOK ANOTHER LOOK- he really is too cute!
Dazed dillylu
Hi Sue Ann
Sorry but I also vote for both the double jointed neck and the toes. You want this bear to look more like the realistic bear and not a teddy bear who thinks he is realistic!!!! Both features add to the value of the bear so figure in your time and charge accordingly. The more of them you do the faster you will become at doing both of these techniques
Hugs
Gail
Back Road BearsCount my vote FOR toes and double joint!!
I make double-jointed four legged-bears and that's been the one special thing about them that is fun to show off to folks at shows... great way to strike up a conversation! But it really makes for adorable poses!!!
The first thing I saw was the toes.... ('were' the toes?) They are fabulous! I'm envious of all of you who do sculpted toes... I just can't do it! I need an in person lesson! Anyone??
The extra time is well worth the price you will charge for them and especially the overall look!!!!
Hugs, Daphne
Daphne- I am so with you! I have tried the toes, read about how to do it, seen diagrams, but nope, they never turn out! I need someone to show me! I'm taking a class in July with jennifer Laing, I'll ask her to show me!
Sue Ann - Briscoe is the cutest thing ever! I am leaning toward buying an anime by Sue ann... but maybe I need one with toes! 
Delartful BearsGee Sue-Ann, they are all wonderful bears. I'm not sure how much of a difference the double jointed neck makes..... Could be just in the photos it doesn't "pop" out at you!!
The pulled toes are fantastic - I don't think many people can pull off that look very convincingly... I mean, a lot of pulled toes are really wrinkly and not soo great. But yours are great!!!!!!!!! I think it's a personal thing - I am not really into the look, but if you like the look, then you'll love the bear with the pulled toes.
Those are just my personal opinions, so since I'm not crazy about the pulled toes look, I'd probably go for the first.. I know I'm not in the majority though!
Baird'sBearsSue Ann,
Unless you hate doing them, I think the toes and double-jointed neck are absolutely worth the time--and they'll take less time the more you do them. Definitely charge more. I'm envisioning a table full of realistic bears, all in different poses. Wow!!
That said, I would kill for the little black bear, toes or no. :D
Eileen
PottersHouse BearsSue Ann,
I like both styles. Your work is beautiful in both. The thing about Briscoe (I love that name) is that he looks like a baby bear. He's got those fat little toes and what a face. You just want to pick him up and hug him. I think you'll find that they will both go well. Different people have different tastes. I personally haven't met a bear of yours that I didn't like.
Wisdom BearsHi Sue Ann,
Your Bear faces are just to die for, but I do agree with the others,Sculpted Toes look super when done properly,and yours look absolutely superb. I do agree with eileen ,you must put your prices up when you do this intricate work. They look amazing, although ,I cannot see the neck joints too well. Hugs Rita xxxx
LuxembearsSue Ann. Simply Beautiful job! The toes reminds me of a new born baby. There is just nothing cuter than baby toes. The positions you have for the head are wonderful and capture such expression and personality. You are a very talented lady.
Ya know, I wonder if I too should delete some of my pictures if they may be taking up too much space? I am such a picture person.
Great job Sue Ann!
TQ again!
Posts: 3,177He's absolutely lovely Sue Ann - all that time and effort has paid off ;)
I think that if you want to take the extra time to add double neck joints and tiny toes then you should - i know a lot of people like their bears to have these extra finishing touches - so if all the fidding around does'nt drive you nuts, stick with it!
If it does drive you nuts - forget it and continue making your lovely bears as before
Lifes too short for faffing about with toes hahaha
PennyPoodles 
C.W. Huggley BearsSue Ann,
I vote for the double joints also. Absolutely adorable!
I agree with Nina/Millie, that all the bears you showcase look realistic, but the last one really looks like a baby/cub. That might be swaying opinion a little bit!
I think pulled toes are great in general, on ANY bear; they add detail and charm. Who could resist those little tootsies peeking out? I've tried them a few times myself, with varying degrees of success. Someday I will discover or stumble across a "method" and then it will be something to do with confidence. For now, it's a lot of extra work, and a super-lot of extra stress ("What if they're crooked? What if they don't turn out? What if I ruin three days' worth of work?") so I don't do them often.
Your pulled toes, in particular, look SUPERB. I think you should consider them "added" to your repertoire of stylings and check that box off once and for all!
As for the double jointed neck... I can't see that joint, per se, but I do think the little cub has a more whimsical tilt of the head than the first bears you showcase, so that's probably worth hanging onto as well.
It IS extra work, so DO adjust your pricing accordingly. When I have a new feature on a bear at auction I'm always sure to say, "This is a first" or "This is a new technique" so my collectors can understand why a particular bruin might have taken an especially long time to complete.
Wonderful, wonderful work in every case! As if we'd expect anything else from you. 
Canna Bear PaintSue Ann, the only difficulty here is that you're asking us to compare A+ work with A+ work All of the bears are gorgeous, and each has his own unique charm. The toes are fantastic, keep 'em coming. From the perspective of your overall look, I don't think the double jointed neck made a huge difference. However, you will certainly be able to achieve a wider range of motion and poses with the new neck, which can indeed make it worth the time. It may just not be something you'll want to do in every all-fours bear, and your original bears are so well done there's nothing wrong with that.
Cheers,
Kelly
Winneybears and FriendsI definately vote for the pulled neck and jointed toes..he, he...no really . you do the toes so well it's " artistry at its finest " and the extra neck joint does offer many more poses for expressions , isn't that what we all strive for ? .....Winney
bears by beesley TMSUE ANN!!!!! I am absolutely drooling over your bears! I love them! I was just saying to Garnet today that I am going to try my hand at a more realistic bear. I don't know Girl... after seeing these I might want to re think this. I could never compare to these guys!!! Absolutely wonderful! Hugs Hugs Hugs
Louise (NO...I HAVE NOT BEEN INTO THE WINE????):P:P
Hugs Louise
Kiprie BearsSue Ann, sorry... I'm also with eveyone, I will vote for both.
Because, I admire your wok ! and
1) I love realistic looking bears with double joint neck.
I'm taking Nancy Tillberg's class(Freez'in ) to learn how to do the
trick and I notice that is hard work !!!! I feel like making 2body in 1bear. that will be 3-4 extra
hour for me.
2) I love the pulled toe but not so crazy about it. why !?
because I can't make them !!!!!!!! I had try try try , practice practice practice but
still can't make one....
So, Artist should add extra fee for those toes ! that what I thought.... :cool:
Bear Hugs/Marie
Hi Sue Ann! a bit late jumping in here... but I'd definitely vote YES on the double jointed neck. I love the different poses he has with that!
As for the toes... they are very cute! But as a collector I don't think I'd "not buy" the bear if he didn't have them.
Just my thoughts...
Hi Sue Ann,
I love Briscoe and the other 'all fours' bears! The toes are cute, but it's the face that does it for me.
It's so tricky to know what to advise. In my experience, these days price is all important. Customers will pay good money, but not crazy money and with that in mind, I am careful with the techniques I use nowadays because it's necessary to ensure a certain number of sales in a set time.
I have found that new techniques, don't always guarantee sales at a greater price ... even when they should! It's tough selling over here in the UK - I guess you know your own market and so putting a retail price on the extra work will reflect your own confidence in the market.
Offering greater detailing on your bears is terrific from a job satisfaction point of view and great if you can translate that into revenue which reflects the extra time and effort.
Good luck!
DoodlebearsHi Sue Ann,
Wow! The bears are wonderful. I love their cute faces and your photography is really good. As for the question about double neck joints, I love them. I have used these often on my bears as the poses that you can get with the bear are great. Once you get into the swing of doing double neck joints then it will be much quicker for you to do them. The sculpted toes are really effective and add a touch of realism and in my opinion look great. I know both of these features are time consuming but for the effect that they give I feel well worth doing. I just love the fur which you made Briscoe out of could you tell me what it is please!
Jane.
Past Time BearsThanks SO VERY MUCH, ladies . . . I knew you would all give me great feedback, and you certainly didn't disappoint!! Well, Briscoe did sell yesterday at the show and, Daphne, you were right . . . I did have fun showing how the joints work and all the positions he could "do". You are all SO nice and complimentary of my bears and I do feel very humble with such praise!! Think I WILL try a few more bears with the two techniques and see if I can get a little faster and more efficient at doing them. They did take the time!!
Someone, somewhere said that Jennifer Laing's book Constructing Teddy and his Friends has the pulled toes info. If any of you don't have the book, I'll be glad to 'show and tell' how I stumbled my way through it.
Jane, the mohair is at least 8 years old as I have a bear made from it from 1997! Also, I don't know what my camera was seeing, but the fur isn't as colorful as what shows up in the pic. I will tell you that I got it at Edinburgh and in reality, it's a dark-tipped, taupe color mohair . . . doesn't really have the rusty color that shows up in the photo. The fur is labled B75-2, color 9020 in Edinburgh's catalog, however, should you want to try it.
Thanks again, ladies, for your wonderful help and feedback . . . you are the greatest!
Baird'sBearsSue Ann,
How did you get such a clear photo of the little black bear? I understand they're the most difficult to capture, but that it ONE great photo :D
Eileen
Kim-Bee BearsI just love those little tootsies!!!
Past Time BearsThanks, Eileen . . . actually, the black bear is very dark brown . . . but it IS hard to photograph a dark bear whatever the color. I try to use a lighter background when taking pics of dark bears, then have the light source behind you. I still take photos outside in natural light and don't have the light tent setup that some of you have. And, while I do come up with some good photos, I believe the light tent probably does the best job of looking like a professional pic. All of the photos above were taken with a circa 1978 Minolta SLR camera . . . except for Briscoe, and I used my digital for him (and ended up with a not true mohair color!). Sigh.
Posts: 222i really love those bears the pulled toes look is staticly awesome delartful said something on wrinkly toes i like wrinkly toes if i do a bear with pulled toes to me wrinklier the better i especialy love briscoe i just want to hug him and rub his cute feet and hug him some more he is so cute. like tossie.
