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BearBottoms May 18, 2006

Hi Brenda, Thanks for your reply, but he said that he takes care of the business end of her auctions, and oversees the whole thing while she is away, so he is fully aware of the situation and any legalities of her business.  I wouldn't say I think negatively about him in general; I just felt that perhaps he should have been more 'we are sorry and will take care of this person' and not 'let me have your item number and make sure you aren't committing copyright infringement'.  Maybe I'm crazy...  I am not on trial here; I didn't do anything wrong! lol

Kimberly W.

Daphne May 18, 2006

First off, I have NOT taken the time to look at your auction listing, though I've seen your adorable Morris, and I have not looked at Jodi's listing.

HOWEVER: How on earth can you copyright telling a story with an animal? Especially if so many other companies have likely been doing that longer than Jodi?  It's like copyrighting putting a wrapper on a candy bar! I've seen so many listings over the years where there has been a story with a bear. I've never paid attention to WHO the artists were but I know there was more than one and each had a unique way of telling the story, listing the auction, etc.

Yes, I'd want to hear exactly what that copyright says.

Also..... union*proud and Jodi's husband..... they've got to be one in the same, no? They could certainly each have their own ebay user acocunts. The emails from both seem similar.

I was just emailing with a TTer about my needlefelted ATCs...... having never seen another felted bear artist's card I figure it's something unique. We joked about someone copying the idea pretty quick here. I figure I should be flattered that someone liked the idea and just hope they do a better job than I've done so far!

It's all in priorities and respect... if money is most important and someone copying what you've done may take away your sales then your greed is going to bring out the worst in you. If you are a level headed individual, realize that it's likey many others have come up with the same idea you had w/o ever seeing what you made, and know that you can't possibly OWN the market on ANYTHING then you'll wish these people success and have the confidence in your own work that you'll continue to succeed as well.

Kim, as I said before.... you hold that head high and keep doing what your doing. 

BearBottoms May 18, 2006

Thank you Daphne,  I couldn't have said it better myself!

By the way, needlefelted ATC's - AWESOME IDEA!  I'm next!!! LOL    :hug:

I'm PMing you... :)

Kimberly W.

thumperantiques May 18, 2006

Daphne, I guess I'm a little naive - I never even thought about this person possibly being her husband, and I guess we shouldn't speculate as we will never know for sure.  Whoever it is definitely isn not doing the artist any favours.   I agree with you about those trying to claim all the rights to a specific style only hurt themselves, and for the story-telling, tons of artists do it, including myself.

Kim, I hope you get a positive response about this for the artist.  No matter what, you have done nothing wrong and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. 

                                                        hugs,

                                                        Brenda

BearBottoms May 18, 2006

Thanks Daphne.  I am not trying to throw stones either, as I will probably never know the truth for certain.  But I will say something smells like rotten fish... lol  I tried to reply in this post as neutrally as possible, but I'll admit it does bug me, the coincidences.  I won't be losing any sleep over it though!   I'm not out to make any enemies, just make people aware that if something like this happens to them it's not neccessarily their fault.   :hug: Oh, and make more mice and bears, too!

Hugs!
Kimberly W.

kbonsall May 18, 2006

I was just emailing with a TTer about my needlefelted ATCs...... having never seen another felted bear artist's card I figure it's something unique. We joked about someone copying the idea pretty quick here. I figure I should be flattered that someone liked the idea and just hope they do a better job than I've done so far!

I actually was going to do this a while back but I thought it would take up too much time and not a lot of profit...

Laura Lynn Banner SponsorMay 18, 2006

Kim ... a belated "so sorry to hear about this!" 

I hope Jodi will email you soon... she's a TT member too.  She has a link to TT on her website :)

As for the "story telling" method of selling on eBay..... Jodan McKinnon has done that for years (Bruinwald)  She is no longer making bears... but I know at one time she was hoping to publish a book of all of the stories she had written for every bear's auction.   :hug:

bearlyart May 18, 2006

The husband of the artist apparently does not understand what copyright does and does NOT protect.  In this case, does NOT.  Here is is, straight off the U.S. Copyright Office web site (I'm making sure to give them credit for writing this, so I don't commit copyright infringement myself, LOL): 

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-p … html#title

How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.

How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.

OK, me again.  So... there is NO WAY that the word Storytime or the name "Storytime whatever-type-of-animal" can be copyrighted.  NO WAY.  It is NOT protected by copyright!  Additionally, the CONCEPT of creating a story about an animal CANNOT BE COPYRIGHTED.  NEVER.  NOT AT ALL.  The most she could do under the law would be to print out each individual story with the pictures, just as though it were a little book, and file a copyright on that.  And that copyright would only protect that exact story.  She would have to repeat for each story.  Frankly, if the husband thinks he's going to sue for copyright infringement against anyone 'violating' those perceived copyrights, the only thing that will happen is he will lose a heck of a lot of money by *losing* a legal battle.

<sigh>
Kelly

thumperantiques May 18, 2006

Kelly,
     Thanks so much for the information - I'm going to save it in my files.  I always get confused on copyrights and trademarks.  It's obviously clear that telling stories and making mice or even combining the two things, can not be copyrighted, so it should make Kim feel completely within her rights to list har auctions as she has been doing.  Kim, I'd save this info too, if I were you, so you can fire it off to people who make silly claims!

                                                     hugs,

                                                     Brenda

shantell May 18, 2006

Thanks Kelly...you are just a wealth of information. 

I would think that anyone who has read the news or seen the media fiasco related to "The DaVinci Code" would certainly have learned by now that ideas, concepts, etc., etc., can not be copyrighted.  The author has been through two lawsuits recently over accusations of plagerism.  Whether he did or didn't isn't for me to say but obviously a US court and a British court felt he had not. 

Sad that some people spend so much time making others feel bad or questioning anothers integrity instead of encouraging and congratulating on achievements.

But then what the heck do I know...except...Kim your mousie is adorable and I hope you make TONS more!!!   Just don't let my kittens see them... HA ha

Eileen May 19, 2006

The title 'Storytime Mouse' has been used many times and in many contexts. I tried a Google.

There's also a childen's program here in Canada that features a puppet named Storytime Mouse. It's been running for more than 30 years!

I've seen Jodi's auctions, and her creations are wonderful. But I'm not at all sure just what aspect of them is copywritable.

Eileen

BearBottoms May 19, 2006

Thank you Kelly, so much for that information.  Now everyone, not only myself, will be able to use that to their advantage the next time a silly remark like that is made.

I didn't think that anyone could do anything to me for making a mouse with a story (more of a cut-scene if you ask me anyway), which is why I replied that I was certain there was no Copyright Infringement.

I have only one thing to say about the development of this post, OK 2..... lol  I am still not going to mention any names....

#1 the 'husband' that emailed me back stated that they were in fact protected by copyright law and that they wouldn't pursue legally if I only did it once.  So with that knowledge, it seems to me as though they were simply trying to scare me like they tried another TTer.... which makes them 'not-nice' people in my opinion, and I am so sorry about anyone else they've managed to intimidate.

#2 they are only hurting themselves, and I hope every word that I and everyone else wrote is read by whoever needs to read it. 

I hope this post has given everyone a little bit of knowledge and strength to make WHATEVER THEY WANT, as long as it's not copyrighted..... lol!

By the way, look at my new post.  All this drama led me to go and get two new little sidekicks! :)

Kimberly W.

sonblestbears May 19, 2006

Hi Kimberly, I'm so behind on all the posts, I've not been on here recently due to my son and I both being really sick.....I could not believe all of this you have been through over your cute little mouse on ebay, that's just unbelievable, I feel so bad for you....I hope this doesn't sidetrack you in anyway, you should continue making your adorable creations, you've done absolutely nothing wrong!!!! Keep up the good work and pay no attention to those who have nothing better to do with their time than harass others......I hope your little mouse does FABULOUS on ebay!!!!
  I also wanted to get back with you, I sort of dropped off unexpectedly last week because of my son's illness and then my own......I could not believe your husband also works at Wabash!!!!! I almost fell out of my chair!!!!! My husband works 1st shift, main plant, line 2 (he'll be shaking his head if I'm wrong  :redface: ) He's worked there forever now.  That would be so funny if they knew each other all this time!!  Your house sounds very easy to find, we'll have to find a time once we are all healthy over here to get together!! It would be a lot of fun!! 
  Again, keep up the good work, I love your mouse AND his adorable story auction, soooooooo sweet!!!! And you did such an awesome job!! I love him!!! I hope you put all this nonsense from this man, whoever he is, behind you!!   :hug:   Kimi

BearBottoms May 19, 2006

Hi Kimi,

I was wondering what happened!!  lol, I thought, "OK, hmmmm... maybe she DOESN'T want to meet." lol   Hope you two are feeling better!

Yes, there has been a lot of support here on TT about this issue; I'm so glad for it.  I amnot letting it get to me; it did at first but I realized I did nothing wrong and whoever's behind it all will pay his/her dues one day! So I'll leave it at that.  thank you for your compliments; I'll be making more for sure!

Yes, it would be great to get together some time, even if it's not about bears....   My husband's name is Chad, by the way... dunno if your husband's ever heard of him, but working different shifts, maybe not!  It would be super funny if they did, though!

:hug:
Kimberly W.