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Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Has anyonme heard of the eBay group - TBAS? I saw a link on a bear website and went to the Home page to join. It's a moderated/by-approval group. Ok. That's cool. Artisan = Guild...
A few weeks went by and tonight I've received this e from the owner/moderator:
__________
Hello and Thank you for your interest in Teddy Bear Artisan Society, TBAS, this is a brand new Teddy Bear Artist group and we are in the forming stage of the group, at this time we are no longer nominating new members. We will be opening nominations 2 times during the year and nominations come from existing members.
Some of the requirements for being nominated are as follows:
Must do original work
Must be a professional bear artist (bears are your main source of income)
Must be respectful of fellow artists
Monthly Bear sells of 700-1000 dollars
Toby or Golden Teddy nomination helpful but not required for membership
____________________
Now, this stikes me as exclusivity; sorority and all of that. Still cool.
But - requiring a minimum monthly income? That makes an Artisan?
I don't get it. Is anyone here a member who can explain this to me?
This was my Reply - not sure I'll receive a response.
___________________
I 'think' I'd qualify for membership - - except for the income
part. I've been in the miniature teddy bear world since 1990,
exhibited and taught from Singapore, across the States and
Canada and into Germany, was a feature writer for over a decade for a British-based bear
newsletter, am now writing for 3 bear/fiber ezines, have TOBY,
TITA, A.C.E. & URSA wins and Golden Teddy nominations, but
having knee replacements in the past 2 years has stopped my
income from shows and have online sales that begin at $100
auctions but the surgeries have made it clumped together through the year rather
than monthly.
I hope I still qualify. If I do not know the member list - how would
I get an invitation?
Some of my background can be seen here:
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl … id=rkr4cds
Thank you for your email and for your consideration.
Flying Fur StudiosWell, I guess I find it kinda snobby for my taste. But if you start a group, you can require whatever you want from your members. I just wonder the motivation behind it, or what this group could do for you.
You are soo right Bobby, how does a monthly income have anything to do with a person being an artist.
But that's just my 2 cents, I suppose if they did accept you, it would be quite the complement.
Kran-Beary'sHmmm. Interesting criteria for an Artisan's Group. Not sure that I would agree with them as being objective enough for true artisan selection, but thought provoking none the less. Sounds a bit elitist and too subjective for me.
hugs,
nt
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)I have actually heard back from the list owner - of the 18 members there's one owner and four moderators.
Thx for the private emails weighing in on this, too!!
In my mind a guild type of group should be about achieving new levels of skill/excellence within one's own realm of work, not about who gets in and how much money they earn. That's for Alumni groups in terms of fund-raising farming!
A curious thing is (in reading endorian's eBay Feedback - and how else would one ever prove their income, should they wish to reveal it, but in a public forum like finished eBay listings?) that her sales are between zip and $500+ a month in the past 6 months. Why set so high a minimum requirement for group inclusion? Money has NEVER equalled ability.
And as to bearmaking, many more mice are made by endorian than bears
endorian's reply:
Hello Bobbie, The membership list is private because we didn't want people writing the members and asking to be invited , because it will be out of their control and even mine, on who gets final membership approval, (because each memeber has only one vote) that way there won't be any hard feelings if an artist is not voted in. When Nominations are open, members put artist names in for consideration, then that artist is researched by a panel of moderators, if their work is approved and the artist to be shown as a person of high integrity, then their name is brought to the group for a vote. Membership is very limited , that is why those that are nominated do not know they are being nominated until they are voted into the group.
I hope this answers some of your questions.
Canna Bear PaintSounds like they are trying to go the way of the groups in the eBay Art categories. There are many eBay artist groups, very few are useful, some are exclusionary and 'snobbish', some are pointless and most are redundant. I will say that using art groups as keywords in the Art categories makes some sense, where one painting can get lost in tens of thousands of other paintings over a week's time. It is a way to find "like-minded" artists or works of a similar nature, by searching for the group's keyword instead of slogging through thousands of paintings randomly. The artist bear category on eBay is not even remotely comparable and I truly hope the bear world does NOT go in this direction.
As for the income requirements on this particular group, I presume that this is a group solely for eBay purposes, so I imagine they'd just look through your recent auctions to figure out what you're making. As to how they expect to figure out if you "make your living" by looking at those numbers, it is impossible to prove short of requiring a tax return.
And, in all honesty, if they're going to convince me of how elite and professional they are... they are really going to have to find a better phrase than "monthly bear sells".
The information posted above reminds me of the artist group IBND, or "Imitated But Never Duplicated". Search for IBND on eBay to find them, it is an group of a select few artists. They sell themselves as the FIRST to do what they do and the BEST at what they do; this is generally interpreted as saying that "other" artists are just trying to catch up or copy them. This usually goes over like a lead balloon among other artists.
Best wishes,
Kelly
Past Time BearsHmmm. Interesting criteria for an Artisan's Group. Not sure that I would agree with them as being objective enough for true artisan selection, but thought provoking none the less. Sounds a bit elitist and too subjective for me.
hugs,
nt
My thoughts exactly.
Back Road BearsMy mother always told me that if I didn't have anything nice to say to keep my mouth shut.
But I never listened to her! :crackup:
After reading the first couple of lines of the email Bobbie got all I could think was Snooty, Snooty, Snooty! No way on earth would I be a member of such a snobby 'Society' - just the word alone shouts "Our bowel movements don't stink... yours do!" Just WHO do they think they are and who made them so 'special'?
I'd much rather buy bears from a down to earth, level headed, in it for the smiles and warmth their creations bring sort of artist!!! I'd also rather keep the company of such kind hearted souls than the likes of society snobs!
OK, can ya tell this post rubbed me the wrong way?
I can imagine who a few of the members are with out reseraching and in fact one used to be a member here but has had all traces of her exisitence on TT erased so we obviously weren't good enough for her! If that's the kind of people who are forming this 'society' then I want no part!
Now that I've probably ticked a number of people off I'm going to go back to sewing and be very glad I'm not a member of such a group. I like it right here and don't need to be a member of some snobby club to get my bears sold and have wonderful collectors and fellow bear artists for friends!!!
:hug:
Daphne
Okay, so I get the elitist thing, but what's in it for the bear artist? Just pure elitism? If so, I think I'd probably meet their entry criteria, but wouldn't want to join. I'd rather take my chances in the main thrust of all things bear related, participating with, welcoming and supporting all comers, established, new, simply curious, whatever. Surely that's got to be more healthy approach for the bear industry as a whole? We need aspirational standards set, but I'm not convinced this is the way to recognise them.
I hope I am not talking out of turn here but I am a member of TBAS and I think it is just a very small group of folks who were invited to join initially. I have had a little to do with it and all the folks seem very nice and I guess it's going to be as cliquey as any other group because it always happens..hard as you try not to let it. When I was asked to join I was never asked my turnover and for what it's worth mine is sporadic and I can have bumper months and sometimes very little cash flows my way..hence why I won't ever give up my day job..LOL!! I don't think the criteria for membership is based on snobbery and at least they won't get that from me anyway..I am afraid I am not impressed by anything vaguely snobby and have little in common with that type of person.
Perhaps it's a bit ham fisted to insist on typical turnover as in doing so you may exclude just the very artists you intended to attract...because often those with less turnover have their sights set more on creativity than on money making.
I don't want to judge it but I expect the reason for it was that it is just about beary things. I don't see much wrong with exclusive groups and they are entitled to make their own rules...and we don't have to join. To me it was about just being involved with a group of like minded people....that's all. No secret signs or funny handshakes!
I was also asked to join TBAS, and did so at the earliest of stages when there were maybe four members, a few months ago. Up til now it's been a nice place to drop in; I read the comments of bear artists I admire a lot for their talent and product, and whom I've otherwise not had a chance to "meet." I'm busy, and don't get to drop in often.
It's very much in the early, planning phases; I don't believe there's an official charter yet and I suspect that the information Bobbie received from Jodi was more of a "shooting from the hip, here's what we're thinking the criteria for membership might be" kind of email, than an outline of actual RULES and REGULATIONS.
Certainly, like Jenny, I was never shown any kind of income requirement ... and would be disqualified already if I had been, because my income trickles at times too!
I think that Jodi, who got behind this idea and made it happen to BENEFIT bearmakers, invited artisans she knows and respects to help her at the foundation building level to assist in brainstorming the "how" and "why" and "who" of the organization.
It's my understanding that the purpose of TBAS is, at its core, to create a society or guild of bearmakers who aspire to certain standards. Which standards, exactly? I'm not sure yet, and I don't think those behind it have nailed them down in specifics at this point, either.
But the IDEA is, I believe -- the rough concept -- is that, to belong, members must have somehow proven their:
-- integrity as business persons
-- originality in design and execution
-- mastery of technique
-- wish and commitment to advance the industry
-- desirability (there's a market for their work, at whatever price point!)
Now, I'm speaking ENTIRELY out of my butt here, as Shelli the person and with no affiliation to Jodi or the group moderators or their planning process as it occurs behind the scenes. So don't quote me on those points! But, when I joined, that was the idea behind the TBAS concept, as it was explained to me. I think people are still trying to figure it all out in specifics at this writing.
It's an eBay group, and like many such groups, membership is by invitation only. I don't think that's because anyone is hung up on exclusivity or snobbishness or a wish to exclude -- that's not been my experience of TBAS to date -- but rather, because the idea behind TBAS is to grow it into something meaningful, that denotes a certain quality of product and commitment to excellence. To grow it into something which, like NIADA, is a mark of achievement and something to be proud to claim membership in, and to place on a resume.
It remains to be seen what the exact rules and guidelines will be for TBAS as it develops a firmer structure and more explicit rules for membership over time. I retain my right to be a cheerleader, or to exit the group, depending on the specifics of that outcome.
I can tell you that I am behind the idea of a bear artisan guild, along the lines of NIADA, which has explicit and difficult-to-achieve criteria for membership, 100%. It seems like it would be a good thing for our industry; to me, anyway. And the idea of holding artists to high standards of execution and business conduct appeals to me as well.
As for cliquiness... well, I've never been to one place on earth where, given enough time, cliques don't form. I don't know that this group will be any more "clique-y" than any other group on Earth. I hope not. I hope that, once the rules and guidelines for membership are firmed up, they are applied fairly and evenly, without regard to personal loyalties or aversions. Politics... not my favorite thing, in this industry. I can tell you THAT for certain.
Canna Bear PaintNo secret handshakes? Well, I'm out! 
Honestly, I admit to being extremely confused about the whole thing, and I also acknowledge that we are going on third-party information here, so thank you Jenny for posting (and Shelli, who posted while I was typing this).
But... what is the point of having an elite club where the membership is kept secret? Do you get a prize if you guess who's in it?
And secondly... why would they have such strict requirements for membership, if they are then NOT sticking to them?
Very, very confused here 
Best wishes,
Kelly
I hear you, Kelly. I'm really telling you more than I know... but I believe my intuition on this is fairly accurate. I think the heart behind this concept is in the right place and that it's not about elitism at all, but rather, about promoting teddy bears as an ART FORM, with members meeting certain, as yet undefined criteria, as "artists." That's my main point, anyway.
There is a logo for members to use in auctions and on their websites so it's pretty clear that it's not mean to be a "secret society!" In fact the idea is to proudly claim membership.
It MEANS something to belong to the doll guild called NIADA. I think the idea behind TBAS is the same. As I said, it remains to be seen whether this pans out in ways that feel comfortable to me (and others) but for now I'm of the mind to support the CONCEPT as a good one until something gets put in writing as a hard and fast rule, that forces me to think otherwise.
Thanks for your posts!
Flying Fur StudiosWell, interesting we have some members of TBAS here. What a way to clear the air! LOL
I really think each to his own. I don't think being a part of this group or not will really effect the quality of life for anyone. It's too bad people will take it personally if they are not invited. I don't believe you need to be a part of some group to sell bears, or to be desired. Heck, some people just don't even have time to join groups, read posts or emails. Doesn't make them any less desirable in the bear community. Besides, who's to say the person who didn't invite you is any authority anyway?
I think of this, or NIADA which I know MANY members, as something of a sorority. Something of a popularity contest, and face it, bear making and bear sales are highly effected by popularity.
So if you want to be popular, we can start our own group, create our own rules and go from there. Although I doubt it's going to do anything for the bear making industry or our careers, but it never hurts to hope! LOL
Interesting.....and somewhat similar to the TBAGS (Teddy Bear Artists and Golly Society) I thought of, and mentioned here, several months ago here on TT. It seems someone else had a very similar idea. Kudos to them for getting it off the ground. 
This topic has made me really think about the way I peruse Ebay now. I've been punching in PFATT, SSODS, TWOTH and the like. After reading this topic I realize now that I may have been excluding some really talented and fabulous artits that don't belong to these groups.
I can always count on TT to open my eyes.
Warmest wide eyed bear hugs, :hug:
Aleta
Go for it, Heather! I think you should call it THE WING COLLECTIVE. At least until you get married, anyway. :)
You make some great points and I agree; to each his or her own. I don't know that membership to NIADA increases sales in terms of either numbers or prices (although it very well may as it's fairly established and well respected.) And it certainly doesn't make a given artist's doll more desirable, or cuter, or snugglier. As with all things "art," it either touches you... or it doesn't.
But for some people, being part of a larger whole; being held to certain standards and shown as capable of upholding those standards; having some kind of peer group "stamp of acceptance;" is an important part of doing what they do. I don't judge those people, and I don't judge the people who simply couldn't care less about such things. The appeal of a person, or of that person's "product," is entirely separate from membership ina given organization, or competition, or geography, or skin color. Excellent point!
I hope TBAS doesn't turn out to be a popularity contest and I hope NIADA isn't one either; I hope both will be/are as objective as possible in choosing their members so that art for art's sake, and not personal loyalties and popularity, is the focus. Otherwise, the entire purpose of "belonging", the entire meaning of the "stamp," gets lost.
But I guess people will be people and there's no way to really "know" just how much influence such things have on outcomes.
Interesting stuff!
Hey Aleta... you were posting while I was typing.
I don't know what PFATTEILSEIHE:OERWUYWOPER is. When I search eBay, I don't seek out memberships, guilds, or clubs in listings.
Rather, I search "artist bear."
... Which, I "get", just may be your exact point!!!
Flying Fur StudiosToo funny Shelli. The Wing collective has a nice ring to it. Much better than
The Klokocka collective! LOL oh boy, so help me god........LOL
Shelli, I need to write and email to someone and I just cant find the words, if you are ever bored I would love your help.
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: .....the klokocka collective............ :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
Oh, and you're soo right that people on either side of the fence deserve not to be judged.
Aleta, TBAGS is the best name ever!!!! I want to be a memeber sooo bad! LOL
Posts: 1,836TBAGS! That's too cool.
Doesn't this kind of go hand in hand with the other post going on right now about to enter or not to enter??? To me it kind of does. I honestly just saw the TBAS thing this week while searching around on eBay. Saw it in a listing "PROUD MEMBER OF TBAS" with the logo and all.... and thought...hmmm wonder what that is, it's being used as kind of a selling point, an accolade of sorts..what is it? Then I saw it was an Ebay group. Ebayers got together and formed a group and vote others (ebayers??) (that they consider work worthy) into the group. "That's nice" I thought, and I didn't really think anything else of it.
So just as the other post right now asks..... as a collector what does this REALLY mean? I guess it depends on what it means to you the collector or what it means to you the artist to have something extra acknowledging the work.....but like the other post asks: which ones are worth anything or better or a guarantee of anything??
My opinion isn't really either way except for the monetary thing...what's the monthly income got to do with the art?? Meeting sales quotas is just too corporate for my bones right now. Maybe someone could further explain that piece. (?)
:hug:
~Chrissi
Apple Dumpling DesignsI posted those questions very early (first actually) and then deleted my post. I think that is the big question...what does income and $$$ have to do with artistic insight, workmanship, etc...and why does it have to be your primary source of income. If that were on ANY application for a membership I would respectfully pass and tell them it's none of their business. I would want my craft (any craft) judged on the craft...not the dollars it brings in. Our world is too concerned about money as it is. I would not want the additional pressure of having to meet some quota.
After reading this post...I'm starting to view guilds, societies or whatever you call them a bit differently. I always thought they were based on the artistry & workmanship....not $$.
Hugs,
Shantell
That is my exact point, Shelli.
I will go back to typing in primitive, folk and altered art. The idea didn't even occur to me that these groups might be exclusive. I thought they were just like minded individuals in their art. Call me niave.
Warmest hugs, :hug:
Aleta
JD, 
Please do not confuse TBAGS with TBAS. TBAGS was my idea for like minded artists to grow, learn and share ideas. It was not meant to be exclusive. I do not know who started TBAS and I'm not a member.
I just want to set the record straight so there is absolutely NO confusion.
Warmest hugs, :hug:
Aleta
I don't know why anyone is feeling bothered by or excluded from this group. It's certainly not secret as far as I am concerned...I didn't join it to be exclusive and I don't set myself apart from anyone. If the membership is secret it's news to me!!!
I was asked to join having no knowledge of the other members..there could have been 100s as far as I was concerned. The fact that there were only 4 or 5 at the time wasn't an issue...it's a growing group and one which is setting itself up to be a group of like minded people all with the same interests. They are entitled to set down their own rules and membership criteria...no-one has to comply ..no-one has to join. To be fair to the organisers I think it's about trying to set up a group of folks all with the same goals ...and as it's only just started up it's not fair to make a judgement about something which in principle is a great idea but has a long way to go.
The fact that it's an ebay group is obviously going to make sales a part of it because ebay is about sales. As far as I am concerned there is no monetary target to meet because my business is my business and I sell what I like when I like. But I don't imagine for one minute that the groups criteria is really seriously interested in turnover. If I have a criticism of it, it's that it's an ebay group...and not everyone sells on ebay so you automatically exclude those who don't sell on ebay.
I for one won't be posting anything on my auctions that says I am a proud member of TBAS or any other group. For the same reason that I won't state that I am an award winning artist till I feel I am ready. At the moment this group has still to prove itself and its worth...and I won't make a judgement either way till it has a track record and has the reputation it's set out to gain.
The only reason for these groups , to my mind, is because we all work in such isolation from others that they are a great link to the world outside our studio...but my customers couldn't care less if I am a member of the Womens Institute, the Church Choir or the Secret Seven. I often think I shouldn't be in any group since I spend far too much time at the computer..but without the contact from others interested in bears I think there would be little fun ..so that is why I joined the two groups I am in.
If TBAS turns out to be a popularity contest ...I won't win that one either!!
Apple Dumpling DesignsHi Jenny,
I think the question of secrecy comes from Bobbie's second post....here's the section where she quoted a reply she received personally.
endorian's reply:
Hello Bobbie, The membership list is private because we didn't want people writing the members and asking to be invited , because it will be out of their control and even mine, on who gets final membership approval, (because each memeber has only one vote) that way there won't be any hard feelings if an artist is not voted in. When Nominations are open, members put artist names in for consideration, then that artist is researched by a panel of moderators, if their work is approved and the artist to be shown as a person of high integrity, then their name is brought to the group for a vote. Membership is very limited , that is why those that are nominated do not know they are being nominated until they are voted into the group.
I hope this answers some of your questions.
Just bringing forward why it make ME think of secrecy...I'm only speaking for myself.
Hugs,
Kran-Beary'sI can tell you that I am behind the idea of a bear artisan guild, along the lines of NIADA, which has explicit and difficult-to-achieve criteria for membership, 100%. It seems like it would be a good thing for our industry; to me, anyway. And the idea of holding artists to high standards of execution and business conduct appeals to me as well.
Well said Shelli. I think there are a lot of bear artists who would be in favor of an Artist's Guild. However, I don't think that any Guild could ever be formed by invitation only. It's just too subjective, and the beauty of art varies with the beholder and must be supported by the collector.
Niada has been in existence for over 30 years, and is supported by Patrons and Friends. Many of these people are collectors. It's also a corporate organization. Entry to Niada as an artist is TOUGH...and consequently well perceived by the collector. Here's an excerpt from membership requirements:
At the annual conference, the Standards Committee (eight voting Artist members) and the Standards Committee Chair, review submitted slides and award points. Applying artists receiving 30 or more points on slides, of a possible 40, will be invited to submit a portfolio approximately January, of the following year. The portfolio will be circulated among committee members who will again award points. Artists receiving 30 or more points for their portfolio will be invited to submit at least three dolls for a vote by the full membership. Election is by majority. Artists with a score of 30 or more points on slides, but with a portfolio score lower than 30, may resubmit a portfolio in the following year without paying an additional application fee after advising the Standards Committee Chair.
Further requirement include originality, excellence of execution, and a visible personal style.
You can read more at www.niada.org
My own feeling is that if you want to be a part of a group, great. Any group. Groups are wonderful and serve a purpose for comradeship.
However, I don't believe that a subjective, invitational group could ever fill the need of a guild or association that promotes excellence in artistry, simply because of the lack of objectivity.
Gotta go make a bear now! Have a great night!
hugs,
nt
Shantell...I didn't know that and I wasn't aware when I joined. ( I didn't notice it on Bobbies post!!) I don't see it as such a bad thing though if that's what the organisers think would happen.
I can't see it happening like that though..I think it will turn out to be just a group of artists talking about bears and stuff...and whether or not others will want to join , time alone will tell.
