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Posts: 119I admit I am new but can people explain what needle felting is?
are you like taking a handfull of polyfill and somehow tying it together to get a shape?
how?
yes... I really honestly dont know... hey I have only made one bear so far and in that learned that tapastry needles don't have good points.
articicle
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)You've got a cool sense of humor... Tapestry needles!!!
OK, here's the skinny on NFing.
Using clean, unspun (not yet yarn) carded fiber, like sheep's wool, a felting needle is thrust through the mass (a handful is a good starting place) and entangling the fibers together. As they tangle, the 'spaces' between the fibers are made smaller & smaller, until a compact, firm ball or other 3-D shape has been made.
The needles are industrially produced (for the textile trade) and have barbs (slots) formed (don't use those with cut barbs - they cut the fiber) along the edges of the bottom third of the needle.
The artistry in NFing comes from knowing (after experimenting) which needle size/shape to use with the thousands of different types of animal fiber and when & how much fiber to add to individual spots to build what's in your mind's eye.
Stalking, over there on the left, is a miniature polar bear, has won several international awards and measures 2.5" long & 1.75" tall. Choosing an appropriate micron (thickness) and lengthed fiber, particular needles and sculpting with the fiber like clay results in works like this. The artistry comes in knowing which to choose.
Needle Felting is a needle, some wool & your Imagination!
Back Road BearsBobbie - you have likely answered this question before so forgive me for not staying up later to search for the answer....
How, what, where does one buy the 'right' felting needles? I've been getting my wool from the local yarn shop and needles from eBay in large lots as I use them when teaching classes. They have the slots but if one were to look for a brand or source what would you suggest? My yarn shop sells the needles with cut barbs so I guess it's easy to get the wrong ones if you don't know better!
Posts: 119thanks for not laughing at me... this sounds very neat. some generous person has offered to send me a needle and some wool to try it out. What a swell christmas gift.
by the way I actually did sew my first bear with tapastry needles, hey I'm new and honestly am learning as I go along.
articicle
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)>>>>How, what, where does one buy the 'right' felting needles? I've been getting my wool from the local yarn shop and needles from eBay in large lots as I use them when teaching classes. They have the slots but if one were to look for a brand or source what would you suggest? My yarn shop sells the needles with cut barbs<<<
Great question, Daphne, thx for the opportunity to give more info w/o seeming to be self-serving. You may as well benefit from my adventures into seeking out the best sources.
No, this question has never been asked in this guise, so you'd likely find only bits & pieces about in in other topics.
I have identified 4 major needle manufacturers in the world: USA, Britain, Germany & Japan/China. I wrote to all, explaining what I do and requested company information as well as purchasing a sample of their product(s).
The USA company, Foster, is located in the state above me, WI to IL, and were first to respond. There are approx 50 different needle sizes/types/shapes available. There may be even more - after I settled on the 8+ that I thought I could use, I stopped counting....
From Britain's Wingham Woolworks, I purchased a sample set and was directed to the company info on their website.
A friend sent me a sample of Germany's Groz-Beckhardt (sp?); they are of the same (excellent) quality as Foster but more expensive. They have a US address in the south-east.
I never did hear back from Organ Needle Co - there were e addies, fax numbers and snails for both Japan & China but I got no responses from any of the contacts I used.
The WWW's needles I received are of an inferior quality. I believe the barbs are cut rather than 'formed', a Foster term. I haven't yet examined them under a microscope (which intend to do for book research to back up my personal opinions).
Ppl will ask my why their sculpture seems to be falling apart the more the needle it, in an effort to get it more firmly needled in construction or in attaching 2 pcs together. There are 2 obvious answers, but impossible to correctly analyze w/o having the work & tools in hand.
1 - the fiber is weak and breaks under pressure. Many dietary, stress & environmental factors cause this to happen. Needling puts undue & repeated pressure on the fiber and break them; the more you needle the more they continue to fall apart.
2 - the needle barbs have been cut into the shaft edges rather than forming them with beveled edges everywhere. Picture taking a whittling knife to a piece of wood,: the initial cuts that curl back from the main bulk of the wood have abrupt, sharp angled edges. Using needles with cut barbs are like taking knives & scissors to the fibers; initially, with the fiber spaced far apart it's not as noticeable, but the more compact the pc becomes (fibers in closer proximity to each other) the more they are shearing apart.
The Groz-Beckert needles were nice but the pricing info I received from the company over 4 years ago was more than half again as much as the Foster's.
There are literally dozens of configurations of the barb placements. I choose to carry sizes that have barbs placed farther apart for the beginning stages, when one must thrust completely through the fiber mass to bind it all together. Later on, after the core has been formed and firmed, adding more fiber needs needles that penetrate perhaps only half as deeply. And for finishing work, barbs placed mostly near the tip are more appropriate as you're working only the top coat, finish layer.
Think in terms of what stage you're working in your sculpture and the size choice will naturally occur to you.
I'll not address matching the different fibers to different sizes/styles/types of needles. The only needles I don't recommend or see a need for, are the teardrop shaped ones that have 8 closely spaced barbs on the one existing edge. These were created for a specific use in textile manufacturing - to push the fibers being needled down through a warp & weave fabric and not touch the woven background. The needles are set at a 45 degree angle to the fabric's straight grain, assuring that it doesn't cut through the warp or weft threads.
All wholesale needles are sold in the minimum bulk quantity of 1000 per size. It's a steep investment to initially supply yourself. However, some of the prices from retailers - including eBay - are ridiculous. To stay in business one must keep the wolf from the door, but the profit margin is out-of-all-proportion to a reasonable return on the financial outlay. Please contact me for pricing - I do offer one of the most comprehensive array of sizes at the best prices I've seen online. I also include printed NFing info with all sales. I sell from 1 to 10,00 to anyone, with near wholesale prices for the entire box of 100 (because I don't have to spend time counting out and repackaging) and offer a special pricing to all fellow listees. I just need to know what list we share.
I've hesitated to give this information, as I've done the research for my book, but as unseen obstacles have blocked my path to compiling the manuscript over the past several years, others have stepped in and have repeated misinformation.
To set the record straight, because factoids (info seen in print and becomes accepted as the truth) are read and repeated: Needle Felting is definitely NOT an ancient, almost forgotten craft! Their history has somehow become intermingled with that of WET Felting, which is of course, prehistoric.
The needles arose out of fairly recent industrialization. I've done my homework for my book and can state that these have been in existence for about 50 years. One of the many first-uses were for automobile headliner & padding materials. Unless Fred Flintstone's car had a headliner that I've somehow missed seeing, it is not ancient or even vintage.
About 25 years ago, artists David & Eleanor Satinwood (whom I've been in contact with and received permission to quote) gave needles to Wet Felting artist Ayala Talpai, to play around with and see what she could use in embellishing designs on her handmade felt.
Alan asked another question:
>>>are the finished bears able to be played gently with, carried around in a pocket, and handled or are they strictly to look at on a shelf type.<<<
Yes & No.
I personally work my pieces until rock solid, or as firmly as a particular breed of fiber can be needled. After spending 1 - 2 weeks on a sculpture, I don't want it to change shape. But there's a purpose for all work, no matter how softy or firmly it's worked. It all depends on the purpose. If someone would like a Christmas scene of a snowman, Santa and a polar bear or reindeer, it wouldn't be necessary to work as long on the piece as I do. This will be set on a mantle and viewed for 3 weeks out of the year. I would still needle them to my own personal level of firmness but there's nothing wrong with doing a quick sculpting to shape them. Mikki Klug's work is like this and we're fortunate to have artists who freely say that their work is softly sculpted. Frankly, it's a whole lot easier to sculpt like this. Students are often afraid to continue to needle, once they got a cheek to curve or a foot to form exactly like they wanted it to be. But suppose he first person to pick it up squeezes the face or sets it down and pushes the foot out of place? The shaping is gone. I'd much prefer to think that unless it's dropped into a campfire or the house pet gets hold of it - NOTHING is going to change the shape I formed because it's solid from inside out.
So depending upon your end result purpose, short season decorative work to cuddle my teddy handling, all degrees of needling are appropriate. And they should be clearly stated in any text about the piece: if you squeeze it between your fingers and it compresses more that 1/4" - 1/2", it should not be described as 'very firmly felted'. I cannot tell you the number of eBay auctions I've purchased, to test the artist claim of this. I have yet to find one that meets the minimum of firmness.... And several pieces (shipped in bubblewrap and a flat envelope!!) have even had the outer layers begin to separate from the inner base.
I have a feeling that this is going to fill a page by itself.....
>>>I know a person that has some sheep and goats. is the wool right off shearing valuable for this? If I can get some (I have to find out when they shear their sheep) would you like some?<<<<<
Before I purchase anything, I always find out the breed of animal being shorn. Then I determine if it'll be useful to me as either research or appropriate for the size and type of work that I do. You've just read those 2 common words - size and type - and I'm not doing them justice, as each of them are a chapter by themselves - saved for The Book!
Secondly, fiber must be cleaned before use. (I purchase only clean fiber as I have neither space, facilities or inclination to spend time doing that.) 3 things come instantly to mind:
1 - Oily/dirty fiber attracts more dirt/dust/air motes, which makes it unsuitable for needling in that state. (And the odor/smell of the lanolin and dirty fiber gags me....)
2 - After a particular length of time, the oils & dirt 'coagulate/evaporate/thicken so that they're nearly impossible to remove. One of my first purchases was an all black Wensleydale fleece, beautiful long pencil-thick curls, 'in the grease' or raw and quite expensive. I left it in its bag for over a year and found a glued-together mass that would not scour clean. I had to throw it on the compost pile :o( Lesson learned....
Some animals (some of the camelids don't have lanolin but all animals live outdoors and are incredibly dirty) don't need as much cleaning effort but it's still a time investment and a hazard in storing this in the same building as clean fiber.
3 - Clothes moths are attracted to the 'dirt' surrounding the fibers and to a very small degree, a couple of the protein components of the fiber itself. Once a dirty fleece is discovered, you'll have a hard time eradicating this pest, from both your fiber stashes and your personal clothing storage.
Raw or in-the-grease fibers are sometimes spun into thread/yarn because they handle better that way, but then are cleaned before weaving or knitting with them
If you were to Needle Felt fiber like this, you're just inviting the Clothes Moth to a Party!
So I do appreciate the offer, but I prefer to purchase from small farm breeders and companies that I know the quality and condition of their products. By all means, accept some of the fiber you'll get for free - it's great to practice on!
>>>>I'm wondering if anyone would have those needles around here. The list says that some have cutters on the and I might get the wrong ones.
You can Google felting needles and price them.(See above comments on needle quality - and write me when you're ready.) Always demand to know the brand name (most suppliers don't know their own products!) as well as the breed of sheep fiber you're buying. It's the minimum that all suppliers should tell you. Be an informed consumer!
There are small to huge sheep farmers all across this country, with a large concentration of them in our northern state bordering Canada as well as up into lower Canada, from WA & BC right across to Maine and the Canadian Maritimes. I spend a lot of time Googling (wish I'd bought stock way back when!). Write to the individuals, describing what you do and ask for a pinch or small sample of their products. You may be as lucky as I have been and receive a small handful -sometimes enough for a whole mini sculpture!
This will tell you several things: their pricing, the quality of their fiber, how they care for their flocks (cleanliness) and how suitable it is for NFing.
There are several suppliers that I wholeheartedly recommend, from a very large, 150+ year old company in PA, to small flock owners that do everything themselves.
I think I need a break - new knees are getting restless and I've got to work out the kinks. Anything else I can help with I'm happy to. But I do have to save some stuff for The Book or no one would buy it, having read everything prior to its publication!
'Bear' Bottoms OriginalsWOW, Bobbie. That was worth all the time I spent to sit and read it and then some!!!! Thanks for taking the time to type all of that. I am so much more informed than I was before I read it. You'll have to let us all know when you publish your book, because I'd certianly like to get one!
Thanks, Bobbie!
Kimberly W.
P.S. I know exactly what you mean about dirty wool... I've bought wool that (I thought) was supposed to be clean and ready to use for NFing that I found to still have twigs, dirt, residual oil and a 'wonderfully' 
funky scent to it. Won't buy that kind again.....
It is interesting to see how needle felting is becoming the new "craft". Thru my quitling /patchwork supplier in USA, I have been able to order two new books on Needle felting projects for around the house, as well as some needle felting "mats " and "fine and "hard needles" I was also told that in the New Year they would be keeping wool.
This needle felting technique is used more for applique, where it is done onto a garment, and the mat is placed under the garment .
I am promoting and selling Foster, Wizpick and now Clover needles in SA, as well as the locally produced wool roving/sliver and imported fleece from New Zealand. It is hard work, as I am still learning myself, and Dry felting is new to SA crafters/bear makers. As it is introduced in SA, I am seeing some more info on it , in the local magazines, and even some kits being offered for sale, good for me, as if people get "bitten by the bug" they will be needing more supplies.
articicle- needle felting - What confused me in the beginning, was what was "Sliver" and what was "roving" and then you had stuff that looked like a bunch of cotton wool. Since then I found out that SLiver and Roving are the same thing- depends where in the world you live, in New Zealand it is called Sliver.
Briefly the fleece is taken from the sheep, cleaned, then sent off to be carded ( combed thru) , it is at this stage that one will then use it for needle felting. Depending on what sheep it comes from, you will get all the different types of wool roving/sliver. Some will be very coarse, some will be very soft and fine. You will then with the right felting needle start start compressing/felting this to start getting the shape you want.
Different size needles are available and from experience you will soon see which needle is the right one to start off with and to finish off with.
Lots of kits come wit just two needles a fine and a hard needle, but as you get more experienced you can purchase different types, just like you advanced from sewing a bear with a tapestry needle to maybe a finer needle today.
From my understanding , if the fleece is not carded (combed), but just cleaned, you will then get it in the state that looks like cotton wool. This can also then be needle felted into whatever shape you want to create.
Once you get started , you will take a small amount of wool roving/sliver and with a foam block under your work, start poking at the piece you are working on, and then the world is at your feet as you can create whatever you want.
Thru the E-zbear University, Judi Paul who is on this forum offers a felting face class- I did this class and this is how I got started. It is an excellent course to do.
the Dry method how long it will stay around who can tell, the wet process has been around as mentioned for years, this is where the wool roving/sliver is mixed with a "pure" soap and is then made into "material" which can be shaped into what you want. I have seen handbags made, kiddies shoes etc.
I hope that this helps a bit- as I mentioned I am still LEARNING, and each day I learn something new, the above is what I understand about needle felting.
Lynette
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)
Kim - do I know about filthy fiber! This person sold kits on eBay for about 6 months.
Another jump-on-the-current-bandwagon retailer.
They were advertised as realistic style bears - polar & grizzly. Of course I had to bite!
The core was 'prefelted'. Inappropriate down (sheep type/breed) wool was used, a type that never needles down hard/firm. This was baseball sized (the white) which squeezed down to tennis ball size in one hand. Half mis-description and half the fiber type.
The brown fiber was directed to be wrapped around the core to form the bear's shape. Those that have studied with me know how against that I am and why.
But the shock was after I put the brown wool to the side - to see what was left on my photo backdrop.... another compost pile addition. This never even got unrolled; it all fell out during the process of putting it on top of the white for the pix.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Roving - Sliver:
There's only a slight difference between the 2.
Roving can be a bit thicker and may have a slight twist to it, and sliver (SLY ver) usually doesn't.
The purpose for this has more to do with the put-up for spinning - worsted vs, woolen style of spinning & resulting yarn.
Fiber that has not been carded or combed is sometines called Clouds, though different wool processors create different qualities with it. I have an excellent one in Maine and a large MI company that produced very unsatifactory clouds.
You just have to shop around and keep trying all that you locate.
Swan Valley BearsHi Bobbie,
Since we seem to have a little discussion going here, I've been wondering, when do you need to card the fiber?? I have a carder (is that what you call it?) It belonged to my great grandmother. They grew cotton in the south in the 1930's. Would you card the dyed roving that is smooth and "in-line"? Do you know what I mean by that? I've noticed that it does help to pull and pick it apart with my fingers before felting.
Articicle, you must be learning a lot from your question, huh? You will love needlefelting once you try it.
Posts: 119I just want to thank everyone again to be so willing to dive into the "needlefelting for dummies" OR NEEDLEFELTING 101 REMEDIAL.
being new to all this I have found all the information very useful. I honestly didn't even know the words roving or sliver refering to sheep.
maybe this subject should get tagged somehow for us who are the truely new.
-articicle.
(I won't be new for long!)
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Another good question, Patty! Good basic info that isn't usaully discussed.
You say that you have 'a' cotton carder from your grgrandmother; this would seem to refer to a drum carder, with its infeed tray and a large tubular drum, covered with carding cloth. This is a fantastic find, as the cloths are very fragile and likely to rust or have the pins/teeth break. They can be realigned but the whole cloth covering should be replaced if they're rusty of broken off.
Yes, fiber should be refluffed just before use, even if it's been carded originally. Most of us purchase ours and storage and/or shipping allows it to settle down. The easiest beginning starts with fiber that's all evenly fluffed up just prior to working it, whether spinning or needling. A bit about what we use later, first to distinguish what you really have.
I ask about having a drum carder because hand cards are plural (2) and are referred to aa hand card(er)s or a pair of cards.
Also, having cotton carding cloth on the surface isn't appropriate for wool as there are many more teeth per sq inch and they're made of finer gauged wire. Pulling wool through the teeth will damage the teeth and not be as effective as using wool cards, of which there are at least 2 different sizes of gauges.
If you were to work only very finest fibers like angora rabbit, merino, alpaca/llama, etc.. what you have would work, providing the equipment was in good condition.
I have a vintage set of cotton cards (eBay) which have seen much use and have a few rusty teeth but I love them (admited Tool Junky here!!)
I use 2 pairs of Ashford cards, the standard and a set of student cards - slightly smaller. In my kits I recommend ppl look at the website
http://www.joyofhandspinning.com/hand-carding.html
to see how to use them. There should be enough fiber loaded onto the first card that the teeth do not meet/engage with each other. This bends and twists the teeth out of place.
The cards produce an oval cloud of fluffed fiber called a rolag; spinners set these aside and draft directly from the ends of them when spinning thread or yarn. They cost between $40 - 70 depending on where you find them.
In place of them I recommend using a pair of pet grooming brushes which cost $5 each. On a NFing/wool list I mentioned having 'discovered' this cheap substitute, and was promptly shot down by the spinners and wool producers as them having been used for ages by spinners. What I meant was that I brought it to us bear people, new to the wool world, as there was no prior info about it in the 25 year history of hand needle felting. If the spinners used them they sure weren't talking about it! That's what's so great about this list - the free exchange of help, info and no put-downs!!!!
On the fiber you speak of, you more than likely have Top, a put-up that has been carded and combed, (I have several styles of combs too...) which removes the shorter fibers in the fleece, leavinglong fiber suitable for spinning worsted yarn. You can needle this type of fiber, but you'll work a lot longer & harder because of the fibers' length and smoothness. Top tends to have a sheen to it - making it very eye-catching and attractive in ads - due to the nature of the individual breeds of sheep that are used in this way.
What needle felts easiest are those with a matte finish, at least a moderate amount of crimp, about 3" in length and an un-aligned appearance. While it's possible to change the alignment of the fibers, that adds another layer to the work time - and this takes longer than creating fabric bears already! Knowing the breeds of sheep that have better DRY felting fiber is half the battle won. All fiber can be worked but there are better choices, given each of our different styles of working. Those that mix up the fiber by hand, (in my opinion only!!!) don't work the fiber long enough. The reason becomes visible the firmer you needle. If you're creating a more softly needle work, there is still enough air space between each fiber to not be obvious that the fibers are still aligned. Once you start to really compact the fibers, 'stripes' appear on the surface, showing the fibers laying in the same direction like ribbons. In several cases this would be part of the design, say - showing the strength and direction of a muscle. But then the whole pc would include these orientation lines, on purpose. They aren't appealing when they appear randomly. Rather, they show an unskilled or inexperienced control of the fiber. I've got many images of the differences in these looks, made for my writing.
I think I covered everything in your post - off to therapy -
All of my writing becomes copyrighted by the act of putting it into written form. I'd much appreciate honoring copyrights, as this is material I use in my business. THANKS!
Back Road BearsWow, Bobbie... my coffee is now cold but I feel so much more in tune with needlefelting materials and am now itching to get my hands back into my wool and start felting. I want more needles!!!!
So, first I'm off to check out Foster's site just to see this huge selection of needles. Will be interesting to read up on them, see what all else they are ued for. Then I might be back to pick your brain and buy from you as I don't need 1000 needles at present!
I think it would be fun to visit a sheep farm where they shear, wash and card the wool. Bobbie, you mentioned a place in Maine. As I'm moving there and know the state quite well would you be willing to email me their contact info?
Normally I am more focused on what to do with the supplies once they are in front of. It's their future I focus on! But this is one time when I'm just as interested in knowing how to really seek out the best materials, their orgins, how they are made, etc.
Mohair (also requiring research as to orgin, milling process, finished results, dyes used, etc.) will still be my first love but there is just so much more freedom in NFing and I find it to be therapeutic most times!
Thanks for the inside info, Bobbie. Perhaps 2007 will be the right year for getting that book put together and sent to press!
Swan Valley BearsWow, Bobbie ! ! ! Thank you so much. I have a pair of hand cards. They seem to be in pretty good condition. They still have fiber in them. I love the idea of the dog grooming brushes, though. I think I'll pick up a pair. I don't want to damage the hand carders since they're sort of family heirlooms. I'm off to check out the website you listed. I have some fiber that needs carding.
I can't wait for your book. 
Swan Valley BearsBobbie, that website had a great demonstration on carding. Who knew? I never would have figured that out right. Anyone who wants to know how to card your wool, check out the website in Bobbie's post above.
