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BruinwerksCheryl, could you elaborate? What's a CLEAN SLATE SWAP?.[/color]
Honestly I just made that title up! :redface: I was thinking that it was a way to not have people bring 'baggage' from other swaps or message boards to TT. I think the swap issues that some people have (of which I have no personal knowledge), have occurred on other boards, not on TT.
So no PMs (or PMS for that matter :crackup: ) about the alleged sins of others will be tolerated - From this point on, everyone would be judged on their behavior on this board and on TT swaps for stuff that takes place on this board. I honestly don't know if this is possible or that anyone would take this on but I think it would prevent some of the things that Gina endured (again, something I don't have personal knowledge of)
If the advisors don't want to hold a 'list' then at the end of an organized swap, a list would be posted of completed and uncompleted transactions and the next swap organizer would be responsible to look at this.
I think Craftster's swap rules http://www.craftster.org/swapsinfo.html#anchor3
seem to work well and they have almost 85,000 members but they do rely on their moderators for assistance.
Just some random ideas made clear as mud 
Again, a great topic to serve the greater good Shelli!
Cheryl 
K P BearSwaps should be fun and not too complicated. It is done jsut for fun and friendship as many of you have stated and I agree with all of that.
Fun and friend ship and simple.
Lena 
Posts: 1,836To clarify: Teddy Talk, Intercal, and the Advisors on this forum, cannot and will not get involved in the monitoring and policing of swaps in any way. You MUST realize and assume that each swap is a distinct and separate "event" and that swaps will only occur here if individual members pro-actively bring them into being. Being one who mentioned I personally DO
indeed realize, but in the spirit of sharing voice and talking outloud was mentioning, as Cheryl did, forums that do offer "swap moderators". Therefore, there IS no group of "moderators" that can "hold onto" lists of no-gooders over time; who can ensure that for the NEXT swap, persons A, B, and C who never sent their bears are banned from participation.
Just wanted to clarify. Me too
Thoughts? what happens to those who don't get an asterik at the end of the swap? Is it that they can not participate in future swaps until that original swap obligation is fufilled? Will there be a standarized thread/subject title to make searching for swaps/past swaps easier for future organizers?
Thanks for all your thoughtful input. I'm seeing certain trends appear that I'm certain will help refine the swap process going forward. Your time and efforts are appreciated!
what happens to those who don't get an asterik at the end of the swap?
That's not for me, personally, to say. As I envisioned it, when I proposed the asterisk option, my idea was that NOTHING would "happen" to those people whose names never received a little star. Rather, my idea was that TT readers -- including future swap coordinators -- would be able to view for themselves which members fulfilled their swap commitments, and which did not, and then they could draw their own conclusions, about how to run their own swaps. This leaves the responsibility for censoring participants to the NEXT swap coordinator(s); either the immediate next one, or the many who follow.
Is it that they can not participate in future swaps until that original swap obligation is fufilled?
That would make sense, actually. Sometimes people need a little extra time or, as mentioned many times in this thread, life just gets in the way. I'd think that once someone fulfills his or her swap obligation, their swap would be marked with an asterisk just like anyone else's would be marked, upon completion and shipment of their swap item. Thus making them eligible again to participate in future swaps.
Will there be a standarized thread/subject title to make searching for swaps/past swaps easier for future organizers?
There's no talk of that at this point; we're not planning a new forum or anything. Just thinking of helping readers avoid confusion and heartache by creating "boilerplate" which can be kept and found on this forum -- probably as a "sticky" topic somewhere -- which swap coordinators can access and must use to introduce their swaps, if they want to post about those swaps HERE. Everything is still under discussion and of course what's being said here by all of you is being seriously considered and taken into consideration! So, thanks again for your input and honesty!
On other notes... It would be nice to be able to offer swap moderators here at TT but all the Advisors are volunteers and frankly it's such a big headache to coordinate these swaps that I don't think any of us wants to take that extra responsibility on, since we already spend too much time here at TT as it is being cheerleaders (as Dilu calls us) for all things bear!!! 
Plus, there's a liability issue for the site Administrators that I think they'd rather sidestep entirely. As we've seen, swaps can get complicated, and feelings can get hurt. That's a lot to unravel and fix, and TT wasn't set up to be that kind of forum. I liked the rules and guidelines from Craftster a lot, but they were a huge screen full of parameters, and I think the repeated comments here about "friendship" and "simple" really sum up best what people most want from swaps at TT. Hope this makes sense and that I'm understanding the majority accurately.
Keep it coming; this is shaping up to be a very informative thread. Again, thanks!
Terries Bears1. YES or NO: Have you ever participated in a random teddy bear swap? By random teddy bear swap, I mean a swap where your name is placed among a pool of names of participating artists, and then you are paired up with another bear artist randomly by the swap coordinator.
Yes, 3 times. The first two times were a great experience but the last time I sent my bear and never did get one in return
2. AGREE or DISAGREE: All participants in random swaps must agree that they will accept, without public or private complaint, any bear that comes their way, as a condition of participation.
Agree
3. YES or NO: Do you think swaps should be sub-organized into categories?
No
4. If swaps are sub-organized into categories, do you think, for example, that mini makers should swap with mini makers?
or....
Do you think each participant should be able to CHOOSE which category he/she wishes to trade with? For example, should a mini maker be able to specify that he/she wants to trade for a "biggun" bear?
4. If you answered YES to question (3.), which categories would you like to see used? Mark all that apply:
(a) Size (small, medium, large... or mini, medium, biggun.)
(b) Style (contemporary, traditional, distressed, anime)
(c) Skill level of bearmaker (beginner, intermediate, advanced)
(d) Medium (needlefelted, mohair, synthetic)
5. If you marked "skill level of bearmaker" as a possible category, in question (4.), do you have any suggestions about the criteria a swap coordinator might use to determine the skill level of each participating artist? Years making bears? Price per bear? Awards and honors? Is this even a realistic option?
6. How long should swap participants be given to complete and ship their swap bear?
2 months should be long enough
7. What, if any, should the consequences be for those who commit to a swap, but never send a bear to their partner, even after receiving one themselves?
A list with completed & uncompleted transactions sounds like a good idea. I am sure that no one who volunteers for a swap maliciously plans on not returning a bear but if they haven't be able to make one for their last swap partner, they shouldn't be able to join in a new swap.
8. AGREE or DISAGREE: The swap coordinate should not have to police swap participants. Any problems which arise are the responsibility of each swap pairing to resolve.
Agree
Posts: 1,836Me asking: Will there be a standarized thread/subject title to make searching for swaps/past swaps easier for future organizers?
Shelli: There's no talk of that at this point; we're not planning a new forum or anything. Just thinking of helping readers avoid confusion and heartache by creating "boilerplate" which can be kept and found on this forum -- probably as a "sticky" topic somewhere -- which swap coordinators can access and must use to introduce their swaps, if they want to post about those swaps HERE. Everything is still under discussion and of course what's being said here by all of you is being seriously considered and taken into consideration! So, thanks again for your input and honesty!
Now Me again: ( 
I talk to much :crackup: )
Oh No, I wasn't talking about starting a designated section for swaps or anything like that. I was referring to the actual "subject line" of a posting. The title of the swap (am I using the right lingo?? I'm not sure :doh: ), could that be standardized to one thing or contain a standardized phrase at least for easy referencing. I only asked because some of our titles have nothing to do with the thread itself. If we're asking people to refer back to a list within a thread it might be nice to search and find it with ease. That was my question.
:hug:
~Chrissi
good for you Chrissi..... trying to get to the nitty gritty even though it is getting more and more involved. Seems this whole situation has now taken on a life of its own and will still need more clarification and also more special placing as you are suggesting just to keep it well visible and easily found by swapees/swappers.. and also and especially swap co-ordinators as it appears much will fall to them if things go awry. It would definitely be best if we could have just continued in the spirit of fun; friendship and ease...but after all the moaning and whining of late.... this is pretty much where we are at this point. And you are so right about not being able to track down a topic by the title of a thread.... it is impossible.....
Drea's Bears1. YES or NO: Have you ever participated in a random teddy bear swap? By random teddy bear swap, I mean a swap where your name is placed among a pool of names of participating artists, and then you are paired up with another bear artist randomly by the swap coordinator.
YES, THE CHRISTMAS ORNAMENT SWAP AND LOVED IT!
2. AGREE or DISAGREE: All participants in random swaps must agree that they will accept, without public or private complaint, any bear that comes their way, as a condition of participation.
YES!
3. YES or NO: Do you think swaps should be sub-organized into categories?
HHHHHHMMMMMMMMM, NO.
4. If swaps are sub-organized into categories, do you think, for example, that mini makers should swap with mini makers?
or....
Do you think each participant should be able to CHOOSE which category he/she wishes to trade with? For example, should a mini maker be able to specify that he/she wants to trade for a "biggun" bear?
I SUPPOSE THIS MIGHT WORK, BUT THEN THIS MIGHT ALSO BE GETTING INTO THE "IF YOU WANT A PARTICULAR KIND OF BEAR YOU SHOULD CONSIDER A PRIVATE SWAP" TERRITOY?!
4. If you answered YES to question (3.), which categories would you like to see used? Mark all that apply:
(a) Size (small, medium, large... or mini, medium, biggun.)
(b) Style (contemporary, traditional, distressed, anime)
(c) Skill level of bearmaker (beginner, intermediate, advanced)
(d) Medium (needlefelted, mohair, synthetic)
A GIFT, IS A GIFT, IS A GIFT. IF SOMEONE WANTS TO MAKE A BEAR FOR ME THEN i WILL ACCEPT IT WITH OPEN ARMS..........LITERALLY!
5. If you marked "skill level of bearmaker" as a possible category, in question (4.), do you have any suggestions about the criteria a swap coordinator might use to determine the skill level of each participating artist? Years making bears? Price per bear? Awards and honors? Is this even a realistic option?
6. How long should swap participants be given to complete and ship their swap bear?
60 DAYS SHOULD DO IT. NOT LONGER THAN THAT THOUGH, THE EXCITEMENT AND ANTICIPATION WOULD KILL ME!
7. What, if any, should the consequences be for those who commit to a swap, but never send a bear to their partner, even after receiving one themselves?
THIS IS TERRIBLE. THERE SHOULD BE CONSEQUENCES FOR DIS-HONESTY. A SWAP SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A PRIVELAGE NOT A RIGHT, AND WHEN PEOPLE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR PRIVELAGES WE TAKE THEM AWAY!
THE PERSON SHOULD BE POSTED AND NOT ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE AGAIN IN A SWAP! IT JUST ISN'T RIGHT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OTHERS HONESTY! (I guess I feel a bit strongly about that! )
8. AGREE or DISAGREE: The swap coordinate should not have to police swap participants. Any problems which arise are the responsibility of each swap pairing to resolve.
THIS IS A TOUGH ONE! I BELIEVE GROWN-UPS SHOULD ACT LIKE GROWN-UPS.........BUT NOT ALL OF US DO. MAYBE IF THE ORGANIZER DOES NOT WANT THIS RESPONSABILITY THEY COULD ASK THAT SOMEONE VOULENTEER TO BE A MEDIATOR, OR MAYBE MORE THAN ONE SOMEONE. IF THERE ARE SEVERAL MEDIATORS THEN MOT JUST ONE PERSON IS GETTING THE BRUNT OF IT ALL. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD WORK BUT IT MIGHT BE WORTH A TRY.
My final thought on this all is that swaps should be for fun. If the rules of the swap are clearly stated at the begining like themed swap, anything swap, big bear swap, the organizer will/will not be policein issues....etc. then people can take part if they want or not and maybe organize their own darn swap! Of course this is all very easy to say from my comfy chair at my computer but putting it into action.....who knows?
With all that being said, I would LOVE to take part an a swap so if one comes up, count me in!
Hugs, :hug:
AndreaM
good for you Chrissi..... trying to get to the nitty gritty even though it is getting more and more involved.
Sometimes things have to start complicated so they can be defined clearly and pared down to "simple." The first few swaps I watched peripherally here at TT seemed, from my outside position, to run smoothly. But apparently, behind the scenes, given what's been reported since, my perception wasn't exactly the truth of things.
The idea with this thread was simply to ask people what they want and value in the swap process, and how they think it might best be accomplished -- with what guidelines and parameters. I don't think any one person has all the answers, hence the gathering of community/majority input.
I'm still not sure that the folks behind the scenes here at TT will go for any "official" swap guidelines or sticky threads being posted. Remember, I started this thread as Shelli the person, not Shelli the Advisor. I was just trying to do my nurturing best to let people air their ideas and grievances after I saw, across a number of threads in the forum, what appeared to me to be building discontent. I started this thread in the hopesthat it would provide a positive starting point -- Cheryl's "Clean Slate" idea -- for the next swap. Not necessarily to build a TT response to guiding swaps going forward. More to give people who want to swap independently some ideas about how they might do so with smoother results.
I think people are handling their comments beautifully here and that it's been really informative reading. We've all had a chance to draw conclusions about where the majority of people stand on this issue and knowledge is power, right?, so that can only be a good thing. I don't think it's swapping itself that's getting complicated. I do think that how people FEEL about swapping is complicated!
I think we've learned that most people think public swaps should always be random. I think we've seen that most people think that, if you want a certain kind of bear or a certain quality of bear, you should pursue swapping privately. I think we've seen that most people believe defining an artist by skill level will be like poking a hornet's nest and should be avoided. I think we've seen that most people would like some accountability on the part of swap participants. I think we've seen that most people expect participants in a random swap to graciously accept whatever they are sent, without complaint. And so on. All good things to have refined and chewed on for a bit!!!
The ultimate idea is certainly, as Veronica points out, that swappers and swap coordinators move toward simplifying the process, with clear, explicit, pared-down guidelines for participants that get laid out at the beginning of a swap.
Thanks again for all your input.
Posts: 1,836I'm sorry if it seemed like I was beating a dead horse, I honestly wasn't trying to be nitty gritty at all. I think I took the original post piece about maybe coming up with some "ground rules" as just that. Just some basics to make life easier. Stuff always seems more complicated when it's talked about out loud. When you get the finished product all nice, neat and ironed out it just seems quick and simple That's why big corps have brainstorming sessions for months prior to releasing info to the masses.
What's a "sticky thread"?! I'm not up on the lingo!! :crackup: :doh: ....I just looked it up. Ok,the constant threads at the top.....nope, that's not what I was talking about.
I still talk to much :crackup:
:hug:
~Chrissi
Chrissi....no you don't talk too much. I am sure I have you beat on that. But, this whole thing needs lots of sorting out to make the next one right..... and I just wanted to compliment you on sticking with it.... and thanks Shelli as well, for continuing to grind through all of the posts and info and simplifying it as much as you are doing. Good on ya!
By Nitty gritty Chrissi...... I just meant that you were getting right into the meat and potatoes of it ....the main substance...the ground rules as you say.... .... and that is what you are doing... not that you were being picky.either.....
Every post has to be so carefully thought out and worded doesn't it? so that we don't get the wrong ideas reading the wording......and/or hurt somebody's feelings or step on toes.... It is tough to say exactly what we mean in the right way and without being ...erm.... over"bear"ing or anything... We can't hear the voice inflection ...can't see the facial expressions... (and in my case the hand waving as I am French!) very annoying... okay everybody... web cams is next and we can really have a good old fashioned "sit down" where we can see each other! I do hope everybody is taking all of this with the usual "bag" of salt ....forget the "pinch" and we will get all the wrinkles ironed out nice and smooth. Ooooooh, I so want to do a little swap and have it all just go tickety boo!!
Actually, maybe that is the answer. Just doing smaller swaps? Suppose it is a thought..... . If we don't have to put weeks and months into them....like ...a whole "Biggun" bear... perhpas it would not be as upsetting if things didn't pan out well. The Christmas ornament swap seemed to be so successful....sigh......... .
Mountain Dreamer BearsIf we're asking people to refer back to a list within a thread it might be nice to search and find it with ease.
I see what you mean, Chrissie. It wouldn't do much good to have a list of asterisked and non-asterisked names if you can't find them later.
Maybe we could have a 'Swap' topic in the library where all future swaps could be easily pulled up for reference?
Here's my 2 cents on your questions Lady Oracle :
1. YES or NO: Have you ever participated in a random teddy bear swap? By random teddy bear swap, I mean a swap where your name is placed among a pool of names of participating artists, and then you are paired up with another bear artist randomly by the swap coordinator.
Yes, and I enjoyed them!
2. AGREE or DISAGREE: All participants in random swaps must agree that they will accept, without public or private complaint, any bear that comes their way, as a condition of participation.
Absolutely. If you can't do this, stick to private swaps.
3. YES or NO: Do you think swaps should be sub-organized into categories?
Possibly, but only if the coordinator chooses to and sets out the guidelines clearly.
4. If swaps are sub-organized into categories, do you think, for example, that mini makers should swap with mini makers?
or....
Do you think each participant should be able to CHOOSE which category he/she wishes to trade with? For example, should a mini maker be able to specify that he/she wants to trade for a "biggun" bear?
Again, I think this should be up to the discretion of the coordinator. I can see how trying to satisfy everyone's wants could be a headache at the least and impossible at the worst. An extreme example: What if there were 10 mini artists and only two biggun artists but everybody wanted a biggun? Or the other way around? Personally, I think the surprise of not knowing what you're going to get is part of the fun.
4. If you answered YES to question (3.), which categories would you like to see used? Mark all that apply:
(a) Size (small, medium, large... or mini, medium, biggun.)
(b) Style (contemporary, traditional, distressed, anime)
(c) Skill level of bearmaker (beginner, intermediate, advanced)
(d) Medium (needlefelted, mohair, synthetic)
I think (a) Size, (b) Style or (d) Medium would be the most viable options if the coordinator chose to do this.
5. If you marked "skill level of bearmaker" as a possible category, in question (4.), do you have any suggestions about the criteria a swap coordinator might use to determine the skill level of each participating artist? Years making bears? Price per bear? Awards and honors? Is this even a realistic option?
I don't think this is a realistic option. I agree with Chrissie on this one:
If persons REALLY want to control the "skill level" or "category" of a swap they should start private swaps. Purely Private Swaps. Email all of those you think fit the bill and host a private swap. BUT don't post a "look what I got from the highly skilled bear makers swap" so the rest of us can assume we're not "highly skilled"
6. How long should swap participants be given to complete and ship their swap bear?
Up to the coordinator. Some times of the year are busier than others and some themes may require more thought.
7. What, if any, should the consequences be for those who commit to a swap, but never send a bear to their partner, even after receiving one themselves?
I like Shelli's idea of making a list of participants in the swap thread and marking off those who complete their swap obligations. From there it should be up to the coordinator of any new swap to include or exclude people based on past swap performance. Life does throw us curve balls and sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that need to be considered.
8. AGREE or DISAGREE: The swap coordinate should not have to police swap participants. Any problems which arise are the responsibility of each swap pairing to resolve.
AGREE! The coordinator should lay down clear guidelines and criteria for the swap at the very beginning and (if we decide to do this) mark off completed swaps as they are reported. Those that wish to participate agree to follow the guidelines and criteria laid out. Coordinators cannot be responsible for the actions of individual participants.
P.S. Shelli, I think the boilerplate is an excellent idea.
Thanks everyone, so much, for your input. I'm bowing out of the thread at this point so that it can close out as something "owned" by you, the readers. If you'd like to continue to contribute your ideas and formulate further guidelines or posts on this subject which can direct future swaps, I encourage you to do so. You've all been just great in how you've discussed differing ideas in an honest and respectful way. Is it condescending to say I feel proud?
I think there's a lot of great information here that can help form the foundation for your swaps going forward. You've all been truly thoughtful with your comments and it's been a great and informative read. I hope that fleshing this out, and discovering the majority/community opinion, has been helpful to those of you who wish to coordinate swaps in the future. You have my permission to use any proposed boilerplate I may have suggested, or to edit it, better it, and make it your own.
As I've mentioned previously, as a policy, Teddy Talk, its Advisors, and Intercal can't officially sponsor or endorse swaps. So please take what's been said here and create something great with it! The rest is up to you!
And PS In answer to the inevitable question, "Will space be made somewhere on TT for swap boilerplate/guidelines/issues?" My answer has to be "Hey; I participated here as me, not as an Advisor. I don't know any more than you do!"
Kingfisher Farm Teddies and Folk ArtShelli, the swap I participated in this year, was for ornaments. Each swapper sent 4 ornaments to one person, The "organizer". When all were recieved, she randomly placed 4 oraments, so each person got 4 from someone else. We sent $5 cash to the organizer, and she volunteered her time and tape, and used free postal service boxes. It worked out really well, and this way no one was shorted. It was a lot of work for her, but we sent goodies to her.......I sent an extra ornie for her. Pam
aerBears1. YES or NO: Have you ever participated in a random teddy bear swap? By random teddy bear swap, I mean a swap where your name is placed among a pool of names of participating artists, and then you are paired up with another bear artist randomly by the swap coordinator.
No
2. AGREE or DISAGREE: All participants in random swaps must agree that they will accept, without public or private complaint, any bear that comes their way, as a condition of participation.
Agree
3. YES or NO: Do you think swaps should be sub-organized into categories?
No preference
4. If swaps are sub-organized into categories, do you think, for example, that mini makers should swap with mini makers?
or....
Do you think each participant should be able to CHOOSE which category he/she wishes to trade with? For example, should a mini maker be able to specify that he/she wants to trade for a "biggun" bear?
I think it would be nice if you could choose which category you would prefer a bear from, but come to think of it... that might be too much work for the organizer and might end up leaving people out if there isn't a perfect match.
4. If you answered YES to question (3.), which categories would you like to see used? Mark all that apply:
(a) Size (small, medium, large... or mini, medium, biggun.)
(b) Style (contemporary, traditional, distressed, anime)
(c) Skill level of bearmaker (beginner, intermediate, advanced)
(d) Medium (needlefelted, mohair, synthetic)
5. If you marked "skill level of bearmaker" as a possible category, in question (4.), do you have any suggestions about the criteria a swap coordinator might use to determine the skill level of each participating artist? Years making bears? Price per bear? Awards and honors? Is this even a realistic option?
In my opinion I don't think this is really necessary.
6. How long should swap participants be given to complete and ship their swap bear?
A month or two
7. What, if any, should the consequences be for those who commit to a swap, but never send a bear to their partner, even after receiving one themselves?
Public humilation. Just kidding, I don't know if you could actually come up with a proper consequence. That would put the organizer in a position of regulating and punishing (so to speak) and I am not sure the organizer or teddy talk would want to regulate this.
8. AGREE or DISAGREE: The swap coordinate should not have to police swap participants. Any problems which arise are the responsibility of each swap pairing to resolve.
Agree
