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LuxembearsMy own feeling is that eBay is just too large to be able to adequately police all of the hidden crimes of the technologically advanced 21st century criminal.
Dagnabbits, things are just happening way too fast and here are some pretty intelligent criminals out there.
What's the answer? Is ebay becoming overwhelmed?
LuxembearsI agree with what you said about the picture thing,
I stand there lookin good and the mean lady behind the counter keeps changing it to an old woman. :photo:
I think she has it out for me.
Bear Hugs
Jodi
:crackup:
Jodi, what they do here is have you face the camera, then have you look directly at a sticker just below the lense. It's simply aweful...your eyes look half shut.
Maybe they want to see what people would look like drunk if they are ever pulled over.
Thank you Jodi from the bottom of my heart for such kind words. :hug: :hug: :hug: 
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Ever since 9-11 they want pics official paperworks like these and passports with no smiles, just plain faces. A shame...
I always try to lift my chin to stretch out the wattles under there and am always told to lower my head. At 5' 8" it's hard to oblige them and still get that instant facelift look.
Last Nov at renewal time I found that we now have a chair to sit on - I sort of scrunched down so I could lift my chin - it's not bad this time either!
Storytime BearsBobbie I know what you are saying about the instant facelift, I do the same thing since I have gotten a little too fluffy, in all the pictures I look like I am looking at the sky because as I get fatter I have to look up higher.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)I think it is much more transparent then starting at 0.99 and have a reserve of say 750....
Often a lower Starting Price is chosen because one of the listing fees (Insertion Fee ??) is based on the starting price level.
I thought that people just did not know what I wanted to have for it, so this is my new method.
They won't know that unless you mention it someway. What wording will you use, Ellen?
Storytime BearsI agree Bobbie, the fee for listing it at more, costs more, not sure why that is , it seems like the person who does list it at a set beginng price is being charged more for the same item.
example:
I list item with an opening bid of 1.00 I get charged .35 cents
but if I do this:
I list a bear starting price 250.00 they then charge you 3.60 just to list it with that opening bid.
Now that amount isn't as much as I thought it would be, but say you list 1 bear every week, thats 187.20 a year more you have paid, which I would rather have that money in my pocket then have ebay have it, but bottom line why does it cost more to do that???????????
This is why I list it with an opening bid of 1.00 and no reserve. sometimes I get burned with no reserve, I sold a mouse house that cost 60 dollars to list and make for 80 , but on the flip side I have sold a bear for 675.00 that I thought would have gone for 200.00.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Totally agree Jodi, my listing fees which I commented on in another thread, just jumped from about $5.60 to $10 for a listing to start on Tues. That about doubles the amount for listing I paid last time and it's right off the top of any profit.
My work is in a very small niche market and as high end pieces, they were all going for less than half of my retail price last year. I choose to start the listing high ($99 would,'ve even been a tinch cheaper than $100!!) as a reflection of what I think my work is worth.
That starting bid amount does not reflect what I would consider my lowest price, sometimes aka the price for shop owners. It would be higher then. There are fabric minis I'm watching right now that have started at $150 w/a BIN $250. (It's also the same basic pattern used each time in different fabrics and accessories but that's a whole other topic!!) Not many bids but they 'usually' get their bears sold. Someday I may be able to start higher/closer to actual retail price but I cannot continue to sell at -50% of retail so I've just started adding a Reserve and starting nearer what I'd like to be paid.
I am always fascinated by the way other artists think. 
It's great to share opinions and ideas! Like you Jodi, I start my listings at $1.00 or $3.00....3 is my lucky number. 
Anyway, I start there and place a reserve. The reserve is what I would list a bear for on my website or a price I would place on my bears if I were to do a show.
Besides the cost, one of the reasons I start the listing low is so anyone can enjoy the bidding process. Sounds quirky, I know. But hey, I like bidding on items and feel that others probably feel the way I do. Sometimes I just place a bid to say "I like your work enough to bid on it, but right now I just can't afford it."
Three or four times a year I'll list a small bear without a reserve. Most times they still hit what the reserve price would have been but, sometimes they don't. I'm perfectly fine with that because the winning bidder is usually someone who's been wanting one of my bears for a long time but just couldn't make it to that reserve price.
Warmest bear hugs, :hug:
Aleta
Newcastle, OntarioBobbie,
OT I know, but I just sent you a PM about Ebay and fees.
hugs,
Brenda
'Bear' Bottoms OriginalsWell, I'm just repeating what everyone else has said here (because I'm never on the up and up and have just now noticed this thread... lol)
I think any kind of shill bidding is just plain wrong. I do understand what you mean, Jodi about someone who might have done it once or twice not realizing it, I could shrug my shoulders. But doing it even once knowing what you are doing is morally wrong and just as I've heard before it makes the seller look bad. I would think/hope that it made the seller FEEL bad.
I had that happen to me once. A new friend said that they saw my bear on eBay and thought about bidding on it to raise the price. I told her that I appreciated it, but that it wasn't ever a good idea. I told her that I let the collectors decide what they think the value of my bear is (especially when I list without a reserve), and admittedly, I've had bears go for less than what I'd have liked. But I use that to learn what collectors like and don't like. Personally, I don't think I would like myself very much if I did shill bidding...
What's that whole saying? What goes around, comes around? I'm too scared of that to shill bid!! ha ha
Kimberly W.
Tami Eveslage Original Teddy BearsI think it is interesting what is being said about reserve prices. I got in a big argument with my brother this summer about that very topic. He thinks listing an item with a starting bid of $24, and having a reserve of $395 on it is dishonest and deceptive. He asked why I just don't start the bids at that amount. Well, I'm still trying to figure out what works best for me now, but the first few bears I sold worked well that way. He said," I know reserve prices are legal, but I guess I would just be too honest to use them." I just about blew my top at him!! "I am not dishonest!!!" I said. He said, "I didn't say you were dishonest."
But he sure as heck implied it!!!
Don't you just LOVE siblings? 
I think a lot, lot, LOT of eBay's success boils down to psychology. In fact, it sometimes reminds me of the philosophy behind gambling casinos. I will now bore you again with my psychological acumen... :)... but at those places, they have people on what's called an "intermittant reinforcement" schedule. You stick your money in the slot (or lay it down on the table) and you don't win EVERY time, but you win often enough that the rush of it keeps you coming back for more. I swear, eBay seems like it's much the same phenomenon.
People often like to chase items they want and the thrill of the bidding war is part of the appeal of eBay for those folks. Also, I have to admit that for me personally, it's sometimes off-putting to see a full priced bear on eBay. Even if I know a reserve is set that will go much higher than, say, a $30 starting bid amount, there's something exhilerating about letting my anticipation build and my commitment to having that bear build, right alongside the building bid amounts. And even if I know I'm willing to pay XYZ anyway for a particular bear anyway, from the outset, I'd really rather work for it. That somehow feels like more of an accomplishment. The phrase "hard won" comes to mind.
I'm weird; what can I tell you.
For my own auctions, I start them high enough that people will know they won't come cheap but much lower than my reserve price. For the last year or so I've started my auctions at $50, generally. I always set a reserve because I don't want to sell my bears for less than I think they're worth, in terms of both materials and labor involved, and I know I can get a certain price for them from retailers and collectors so I don't want to undercut my income... OR my pricing.
It's confusing and angering for collectors to see a bear by an artist for cheap on eBay and then for more at a retail establishment. And vice versa. So it's important, I think, to keep some price consistency across all sales venues. That's sometimes difficult to do when you're wholesaling to one person and having a commission taken off the top from another; when you sell at fixed price on your site vs. at bidder-determined pricing on eBay. But I do aim for consistency so that people who paid a LOT for my work don't feel ripped off or swindled by the case where someone else paid much less.
It all counts.
Flying Fur StudiosYou guys are right. That IS what's hard about ebay. Consistancy. I WOULD feel ripped off to buy a bear from an artist for $500, then see one on ebay for $100. That's a good point. Also a good point to price fair. Just because you may find one collector to pay high prices, doesn't mean it's the best idea to charge them lots, it may come back to haunt you.
Ebay, it's so complicated, but like right now. I have a few books for sale and it's almost the end of my auctions. I just get a total thrill at watching the bidding, thats why I price them cheap. It is a whole different matter with bears though.
Ok, I'll stop rambling now.....
LuxembearsAlso, I have to admit that for me personally, it's sometimes off-putting to see a full priced bear on eBay.
I was going to say the exact same thing.
There is nothing dishonest about having a reserve. It would be unfair to the artist not to have one not to mention risky. Especially when so much time and effort has gone into a particular design.
Some people do not have reserves...and even once in a while I won't have one either but it is taking chance.
At the end of the day everyone has to do what they feelin is right for them.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)I don't know exactly what you mean by what wording I will use, Bobbie? It might be my English....
Nope - got the 'English' Have a Brit BIL! I should have quoted more of your reply:
I was happy I had it protected by a reserve then, but I thought that people just did not know what I wanted to have for it, so this is my new method.
Does anyone feel it necesasary to explain that this is the absolute minumum bottom price they're willing to accept? If this is your theory, would you feel the need to explain all of the previous bit to your private collector list? How work w/o a minimum bid Reserve price has sold for 1/10th of it's retail value/
Some eBayers are looking for only the bargains and others don't even consider the price: if they want it they'll pay whatever it takes. I'm lucky enough to have a collector like that: she likes only unique OOAK works - has even left Feedback to the effect of "cannot believe that the piece fetched only the $100 minimum."
In other words, if your work was going at $70, do you now feel you should explain to your bext customers why you've put into practice a new way of working?
I have had 2 bidders that can go to the-sky's-the-limit; I wrote to both of them before the new year to explain just this very thing. Both of them wrote back to say it made no difference, if the piece was truly meant to be for them they'd have it. None of us wants 50 bids - that top out at $70 - so sometimes, if the work is worthy of it, it's OK to ask for the same amount that the tag would read at a bear show. That's one reaon that I'm glad to have over 15 years of being on the show circuit under my belt: it makes pricing a whole lot easier for a dozen reasons.
I look at my EBay auction as great ways of advertising with which I can reach more people than though advertising in magazines.
My thoughts exactly! The show fees (and now eBay, which are a WHOLE LOT CHEAPER for more coverage, problems and all!!) *were* my advertising dollars at work. I think I've placed 3 or 4 ads in the major magazines in 17 years. Like eBay & websites, you have to become a regular long before you get nibbles, but I cannot afford the $500 invoices.
I pay over $25 for insertion fees , but as the US dollar is low against the Euro,
We traveled in Europe the first Euro year - it was *good* for us. I think we averaged about 75¢ to the Euro; last time I checked in 05 or 06 it was over $1.30, which means it takes alomst double our US currency to purchase the same things. The £ to $ is horrendous just now. $2 to 1£. No traveling for us....
I hope you will get the prices that you want for your work Bobbie,
I'm in a very small specialized niche market; the public's recognition of this art form isn't there yet. When others' work is being described the same as mne - very firmly needled - and they receive an item that's very softly done**, and/or misshapen or beginning to separate into layers, they could expect that all firmly needled work is going to be the same. When looking at my starting bid, they would naturally assume that mine is the same and think I'm crazy to be starting @ $100. Pictures can be deceiving! Someday they will rise when the quality improves - it behooves the 'pioneers' to keep pushing that edge.
To demonstrate the type of work that I do, I've begun to include in every needle & kit sale, a small twist of wool that I've needled the end of for about 15 - 20 minutes. It's only hal an inch by half an inch, and I do say that this is still not as firm mas my work is but it's a starting point. In that way I try to demonstrate why it takes 2 weeks to make my work instead of 4 - 6 hours.
Most times they still hit what the reserve price would have been but, sometimes they don't.
Aleta, you're fortunate to have built up that client base. I hope to be there in another year or 2, just about the time that the NFing work should start coming into its own in quality!!!
it's important, I think, to keep some price consistency across all sales venues.
Exactly Shelli - TY!
Also, I have to admit that for me personally, it's sometimes off-putting to see a full priced bear on eBay.
There are many auctions that have a start bid price of, say, $175 and the Reserve is $185. They don't have a clue about how, what & when to use the Reserves, BINs. etc...!!!
Ooops here it is 4PM and I have yet to do more about organizing & de-stashing than think about it!
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Me again - forgot my ** notation in the last reply:
and they receive an item that's very softly done**
I've bought many items on eBay that had begun to separate/come apart before they even arrived here. Several were shipped in a regular businees envelope!!! I would not give names but if I'm in a different venue, like a foreign coutry, I may bring along an untagged piece to demonstrate.
There are as many degrees of firmness in NFing as there are NFing needlers.
Every single one of the styles (degrees of needling) is valid & has its place, depending upon what the item will be used for: clothing, home decor, a collectible art work.
The true artist is the one who knows the differences, knows how to produce all of these, and then creates designs that fit the purpose!!!
Quickly needling some fiber for a few hours and expecting it to last in a collectors' hands, where one has NO idea of how it will be treated, does a disservice to others who are honestly evaluating their work and accurately describing it. There is only ONE artist I know who plain-out says Soft Sculpture. I give her all laud for stating the style of work right up front.
Well, down off the soapbox for sure!! I took this far away from Shill Bidding (can you tell I'm passionate about this?????)
Wow, Bobbie!
I don't understand? I always think of what a collector has paid for a piece and what I would expect if I were that collector? I am very careful about shipping; first I wrap the face in special tissue, than I wrap the whole piece in layers of bubble-wrap. I use a box that is at least twice the size of the piece and throughly cushion that piece with paper and tissue so there is no way it can be damaged even if the box is, basically, crushed 
It is such a small price to pay for the goodwill of a collector?!
Karen
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)My themed gift boxes are at the most, 3" x 4". The largest dimension is sometimes 5" acrss.
The smalles boxes I use are 8" cubes; the USPS will supply these and others free, delivered right to your address. Sometimes I have to buy them at The Container Store if I haven't re-ordered online.
All are very well suspended in these outer boxes by those rectangular 3" x 6" 'bubbles' and bubble wrap.
I just shake my head when I get items shipped as I first described. Chicken me is too scared to leave negative FDBK so I just don't mention it though.......
Baird'sBears Yuck. Absolutely wrong.
Naive mistakes are inevitable from time to time, but the intention to defraud is different, and all too common. It should definitely get the Penny-Punishment.
I can't remember exactly who said what, but after reading all your very thoughtful posts, I'm convinced that it will be up to Bear Artists to protect their own market on eBay. If eBay has nothing to lose by tolerating a certain amount of fraud, intentionally or not, we certainly do.
It doesn't surprise me at all that some artists whose work is in high demand can start bidding at 99 cents, with no reserve, and be almost certain of selling at high prices. The demand is already there, and the competitive excitement of the auction format only increases the demand. Nothing wrong with that. More power to them!
People like to compete and win--didn't a plain old Walmart bag sell for thousands recently? The seller created a high demand just by insisting that the thing was really, truly, nothing but an empty Walmart bag. I'd guess that buyers kept bidding just to see how high the price would go . . . you've got to feel sorry for the poor schmuck who got stuck with the winning bid!
It's awful to think that Bear Artists would stoop to shill bidding to create an artificial demand for their work. Maybe if we sellers were less reluctant to set reserves, the practice wouldn't be so common.
I think most bear collectors are smart enough to understand that beginners and lesser knowns can't afford to take the 99-cents-with-no-reserve risk. I don't think it would hurt to indicate this somewhere in an auction listing, in case some collectors haven't yet considered the issue in this light. Maybe some wouldn't want to take the chance on a newcomer, but if the reserve is reasonable, and the right collector sees the auction, the critter will probably sell. If not, you've paid your fees and taken your chances, and better luck next time.
In our category, eBay should not be primarily for bargain-hunters. For buyers, it's an opportunity to see a wide range of creations, and for sellers it's an opportunity to get their creations seen.
Totally agree Jodi, my listing fees which I commented on in another thread, just jumped from about $5.60 to $10 for a listing to start on Tues. That about doubles the amount for listing I paid last time and it's right off the top of any profit.
My work is in a very small niche market and as high end pieces, they were all going for less than half of my retail price last year. I choose to start the listing high ($99 would,'ve even been a tinch cheaper than $100!!) as a reflection of what I think my work is worth.
That starting bid amount does not reflect what I would consider my lowest price, sometimes aka the price for shop owners. It would be higher then. There are fabric minis I'm watching right now that have started at $150 w/a BIN $250. (It's also the same basic pattern used each time in different fabrics and accessories but that's a whole other topic!!) Not many bids but they 'usually' get their bears sold. Someday I may be able to start higher/closer to actual retail price but I cannot continue to sell at -50% of retail so I've just started adding a Reserve and starting nearer what I'd like to be paid.
Not sure what the reference to fabric minis starting at 150 wth a bin 250 is about??/I take a day off from mohair now and again and make a mni starting at 120 with a bin of 200 which is similar to what you mentioned,I have also used the same pattern with different colours and bows???not sure what you see wrong with that either.I often use the same pattern for six months.I make new patterns every month but I doubt many people only ever use one once.
I tend to start at the least I would take and often add a BIN as I have many buyers who use this option as they dont enjoy the whole bidding thing.I dont sell through any shops so I dont have to think about the conflict of prices.I tend to make my website prices similar to my average ebay prices.
I am unsure of the mention of telling buyers who else is bidding if requested.A lot of my customers like the private bidding as they dont have to worry about bidding against a friend or customer.I really do think people are sensible enough to spot the ones shill bidding.Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay I suppose,I still find it hard to believe people can hurt the buyers who after all give them their living.I hope its only a tiny minority that do it???
LuxembearsWell, I feel tempted to say just one more thing...sorry...
Awe Ellen, no need to apologize for anything. :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: I know where you are coming from. I feel ebay has been a learning experience for me. I started back in 2000 and it takes time to build up a reputation. Your work is outstanding and I also have to say that I was shocked that your gorgeous racoon was not nominated. It should have been
I really think there isn't any right or wrong way to handle pricing on auctions. At the end of the day everyone has to do what works for them and do what makes one feel comfortable.
Some people who do not do ebay have a hard tiome unstanding the way bidding works. My mom still doesn't 'get it" even after explaing it umpteen times ( she does not go on the internet either).
Anyway my two cents. :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Tami Eveslage Original Teddy BearsEllen, given that my last four reserve listed auctions have not met reserve 
, I may try to give it a shot your way. It makes sense, too. The reserve auctions worked well for my first several bears. (In April, our computer crashed and I lost my mailing list, so I think that may have something to do with it.
But I believe that creating your reputation by consistantly putting your work out there and also, like Ellen said, educating the ebay audience about your price range is vital. And I know this is where I have been lacking. I listed a bear for the first time on ebay in August of 2004. I have listed a total of 15 bears since then (and two dolls who were not accessories to bears). Not enough.It's hard when you don't do it full time, and when you want to do shows too. I'll keep plugging away, though because I love what I do!
P.S. anyone want to adopt one of the lovelies under my avitar? Free shipping to Teddy Talkers!
Posts: 8,574I am learning quite a bit from all of you ladies, regarding the e-bay thing. Being much newer to this than most of you I am still floundering-learning.
There were comments in my beginning to sell, that I was selling too cheaply. But the quality wasn't there for the higher prices-nor was the 'art' whatever that means in gollyspeak.
But now I set my reserve for comparable dolls at the price the last one sold for-so far it seems to be working-the prices for the better dolls are going higher. Which still shocks me. Of course a friend asked me yesterday what i would do if one went for $400? Would that be my reserve? Well goodgracious no....I can't imagine a golly going for $400 to begin with..... 
Nope. just tried to imagine it and it doesn't compute in the old peabrain.
I am making some smaller simpler gollies for the 2 month thingy at Bid4Bears. And I am finding that in my mind the price will still be in the $25-$30 range-simply because they are simpler....I wanted a range so that folks who can't afford $200 for a golly can still get one for $25. Otherwise what fun is it to frequent the auction? Also someone who would never have thought of purchasing a golly might, if the price is only $25 or $30. And, who knows, they may become hooked! A girl can only hope....
My question is this: are any of the rest of you who are participating going to do the same thing?
My feeling was that it might be a way to bring in a new "collector"-someone who wants a bear but can't afford the prices that most of you are justifiably used to getting....
like me..... :crackup: I can't afford them for sure.
Case in point: Kimmy from KIMBEE Bears.....if I hadn't gotten one when she first started, a mere year ago and change, I probably would never be able to get one. ( ) And wow! how her bears have changed, and morphed and developed. It has been a joy to see. Just like so many others here, i think what was posted last year and what you are making now....I just shake my head in wonder, how we have all so improved and grown and developed. Hopefully into the artists we want to be.....well I have a ways to go ....but the ideas are there....
So I find it interesting to look back at the ladies who were beginners last year, here, and are now seasoned artists.....maybe lightly seasoned, but seasoned, non-the-less.
and you newly seasoned artists, are you still surprised by what has happened and how fast it happened ? Really?
Were it not for TT and B4B and E-bay wouldn't we still be floundering and trying to get our work out there?
Just musing, from the other end of the auction spectrum....
dilu
Very good points on pricing everyone....One thing I have done on a couple of auctions with reserves, and I am not even sure if I was allowed to do it, but I got it from Luann's post from the collectors end of things, was that I stated my reserve in the auction....It was a way of letting people know what I was willing to except without them having to fiddle around guessing...there were two sides of it though and I am still unsure of whether I would do it like that again..the good side was they met their reserve and then some, the bad side was that now that people knew the reserve I had a few ebayers contact me to ask if it doesn't meet its reserve can they buy it for the reserve? To the life of me I still can't figure this one out though, why not just bid and hope no body bids against you? For those people I tell them that if it doesn't go I will relist with a BIN and let them know immediatley when it is posted....I guess though it is no different than telling my mailing list, who I always tell what the reserve price is when I list a bear or puppy!!!
Sorry for the rambling :redface:
Hugs,
Krista
fribbles, ltd...I havn't read all of the posts on this topic, but unfortunately, there is another category in eBay that is simply EXPLODING with shilling since the advent of the hidden bidder process---and that is OOAK fairies. Polymer clay fairies is a category that has also been plagued with dishonest sellers and false buyers---which is just horrible. I am seeing the shilling now more than ever there...I'm not that in tune with teddy bear auctions on eBay since I don't usually look [I look and I am too tempted to spend lotsa money!!], but it is heartbreaking to see sellers taking advantage of GOOD collectors by inflating their prices.
Conversely, it also gives the bears an inflated worth...which is obscene, unfair, and dishonest. I don't know how copiers and shillers live with themselves, but they are sadly lacking in the most important and what I consider most divine gift we as thinking, reasoning beings have---CONSCIENCE.
Amelia
