Banner Sponsors
For artists and collectors sponsored by Intercal...your mohair supplier and Johnna's Mohair Store
BrisbaneFor those of you who sell your bears on ebay, I was wondering what you do with regards to leaving feedback. Do you leave feedback after the seller has paid or do you wait until they have received the bear and leave feedback then.
I used to leave immediatley after payment but someone (not a bear seller) mentioned to me that they didn't consider the transaction over until the buyer had recieved their item, because if there is a problem, how they deal with it is all part of the transaction too. Also she said the transaction isn't over until the goods are received safely.
I guess this is a valid point...what do you do??
Matilda Huggington-beareThe last couple of deals I have done the sellers have said that they will leave feedback after I have left feed back. And since I dont consider the transaction finished until I get my greedy little hands on the product then that is when I'll leave feed back. Thats all fine and dandy with me. I dont mind. 
Flying Fur Studiosthat's a tough one. I personally feel as a seller once the buyer pays they have done their part and I leave feedback. I have to admit I don't like it when a seller won't leave me feedback until I leave it for them. I feel then they are only leaving me feedback not because I paid quickly etc, but because I left it for them. I think it makes for a corrupt feedback system.
That being said, you also have to protect yourself at the same time. No easy answer I suppose.
Taber, AlbertaAs little as I have been selling on ebay, I always thought you leave feedback right after they pay but .....
Real Deal BearsI feel that the Buyer has finalized their part of the transaction appon payment.
I don't however give feedback until I hear that they have saftely received their bear, as that way I wont forget to follow up.
I like to email the buyer to say that their little bear should land on their doorstep any day soon after the 8th day. That is if the postie doesn't beat me to it 
Sometimes they are so fast it's astounding.
Once I have heard back that they have received their bear I give feedback wether they have or not. It's really so that I can't overlook that they are still waiting on their bear.
Posts: 8,574I think Heather brings up a valid point-
It too frequently seems that sellers are hedging their bets and not leaving feedback until they make sure you do-i think sometimes they want to be sure you leave a positive score
I have always been able to comply because I have always been happy-maybe I'm easy, or maybe lucky....I don't know
My hubby hasn't been so lucky and one time the seller refused to send the item....rather than wreck our feedback score,( because I was just getting started selling, lo those many months ago,) he simply did not leave feed back at all.
fortunetly the item he had "purchased" was very inexpensive and equally fortunetly that person seems to have dissappeared.
But like Heather said, it negates the true purpose of feedback and corrupts the system.
He also did not want to do the complaint-to-e-bay route.....
so the conumdrum continues....
Yes when we pay we have completed our part;
but equally important to our staisfaction is the state that the merchandise arrives in-so I don't leave feedback until I receive the item.
Best of luck figuring it all out-I surely haven't and doubt I will.....
hugs
dilu
And then there is last night, when I finally left feedback for a carpart he got months ago-he didn't complain and i wanted to clear out the feedback folder so....do i have any idea what part it was? Heck no! But i figured if he didn't complain it was a positive transaction....
PPS: I like to make a game out of feedback....what can I say using up all the letters with only 1 !.....sometimes not much, but I try....Some people get all clever with the different symbols and such, but I try to describe my feelings about the transaction
BrisbaneIt too frequently seems that sellers are hedging their bets and not leaving feedback until they make sure you do-i think sometimes they want to be sure you leave a positive score
This is the very point that worries me Dilu...I would hate for my buyers to think I was hedging my bets, because I would never leave a negative just because I received one but the buyer is not to know that are they.......
Once I have heard back that they have received their bear I give feedback wether they have or not. It's really so that I can't overlook that they are still waiting on their bear.
Chris this is what I've been doing recently but it means that most of the time the buyer beats me to it.....and I hate that!!! 
I'm not sure which way I'll go yet, truht is I'm not always that organised and some of the time the bear arrives and the feedback is in before I have a chance to do mine anyway!!!
Bine-TeddiesI only buy on ebay, haven't sold anything yet. From a buyer's perspective I think I have done my part when I have paid and that's when I want feedback. Many sellers wait until I leave feedback and I always suspect that they are hedging bets. While I wait for the item to arrive I check for feedback and if they don't leave me any I feel a little negative towards the seller, because I see that as a possible threat of retaliation should I dare to leave a negative. They can always add a comment if a buyer leaves an unjustified negative, so I don't see a reason to not leave feedback right after payment.
Then there are sellers, who appear to leave feedback in batches, like once a month or so. Often they have a standard phrase which they use for all transactions. Its a little unpersonal, but I can understand that a high volume seller has to do it in an efficient way.
For bear artists and the friendly almost intimate relationship you/we want to build up with buyers, I think it is a good idea to leave feedback after payment and don't use the same wording on all of them.
I as buyer leave feedback as soon as the item has arrived or if there is a problem I contact the seller and work it out, before I leave feedback. I am generally very understanding and have only left 2 neutrals as my worst feedback so far. But then I only buy from sellers with at least 95% positive feedback, bearing in mind that the system is flawed for the above reasons and anyone who still manages to incur a lot of negatives really is a bad apple.
Bine-TeddiesI used to leave immediatley after payment but someone (not a bear seller) mentioned to me that they didn't consider the transaction over until the buyer had recieved their item, because if there is a problem, how they deal with it is all part of the transaction too. Also she said the transaction isn't over until the goods are received safely.
Sarahjane, I agree with that, but it doesn't change the fact that the buyer has done his/her part. How you handle any problem will be part of their feedback, not your's. If the buyer has unreasonable claims and leaves a negative, you can always leave a comment to that.
I don't always let the seller know that I have received an item (not bears) and leaving feedback is a way of letting them know. If they haven't given me feedback I let them hang there too for days or weeks :twisted: 
If both seller and buyer wait for each other to leave feedback it turns into a kind of chicken race, doesn't it? :doh:
Strange BearsYep I feel like the seller is blackmailing me to leave positive feedback and won't leave it for me unless I do. I now make ot clear on payment that I will leave positive feedback on receipt of the item IF it has been left for me on receipt of payment. I have emailed a few sellers and let them know that the item has been received ......I then will not leave feedback positive or otherwise even if they leave it for me.....one or two have emailed and asked for it to be left and I have answered with the comment.
As a buyer my oart of the deal is to pay quickly and cleanly.....there part is to live up to description, pack and post quickly......how hard is that......and to honest on postage costs. I've done both and rarely been upset....
I often wonder how much negative feedback would be left if so many sellers didn't blackmail buyers be refusing to leave feedback until the buyer did........I always know when I'm dealing with a really honest seller.......they don't hassle about leaving feedback on receipt of payment and BEFORE the transaction is completed!!!
Wild Thyme OriginalsI really try to leave feedback for my buyers as soon as I receive payment in full.... that's when it's "due" in my mind at least. I sometimes forget though! 
I dislike the "feedback hostage" thing immensely! I totally understand why people do it, often really without bad intention.... to me though, it really kind of gives the idea that if I as a Seller don't get positive feedback from a buyer... I will retaliate by leaving possibly undeserved negative feedback for the buyer. That's just WRONG.
Kim Basta
I leave feedback after I've sent the bear on his or her way. Helps me to remember that someone needs to go home 
But yet, I leave feedback soon after receiving payment, rather than waiting to hear from the buyer... because I do feel that they have fufilled their end of the agreement.
Little Bear GuyI have to agree with Sabine on what she has said and what others have said as well.
As a Seller you should leave feedback as soon as you get payment, the transaction is finished on your end once you have the money. It doesn't matter if the buyer receives the product and then states they don't like it, that has nothing to do with the transaction. If they paid promply then a positive feedback is warranted, if the buyer decides not to leave feedback there really isn't much you can do. If your hounding them to leave feedback then that doesn't look good either, this is a real dilemma but I personally would not hound someone to leave me a feedback.
Like Sabine said if they leave you a negative feedback it's not going to kill your business, you can write a response to their negative feedback. I have bought from loads of buyers who have had a negative feedback, but if they have tons of negatives then no. I always check the history and see what the negative feedback was for, most times it was an isolated incident or just a B****y buyer who would not be satisfied even if you hand delivered the product to them.
When we send out a bear, we include a little note telling the buyer that the feedback system on ebay is an intrical part of the transaction, we advise them that we have left feed back from them and would appreciate if they would do the same once they receive the item. We also tell them to please email us if there are any problems with the product prior to leaving feedback.
I don't think you should be holding back your feedback just to make sure the buyer leaves you good feedback, even if the buyer leaves you a negative if the transaction between the two of you went smoothly then they deserve a positive feedback. I know it doesn't seem right but that's the way it should be.
Just my two cents worth I know everyone has different idea's and this is just how I deal with feedback.
Hugs
Shane
Posts: 8,574Sabine said
because I see that as a possible threat of retaliation should I dare to leave a negative.
Very well put, Sabine, and i think you are very correct!
Newcastle, OntarioI guess everyone has different views on this like most things. I've always waited until the bear has arrived, to leave my feedback. I explain this to all my customers, as I consider the transaction complete when the bear has arrived. I've had no complaints from customers at all.
hugs,
Brenda
Bears by EdieI also have always felt that the completed transaction included the item being received, not just half of it with the money sent, and so, like Brenda, leave my feedback after the buyer has notified me that they have received the item. I clearly state this up front and say that I will leave them feedback as soon as I know the bear has arrived as then the transaction is completed. I am NOT waiting for them to give feedback first and will definitely leave them feedback as soon as I know the transaction is completed.
In my mind saying the transaction is complete when the buyer sends the money, as their part is done, would be much like saying the seller's part is done when they take the bear to the post office! But what happens inbetween is VERY MUCH part of the transaction! I could leave feedback after receiving the money saying that it was a great transaction and then have it turn out to be total nightmare if the parcel gets lost or damaged or whatever! I'd feel like I was tempting fate by saying it was great or easy or smooth, when at that point anything could happen!
To be honest, this is just how I understood ebays rules for feedback and I guess it never crossed my mind that others would see it differently and feel that sellers were holding them hostage for positive feedback!
I also feel that the feedback I get from a seller after the completion of a transaction (by my interpretation!) is more personal because by that time they know more about me than just that I have paid them - what more can they say about me upon payment of my money than just that I paid promptly - they don't know if it was a good transaction or if I was a nice person to deal with or if they would want to deal with me again or not! In a way if a seller leaves me feedback immediately upon payment I feel a bit like they have gotten their money so that is all they care about and aren't interested in waiting to see if I get the product or am happy or anything - just another point of view I guess!
I think it is great to hear other people's views on this and hopefully it will make us all a little more tolerant of each others' ways of doing things rather than automatically suspecting the worst!
Bine-TeddiesHmm, I am wondering. What do you expect of a buyer to give her/him positive feedback? If they pay immediately, what else should they do? The only reason not to give feedback yet is if you don't have all relevant information yet to give fair feedback. So what is missing after the buyer has paid? If a parcel gets lost or damaged that shouldn't reflect on the buyer's feedback, but how that was handled should reflect on the feedback the seller will receive from the buyer. The way I see it, there are a lot more reasons for the buyer to wait with feedback than for the seller. So, when I don't get my feedback after paying I always wonder what else I'm expected to do. According to ebay regulations I'm not required to confirm receipt of the goods, so the last thing I have to do is leave feedback and that must be what the seller is waiting for. And I have been held hostage for feedback more than once. I have also waited for feedback for several months after leaving a positive one myself. When you are new to ebay and building your reputation that's really not fair.
All this being said, I think that bear artists have a much more personal relationship with their buyers than with the average ebay transaction and feedback issues won't be a problem. I buy mostly supplies and I don't bother in every case to tell the seller that the item has arrived other than by leaving feedback. Many of them sell hundreds of items each week and would drown in emails otherwise. If they go the extra mile and send me personal emails to let me know when the item is sent or even refund excess shipping I will send email them when the item arrives and thank them of course, but in most cases its just as anonymous as going to a large shop.
Ebay is a mixed blessing and we all have different experiences, which affect the way we interpret the actions of others. I have met many more great sellers than bad ones and I always read the feedback before buying. Like Shane I draw my own conclusions from that. I also often ask a question before bidding and try to get an impression of the person. A careless or no email response will drive me away.
BrisbaneHi everyone....it is really good to hear everyone's opinions on this topic....I can understand all the points of view..and as such I am still wavering on when I should leave feedback... :doh:
If a parcel gets lost or damaged that shouldn't reflect on the buyer's feedback, but how that was handled should reflect on the feedback the seller will receive from the buyer.
I understand what you are saying here Sabine, but I know of a couple of cases where the parcel has become lost and the buyer instead of dealing with it an a mature manner has become accusatory and abusive (again this is not with bears) then left a negative even after being given a full refund including postage......In the case of a seller offering a full refund I don't see how they would deserve a negative. In the case of a loss a buyer also has a responsibility to approach a seller in a polite and mature manner....I guess unfortunately everyone out there isn't like you and I!!! 
Anyway thanks all for giving your opinions here.....
ToadBriarI do like Edie and Brenda - wait til buyer's received the goods.
Actually no. I don't actively wait - I just get around to feedback when I get around to it. What's the hurry?
We've got 90 days to leave it. I always leave it but I think of it as an afterthought, unless something goes
really wrong. I've never had to leave a neg or neutral, though. I am not holding my breath to wait to receive
it, either - it's nice but I honestly wouldn't notice if someone waited a couple weeks before leaving it!
I DO try to be a little more timely if someone has very few transactions under their belt though.
I am a feedback slacker
Delartful BearsI'm sorry, but most of you looks like will feel I'm unreasonable. I don't leave feedback until the person has receive their item. I feel there's a chance (never happened) that the person might receive the item, and might be unreasonable about something regarding that item. So, I only leave it until after.
Just do what you feel is right I guess.
Danni
Penny's PenchantsI'm with Brenda, Edie, Kim & Danni on this one - for the time being anyways. I hadn't really thought about it a whole lot up until now. Way to go ladies!
I leave feedback only once I know that their baby is safe in their hands and they are happy with their purchase. I feel that this is just about the end of the transaction - both people leaving feedback would be the absolute resolution of a sale - regardless of a positive or negative.
Part of this has to do with me being a relatively new seller but I also feel that if you are very upfront about the process that you are going to use there shouldn't be an issue.
I have had nothing but positive experiences on eBay and if you "treat others like you want to be treated" all will be OK - the majority of the time anyways.
I think that anyone who sells into this "community" of people are dealing with some of the nicest folks out there compared to mass retail sales - we are specialists and so are the collectors!
I would rather be able to solve my customers issues before posting feedback as that is part of the process as well.
Just my two cents! 
What Edie and Penny and others said!!!
It's absolutely true that the PURCHASE part of the auction is complete when payment is received from the buyer.
However, my opinion is that the eBay TRANSACTION -- which is what I'm leaving feedback on; the entire transaction experience, and not just the bidder's ability to pay, or pay quickly -- isn't complete until the item is received by the purchaser. Or, if the item is not received, until issues like reimbursement, or tracking of parcels, is worked out satisfactorily.
eBayers sometimes go off half-cocked and leave negative feedback for sellers even before letting them know, "Hey, my parcel isn't here yet... Can you help me please, seller?" I've seen this happen all over eBay. Many reputable, good sellers have unearned negative feedback in their record for this reason. I know this because those sellers, who often have otherwise perfect feedback ratings, have left replies to that feedback like, "Gee, I wish you would have told me the item didn't arrive before leaving me negative feedback! I didn't even know!"
I consider waiting for the transaction to COMPLETE less a case of "hostage taking" than a big-picture approach to the entire selling process on eBay; a process that doesn't end with payment received.
Think about it for a minute using a different scenario as your transactional example. If you went to Bloomingdale's and took a gorgeous sweater to the counter and gave the cashier $89.00 for that sweater, would you consider your transaction complete??? Does payment for the item mark the end of the transaction?
Wouldn't you prefer that the cashier take your money... and THEN wrap your sweater nicely in tissue and a bag, and make sure the sweater ends up in your hands before you walk out the store...?
If I made this trip to Bloomingdale's and handed the cashier my money and she said, "Wonderful buyer! Easy to work with!" and then she turned around and walked away from me, leaving me empty handed but full of praise, I absolutely wouldn't consider the transaction complete!!! And neither should the cashier... or, in our original example, the seller on eBay.
Seems to me that both the Bloomingdale's transaction AND any eBay transaction are complete when (1) money is paid AND (b) item is received safely by the buyer.
I look at eBay transactions in the same way I view real world transactions, and would therefore only feel comfortable leaving feedback for my buyer once the entirety of the transaction, and not just their payment portion of it, was truly and completely wrapped up.
BrisbaneThanks Shelli...That is very well said It explains all that I was thinking but unable to put into words!!!
Newcastle, OntarioHurray for Shelli, for always being able to explain things and put into words diplomatically, what the rest of us try to :crackup: !Having said that, each seller has to do what feels comfortable for them.
Sarah Jane, if you feel like Shelli, Kim, Edie, Danni, Penny and I, then do what feels right for you, not because we do, but because that's the way you feel comfortable conducting your ebay transactions. If you are up front with the buyers, or put a blurb on your auctions, buyers will understand upfront and if they don't like it, then they are free not to bid.
Hugs,
Brenda
Bears by EdieVery nicely put Shelli! You really have said exactly how I feel about the matter. I am so glad to hear with the last few posts that I am not alone in my interpretation.
Sabine said:
Hmm, I am wondering. What do you expect of a buyer to give her/him positive feedback? If they pay immediately, what else should they do? The only reason not to give feedback yet is if you don't have all relevant information yet to give fair feedback. So what is missing after the buyer has paid?[
What I feel is missing, Sabine, is the information that the parcel has arrived so that I know the transaction has been successfully completed. I DO expect the buyer to let me know that the parcel has arrived as I have no other way of knowing unless they choose to pay a lot extra for insurance so that I can track it on line. I am most happy to be the first to leave feedback, at that point, but if they choose to let me know of their receipt by leaving feedback instead of sending an email - that is their choice! I really feel by not leaving feedback immediately upon payment, I am showing that I am still involved in the process and will do all in my power to see that the customer is happy with the transaction - I haven't just taken the money and run! :crackup:
