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Olgavd Apr 17, 2007

Hi,

Sorry for asking about this, I'm just a newbie.

All the time I see people use mostly cotter pin joints on their artist teddies.

However, don't you think metal is a bit "unfriendly"? Isn't it better to use plastic joints? Why do so few people use plastic? Do such joints stand the tests of time worse than cotter pins?

Does anyone use plastic joints on high-end collectible artist teddies? 

Also, does using plastic joints instead of cotter pins it lower the teddies' value or anything?

Thanks!!!

Tami E Apr 17, 2007

hello! Weclome to Teddy Talk.  
Plastic joints can break. One of my early bears was given to the son of a friend of mine when he was born. When he turned 7 poor Teddy's head popped off!!  The tearful child returned him to me for surgery and I was surprised to see that I had used a plastic joint in his head since it had been so long since I had used them.
You are also limited as to how tight you can make them. There are limits to how tight you can get cotter pin joints too though which is why I use lock nuts and bolts in my bears limbs (cotter pin joints in the head). I enjoy making larger bears and the cotter pin or plastic joints just aren't tight enough to hold a pose with the larger bears, especially if they are weighted at all.

Olgavd Apr 17, 2007

Thanks, but I heard you can't give children bears with metal jounts anyway, so you were right to give plastic, even if it broke They are called plastic safety joints anyway.

I just can't understand this: only bears for kids need to be able to stand wear and tear and still they must only be equipped with rather breakable plastic joints, but bears for collectors won't be subject for such sever use conditions, so why bother equipping them with metal joints anyway? Unless plastic rots or wears just with time and metal doesn't... In any case, why bother with screwing metal when you can just pop a plastic joint? I have a feeling they must be easier to use and, besides, metal is just something too cold and hard for a cuddly fluffy animal, isn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So what's the reason for using metal joints instead of plastic? Espacially on medium and small size bears?

Thanks again!

bearhug07 Apr 17, 2007

Hi

I think we use the wooden joints with cotter pins or  nuts and bolts as we have more control over the evenness of the joint movement as well as making our bears in the traditional way as they were first made. Wooden joints with metal fastenings are traditional. Plastic is a new material and even though child approved certainly in my experience doesn't have the staying power of traditional joints. Nearly every second bear brought into my shop for repair was a child's toy with a broken plastic joint and in my opinion the jagged broken plastic pieces are more dangerous than anything I;ve seen in a traditionally made bear.

Personally I would never use a plastic joint in a bear no matter if it is a child's toy or not as they do not offer quality or longevity. They are a cheap  joint with suspect safety.

On the artistic side they do not offer much in variety of joint movement as cotter pins do. It is a demonstration of skill to use a number of different jointing methods and do them well.

Pumpkin & Pickle Bears Apr 17, 2007

I have used plastic joints twice - both were early bears I made for my 2 sons. I personally don't like plastic joints - I find them hard to attach and you can never get them tight enough. I use cotter pin joints for my smaller bears and nut and bolt joints for my 8"+ bears (but always cotter pin neck joints).

chrissibrinkley Apr 17, 2007

I used plastic joints on the first few stuffed things I ever made, only because that's what they sell in the sewing and craft shops.  I wasn't even aware of the artist bear possibilities back then.  The plastic joints are limited to the "threads" on the plastic so you can only get them so tight no matter what you do. You're pusing a disk down over the threads and if it won't go one more, or if there's not one more thread to pop over.... there's no adjusting.  I don't sell bears for children, but if I was to make an everyday -meant to be loved by a kid bear- for my niece I would use lock nuts and not the plastic. The lock nuts aren't going to break or come loose.
As far as feeling the metal and it's texture, the majority of the screw is inside the bears body, so you're not going to feel cold metal at all.  Maybe you can give the different materials a try and then see what appeals to you the most.  The most important thing is to list your materials when you sell so that collectors are making informed buying decisions. 

:hug:
~Chrissi

Olgavd Apr 17, 2007

Thanks everyone!

Well, the main reason I wanted to explore plastic instead of metal is that I'm too bad with tools such as screwdrivers, cotter keys, etc. I'm kind of afraid of using metal parts and tools. I know it's funny :)

I want to make thread jointed limbs, for sure, but I don't know what I'll use for the head.

Is it OK to make a collectible bear with a non-jointed, static head?

toadbriar Apr 17, 2007

Plastic joints seem like a waste of time and not much safer than the other sort in the long run. The remaining appeal of them in a childsafe bear, IMO, would be washability. You can't toss a fiberboard disc jointed bear in the wash! But that is important to me for a child's toy. You can only take damp surface sponging so far. Is there another option for washability, besides unjointed altogether?

mumka Apr 17, 2007

that is really nice discussion, I've learned so much about jointing teddies I've never used joints (not good, I know :redface: ) but I have one set of cotter pins to make a larger (12") linen bear and it's good to know that' better option 
Thanks for the information everyone! ^^