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Hello everybody.
I finally got myslef into organizing my appartment..and guess what I´ve found - a plastic bag full of real fur pieces. Some or smaller, some are bigger, but one thing is for sure - I´m not gonna use them. People(well, old relatives, to be more specific) bring me these things sometimes (like old fur coats and stuff) and explaining that I don´t really use this material doesn´t really work. I know there are some teddy people who "revive" old fur like this. It´s still good quality, but I just don´t like fur, but I also don´t wanna just throw it away like that. IS there anyone who would appreciate something like that? (I´d pick the biggest and nicest pieces, so that I don´t pay an arm and a leg for postage). So - if you think you´re interested, just let me know. First come, first served:-)
Mada
Posts: 3,540
I have to say I'm utterly tempted by your kind offer Mada. I'm currently up to my eyeballs in fur, but I can't resist ~ this is the second offer of fur I've had this week, and I'm horribly behind in my bear making.
Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean about people not listening when you say you don't work with that 
Been there, done that and got the t shirt
Posts: 2,203I would love them.
Posts: 2,203I am trying to slowly build up my supplies.
Anavy teddy bearsHi Maggie:) I would have the cheapes shipping I think 
I would use them well )
Iva
Ack, I'm so tempted to beg! I was wanting to try out real fur to see what it's like, but I can't bring myself to buy a coat (warming to the idea of vintage coats, but only rabbit or something equally common: nothing rare! And even then, I'm worried about accidentally getting a modern one 
)... maybe it's all in earnest XD You should find someone nice and close to you
Posts: 3,540
I can easily back out to let the others try real fur :hug: I'm fairly well stocked so I don't need it, and it would be fun if some of the others could give real fur a try 
Just be sure you line the pieces with muslin 
Oh, and use a leather needle too.
i would be interested in mousey size peices lol
esp if they were beign taken out of a bag ...
i have to say i only worked with 1 piece of rabbit - my mouse sold on b4b - and i didnt know i should have lined it, will it be ok debbie?
cat xxxx
Posts: 3,540I was wanting to try out real fur to see what it's like, but I can't bring myself to buy a coat (warming to the idea of vintage coats, but only rabbit or something equally common: nothing rare! And even then, I'm worried about accidentally getting a modern one :(
You can tell from the style and sizes the truly vintage ones, as they tend to be much shorter in the sleeves, and a LOT tighter through the shoulders and waist than a modern coat....with the exception of the 1930s men's raccoon coats. 
I believe the bootleggers in the US TRULY put those to good use packing around their various bottles of whiskey and whatnot And some of those are quite large.
I think this is down to people getting bigger these days. We're taller, have broader shoulders, and certainly longer arms.
Most of the modern coats tend to be rabbit fur, based in a distinctive diamond pattern. I've used one as my first fur to experiment with as I didn't want to 'ruin' anything.....but honestly you've got to start somewhere. Given the opportunity, I would have started with mink. I ended up with forever shedding fur in my eyes and up my nose ~ rather like fine cat hair. Oddly enough I have worked with a rabbit fur coat that was circa 1920 (belonged to my dear friend's grandmother) and the pelts were nothing like the modern ones. They were huge, had a glorious sheen to them, and even though older, the pelts were not giving up the fur! Obviously a different tanning process there 
Raggy Rat... what happens with unlined fur is that you have a seam explosion somewhere. Normally this will occur when you're stuffing the animal, and especially with very thin hides (such as squirrel, mink, rabbit) or dry hides. If you managed to make a mouse, and stuffed it without any visible problems, its very possible you could get lucky and the piece will hold together for ages, especially if you understuffed the mouse to make it 'floppy'.
Its an honest mistake, so don't beat yourself up. :hug: Instead, if this person comes back later and says their mouse died, offer to make a new one, and explain then. Its a bit of a delimma, but I don't think I'd draw attention to the fact it was unlined unless you're truly, truly worried.
With my bears, I do fully line everything, including non stressed areas such as the ears or tail simply because I want to give my bears an opportunity to stand the test of time. Also, if I'm working with a fur that has damage, such as too dry, or I know that an area is particularly delicate, I draw attention to this for a customer (this is working with the person's own fur....most of those were keepsakes, so I worked with what I had). For sale bears, I tend to be really picky about the coats I work with. These are ones that I want to be sure the hides are good, and ditto the fur.
If anyone's going to be doing real fur, I simply cannot recommend Nancy Tillberg's "Teddy Bears with a Past" highly enough!!! Nancy fully walks you through the process with excellent photos, tips and clear instructions. My own copy is tattered and bent open in places, thoroughly read from front to back and back again, and is a much, much, much treasured book 
Everything I learned about making my real fur bears, I learned from Nancy. :hug: She has no idea how much joy she's given me through that book!
wow - great info debbie - lets just hope that as my mouse is sooo small and light weight that it never pops ... the buyer is a dear old friend so if all goes wrong i am sure i can make something else for her but i shall cross my fingers for her sake ...
yikes !
worth knowing then !!!
silly me - i just dive in and like to play !
cat xxxx
s the truly vintage ones, as they tend to be much shorter in the sleeves, and a LOT tighter through the shoulders and waist than a modern coat....with the exception of the 1930s men's raccoon coats. bear_rolleyes I believe the bootleggers in the US TRULY put those to good use packing around their various bottles of whiskey and whatnot bear_whistle bear_laugh And some of those are quite large.
Thanks, Debbie, what a mountain of information!
I've always been firmly against fur, so I have to get over a few ethical qualms before I attempt anything too: I'd never buy anything new so I was worried about true vintage: thanks for clearing that up!
I looked up 'fur' on google the other day and the first site had a Polar Bear rug for $4999... it was awful. £2500 and yu can have an endangered species gutted and laid out in your living room...
I've been watching the coats on Ebay to get a price idea, and I have to say they seem cheaper than most mohairs!
Thanks again
Posts: 3,540If you're having ethical/moral delimmas about using real fur, take a second to read this page from my website http://www.debbiesbears.com/antifurlookhere.htm A lot of using real fur, takes a bit of educating people as to why you want to reutilize it....and the fact that yes, fur was legitimately utilized at one point in history!! In fact, people in Russia still utilize real fur, and given how bitterly cold their winters are, I don't blame them one bit for it!
About the only modern fur I've used has been rabbit. My first bear was from a 1970s rabbit jacket, and just recently, if you see the two colorful bears I have for sale, they are rabbit as well. However, I looked for a Native American supply for the rabbit furs. These means that the rabbit is not just harvested for fur (in fact, you'll find most rabbit fur sales are secondary). The meat is utilized, so the rabbit is not just killed for fur purposes. And no, I'm not going after anyone's pet rabbit, I've had pet rabbits myself, but rabbit meat is one of the best meats known to man!! Yummmmm 
Do yourself a huge favor, though, and avoid anything on the endangered species list. Yes, I realize many of these things were harvested at a time when it was okay, but they HAVE to have the legitimate paperwork with them. I just can't see trying to sort these into teddybears, and then attempting to sort the paperwork. I'm afraid the gov'ts wouldn't stand for it, as it could easily be abused...and I'd certainly see the point to that.
I've had people offer me bear hides to work with in the past, but I wouldn't truly want to work with bear. I've never seen one in the fur, but I would imagine the hides would be incredibly difficult to work with. They kept saying ''wouldn't it be cool to have a bear from a real bear fur?'' Well if you want to simulate bear fur, or go for a real bear look, use raccoon instead. It has the same texture, heft, and look as a grizzly bears....and there's lots and lots of raccoon coats that could use recycling!!
Lastly, YES!!! This is a perfect time to buy furs on ebay because its summertime and people aren't interested in buying coats this time of year. I've gotten many very reasonably priced coats off ebay in the summer because people aren't bidding me up and past my stop out points
VallierBearsI have to say, I would have used real fur in the past but i'm a little more put off now.
Searching through a bin of Vintage real fur stoles and such in london last year really put me off fur. They had so many nice vintage furs and at a really good price about £5 or so. UUntilI touches ssomethingthat made me jump back a yelp a little... I put my hand back in to iinvestigateand pulled out a had with a rraccoontail on. I have to say i've never felt so sick in my life, I almost fainted on the floor in this musty vintage shop! Touching the tail with what felt like bone still in it throughly ddisgustedme. Every time I pet my cat and stroke her tail I remember that tail and right now I don't think I could work with fur.... I guess it just more or less put more of a "face" to those poor vintage animals and I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
Hugs,
Richy~
Yes, i agree with you now Debbie, although I still believe we (not living in Onjacon!) shouln't wear even vintage coats: it still glamorises it... and it smells like wet dog when it rains.
I remember having this debate with a freind (she for new furs, me against) and I couldn't believe the crap she was coming out with... then she came in to see me a few weeks later and told me how awful she felt that the pearls in her new necklace had to be taken out of killed oysters... I was like ??? Double standards?!?
I'm not so bothered about the vintage stuff finding its was back to a cute state as it was in life, but I found one site whilst innocently googling where you could buy a new Polar Bear rug for $4999... it was so awful.
Posts: 3,540I don't push real fur on people who don't want it. I realize everyone's got a different code of ethics, and what comfort zones they work with, and that's completely okay.
I think one major difference is that I was raised by parents who were raised on farms. And I'm sorry, but the farm animals were there for a reason....and they got ate. When we were old enough, my brother and I were part of the work process of rendering the animals for the table (Dad did the 'offing') so we knew exactly where the food came from...and not a box. I'm actually very glad of my upbringing because I do eat meat, and instead of demeaning or making animals 'useless' or 'nothing', it made them that much more important. They weren't just a slab of meat made of something mysterious, but a part of something that we helped to raise, take care of and grow strong.
And I'm sorry, I know very well that a lot of people are vegetarians as they cannot bring themselves to get past the killing of animals. You would not believe the amount of animals killed and wasted each and every time a crop is brought in. Sadly none of those animals are used (unless you count them as ground up and passed along in the crop) and I think that in its own right is a waste.
Also, when I was about 7 years old, I saw some research being done on plants. They attached an EEG to a Philodendron, and then had a fellow come at it with scissors to cut off one of the leaves ~ the graph jumped all over the chart 
That poor plant was screaming!!! And then they showed that they didn't even need to cut the leaf, just think about it and the poor plant did the same.....screamed again. Any ideas of bonsai went completely out the window for me. Although I admire the art, I have great difficulties in pruning, or trimming and shaping plants.
See? I told you, each person has a different comfort zone and I do feel our past experiences are what makes it different. And I have to say, the little tails and faces concept grosses me out too.....right up there with the Victorian habit of stuffing everything and plonking it in your livingroom! I kept waiting for them to stuff Roy Rogers to put on his horse, Trigger.
Lampshire OriginalsI would adore it if the fur is not already gone. I will do it justice.
thanks
Shel
I'm actually a grass eater, but only because my stomach's weird about meat XD
I think I'd have preferred to have a farm background, becasue now I get squicked out by dissections: and if anything, even a biscuit has a face on it I get attached and name them, and before you know it, I have to bury it... XD Sad, i know...
Posts: 3,540:crackup: I thought I was the only one to have problems eating animal crackers and chocolate easter bunnies!! :hug: :crackup:
And yes, you're totally right...not everyone's tummy can handle meat, or dairy, or different veggies or fruits. Everyone's different! And personally I think that makes the world that much neater
Posts: 2,203I believe that animals should not be killed for sport and that fur looks better on them but if an animal is used then find a way to use all of it not just the fur. As far as using fur in bears many people do recycled fur
XD Nope, it's me too! I can't do anything with a face... so creating one from scrapped fur would be nice to try :P
My friends here at Uni don't like it: they think I'm lying... a boy the other day (whilst drunk) told me I wouldn't save any animals... My friend Ben stepped up for me, bless him
chloe - im veggie too and part of it was health but the other was, well how can i pet these ones and eat these other ones? so i gave up meat at uni, away from my parents where i could make choices !
the rabbit scrap fur i made my mouse from was in a stash i had and i podered it regulalry each time i found it ... i deciced it was long dead and possibly aready eaten and so why not give the fur a new life?
im glad i did
the fur is loved now ....
cat xxx
Actually, today is the one-year anniversary of my veggie-dom!
We never ate that much meat at home anyway, but I remember coming home after a particularly bad set of exam results and literally gorging myself on bolognaise from the night before, and then being in agony XD Like I say, I wouldn't touch anything new, but I'd like the opportunity to try with some vintage pelts and of course i wouldn't mind paying the postage too: no way you should lose money on this, Mada!
Bine-TeddiesThere is also another aspect to all of this. Not that I think the few artist bears make much of a different compared to the huge numbers of manufactured bears, but there is an environmental aspect too. Real fur is biodegradable, so is mohair, but not synthetics. The fur and leather preparation often uses unfriendly chemicals, although harmless ways are known. I have bought leather belts from the WWF, which were made in an environmentally friendly way, not sure about furs though. Synthetics are a product from the petro-chemical industry and that means they are part of all the negative effects of oil. Marine wildlife dies in the millions each day if you include plankton, just from the small spills happening all over the oceans all the time. There is hardly a place of ocean without oil. The large spectacular Exxon Valdez type spills are just the tip of the iceberg really. And production of synthetic fibers is anything but good for the environment. Then when you throw your synthetics out (not only furs, but think of your clothes e.g. Goretex) they won't decompose as natural materials do. They have to be burnt with all the nasty chemicals being released and having to be collected and deposited, or they are buried, where they last for centuries until erosion breaks them down.
I don't like cruelty towards animals and wouldn't use a new mink fur unless it maybe came from a certified animal friendly breeder. I prefer vintage furs and think it is nice to honor the animal a last time by making it into a piece of art. I also think its fine to use new furs from animals that are eaten (rabbits, lambs etc.) so nothing goes to waste. However, a fur harms a limited number of individuals, while synthetics harm whole ecosystems and are a much greater problem. Having said that, I can't avoid using synthetics in my clothes and do so for my bears, but it helps put a perspective on things.
Just some food for thought, no judging or finger-pointing from me. We all need to find our own level of ecological awareness that we are comfortable with. And Debbie, you are right, farming of plants is far from environmentally or animal safe. Large scale farming wouldn't be possible if they went and picked up all the birds and rabbits and whatnot that are in the way of the big harvester machines, not to mention all the insects getting killed by pesticides. Vegetarians and vegans who advocate against killing animals tend to ignore those facts. Don't mean to give any of the vegetarians here sleepless nights though.
