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Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)I was thinking about the breaking of fiber last night, while needling Stacey's sample, and decided to needle until the fibers literally broke. It happened around 35 - 40 minutes w/a #36T, into Romney from Wilde Bros.
I was needling the end of a cylinder about 3.5" long. The center is needled to the firmness that I've found in other "very firm' pieces I've bought online and the ends were needled to my firmness.
The center portion can be squeezed in to lose at least 1/4 - 1/3 of it's size.
Eventually the spot that changed from the center to my part suddenly seemed mushy and sure enough, it separated right off the end.
So - it IS possible to overneedle w/Foster's, but I had reached my hard-needle point after about 15 - 20 minutes on the small .75" ends and was really forcing the issue.
There is no reason to needle beyond the point of not being able to squeeze in at all.
Jare Hares & BearsOk... I have been trying to find the time to NF in between work, class, and bunnies.
I think might need to take a class in this. Bobbi, when are you teaching next?
Pasadena, CAMust say, wish you taught here in the Los Angeles CA area Bobbie!
Posts: 65Some beautiful creations here. Felting seems a 'freer' medium - I think I'm too limited in terms of talent to make animals but it is a useful skill, for bits and pieces.
Bobbie says:
"Spinners & weavers on some of my wool lists shot me down when I questioned this, but there's some sort of a stretching (I DO know they do this weighting to the hanks) or 'ironing' process involved which totally straightens out the natural crimp and curl in the production of top (those long, shiny, beguiling ropes of fiber that are so enticing when seen online but are much much harder to work with than the matte-looking fuzzy fibers.)"
Bobbie you are right - fibre loses its crimp during the industrial process that makes your tops, slivers, etc - in fact some mills go to the extent of putting the crimp back in, afterwards!
I suspect the fibre that's less good for spinning tht comes from crosses and meat sheep would be the best for NF - not the sort you can buy from established wool suppleirs, in other words - but the sort the farmers will give you for nothing if you ask! (Well here in the UK. My coalman - also a farmer - offered me 30 fleeces for nothing - he literally can't give them away! Ditto most farmers round here in Yorkshire!) Unprocessed fibre is messy smelly and revolting but probably the best for purpose if you can get it clean yourself.
How's Wensleydale for NF? I keep being tempted by the beautiful dyed locks I buy when I go up the Dales, here:
http://www.wensleydalelongwoolsheepshop.co.uk/
(Put that in for any Brits or anyone who may holiday here soon).
They would make brilliant teddy dreadlocks, and I keep wondering if I could NF them into my ted's heads? And whether they'd stay in locks and keep their integrity? What do you think, ladies?
This book is one of the standard intros to wool breeds and their uses although it was put together before NF really took off, it may still be useful to some of us:
http://www.amazon.com/Sheeps-Clothing-H … 1931499381
Although as I said above, the best wool for purpose is probably going to come from crossbreeds and meat sheep because they have not been bred to produce fine spinning/knitting/weaving wool for centuries, so the wool tends to be fairly low quality (therefore felts). Fournier's book will introduce you to the mysteries of wool counts, etc.
And for those in the UK, you can get entire raw fleeces for less than a fiver from:
http://www.britishwool.org.uk/
They publish a few guides to wools and wool quality, etc.
If anyone wants a hand with natural dyeing, do ask by the way - many natural dyes would have great affinity with teddy colours and to do naturally dyed 'eco-teddies' may well be a sellin point right now! Have been dyeing since the early 1980s, and have written many magazine articles about it to spread the word. Be nice to see the teddy world catching on to it!
[On my son's machine and it won't let me quote or do smiley, so forgive!)
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Hi Jared, The principle things about my Online interactive classes is that the private lessons cost the same as group lessons and you have my complete attention (for NFing!) until you decide you don't have any more questions or discontinue NFing. In other words Forever.
Seriously. I mean that. Even ppl who buy needles from me and kits as well. I still have several ppl from my first classes 4 years ago sending pix for critiques. I call it 'suggestions' on how to change something.
Unless it's an obvious matter of imbalance in features - and not intended as a Picasso wannabe - then I would never tell someone that they've done something *wrong*. That's the Art part in Artist.
If they ASK me what do I see wrong, or how can they achieve something else than the way it's going for them, then I put their images through Photoshop as a Word doc so I can draw on them and demonstrate how I think they can achieve what they want.
I have 2 teaching assignments in July in northern IL - Southern WI, and after that I may start a group class in Aug or wait until after Labor Day and school starting. But individuals can start at anytime. I have 2 students working independently now and 2 that just finished their projects. Not all working on the same projects either. One of the 4 has been working in her own free time for 6 months and the quickest one has finished in about 3 weeks. It all depends on how much time you've got - it makes no difference to me.
Of the 2 options, the benefit of a group class is that you can vicariously experience the work of & suggestions to others, but alone you can work as quickly or as slowly as you wish. Groups are generally completed in 6 weeks. Even at that time rate there're huge advantages to online over in-person classes.
If you feel lousy on the day of a scheduled class, you've got to tough it out. Many the time I've taken classes with a migraine in some one of its phases and was lucky to remember anything later. So much is thrown into your brain in an in-person class that I used to feel frantic to remember it all at the end of the day.
Thinking of that, I LOVE the online classes for my teaching. Do them in your own time, in your PJs (or less), work when it's at your convenience.
Stacey, San Jose & Tucson are as close as I've made it to you!! (Pkg on its way today)
Penny, from the wool lists I'm on, I have seen images of a weighting 'tool' the wool processors use after scouring and putting up in hanks and after dyeing. I don't remember its name (I LV the fanciful names like Lazy Kate and Niddy Noddy...) but after hanging the hank up to dry *something* is looped over or hung on the fiber to stretch it or not allow it to pull back up into its natural curl, in place while drying. If this isn't stretching the natural crimp out, I don't know what is. I figured that commercial processors do it with machines & steam.
I suspect the fibre that's less good for spinning that comes from crosses and meat sheep would be the best for NF -
What breeds (as well as individual animals) make good Worsted ply/yarn are different from the qualities looked for for woolen. Crosses could go either way, from the experience I've had. In terms of WET felting, the Down breeds/meat breeds, like Cheviot, Clun Forest, Dorset, Suffolk don't 'felt'. But most of them DO Needle Felt, though they give a different end result from the standard 'yarn' breeds.
I say to choose the fiber (breed) for the project and finally match the needles to the fiber type.
The Down fleeces have a LOT of springiness. It's more like a combination or curl & crimp. If it's used as a core fiber, no matter how firmly needled, it will retain a certain amount of that spring. The elastic quality of this type remains. Needling a firmer fiber over it will make it a bit more rigid so it has the best of both styles.
I would don't use it for any of my retail work as it doesn't compact as solidly, and I want nothing to change in my designs after they've left my hands.
I do use it for demo purposes because it does needle together quickly.
I suspect the fibre that's less good for spinning that comes from crosses and meat sheep would be the best for NF -
I do know a number of producers/small flock owners who will sell these fibers; one of the nicest qualities is that I work in miniature and these tend to be less than 3 or 4" long. Trying to rein in a 5" fiber into a 2" design is challenging to say the least.
Pick the breed/fiber to fit the project!
but the sort the farmers will give you for nothing if you ask! .....offered me 30 fleeces for nothing - he literally can't give them away! Unprocessed fibre is messy smelly and revolting but probably the best for purpose if you can get it clean yourself.
Yep, you've found out a good source. However, as you've also found out, the meat producers don't give a toss what the outside of the skin looks like! Many times over the amount of filth in the fleece....
Whether or not it's worth it to you is how much time do you have to devote to cleaning it. After skirting, will there be enough usable fiber to make it worth your while? You may have up to 75% loss after the icky bits are eliminated and the dirt cleansed out...
How's Wensleydale for NF? I keep being tempted by the beautiful dyed locks I buy when I go up the Dales,
One of my first purchases back in 2000 was a fabulous shining black Wensleydale fleece. I was in the midst of elder-care and it sat in its dry paper bag for 2 years. When I pulled it out it was one solid gummed-together mess. Besides the fact that lanolin and suint, etc..absolutely gag me, I knew after a few hours that I was never going to recover that investment. It also taught me that there aren't enough hours for NFing, much less cleaning/dyeing/and everything else. So - I support the small flock owners!!
The locks would be wonderful to use on their own.They'll needle in brilliantly. Those long looong Pollyanna curls are Soooo tempting, but at 5 - 8" long, they'd rather overwhelm my 3" tall work!!!
I've had 2 copies of the Fourniers' book since shortly after it came out in paperback. A Bible to me. It's what made me realize that I must put down my experience for NFers, as theirs is geared to spinners/weavers/knitters/dyers/wet felters.
You've got a wealth of info to share on dyeing - you may get drawn into other conversations and chapters on our lists here, as many of the bearmakers do custom dye their fabrics, both natural (mohair, alpaca, cotton - what a subject that is, with acid & fiber reactive dyes needed for the same piece!! ) and synthetics.
Your experience will be in demand here. Be sure to keep checking the Tips & Techniques section, or start a Topic on your own!
This took me over 2 hours to one-finger type. I'm going to go do some Photoshopping now & say 'gnite!
Jare Hares & BearsBobbi -
I was thinking that the next time I mow grandma's yard, you could come over and teach me about NF while I am mowing the grass. Multi-tasking is such a wonderful thing. Well, mum does come with me... so maybe she could mow the grass and you can teach me NF... :crackup:
Where online are you teaching?
There is so much to learn! It is a totally new medium to me. I normally would do this on my own and learn as I go, but I would really like to get the information from someone who knows. I do have some wool that I got from the "other" mohair place... and some needles that I picked up at a local quilt shoppe, but I just haven't had the time to work with it.
Posts: 65Aw I'll do that. You tend to take your experience for granted and I didn't really think of my natural dyeing skills at all, when I started teddy making (only last October) as I know mohair isn't always easy to dye so presumed people would only be using chemical dyes (of which I have zero knowledge/experience!) But looking at this thread, it occured to me that natural dyed fibres would lend themselves to NF especially - something we'll have to explore! I'm a bit wary of getting into NF though as there's not enough hours in the day to do the crafts I already do! (Have started learning calligraphy too! Handy for bear labels, if nothing else!)
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Penny, most bear-makers know that the backing for our favorite fabrics are cotton and the fiber is of animal.
Rit dyeing is NOT the way to go!
Paula Burch (Google) has the most easily understandable website (I send a private, personal TY to her everytime I check out something in ther information.
These combined fibers take 2 entirely different types of dyes. And the synthetic fabrics also need specialized treatments.
If you have 25 years of dyeing experience, I hope you'll pose questions or volunteer information; the dialoging that we've had here this week is a prime example of Teddy Talk at its BEST!!!
Jared, I teach through a private Yahoo list I've organized for this purpose, called Gathered Wool, a juxtaposition of my Bears & Buds column, Wool Gathering.
It's by invitation after paying the fee so it won't show up on their Search feature: the Lesson Plans are posted there and the pictures are put into Albums. Files and every other usual yahoo group option is the same.
With individuals, I send the Lessons directly via email. The student sends images to me as they work and we work one-on-one as long as you need or until you say you're done, no time limit.
There are about 4 dozen emails of NFing information and 7 Official Lessons. I have not set a date for a group class as I have the summer teaching jobs (in-person), some medical stuff to take care up and, if all goes according to plan, teaching in Taiwan and exhibiting in Seoul (with Lynette!!) in late Fall.
Most ppl don't start new projects like this in Dec so it will be the New Year before another group class is formed.
And your grass won't need mowing then, so if you'd like to take the class, I'm always open to individuals.
Our Flying Fur Heather's been pushing me to post about this or offer it on eBay (mine is less expensive than the presently posted class and you receive tons more materials than just 4 emailed PDFs); I will do so after Labor Day.
Thx for asking. I thought that you and Jane already did NFed accents on your work....
Well, creating whole sculptures is a bit different, and the additional information is work that I'm extremely proud of!
Jare Hares & BearsNo, mum and I have just enough time to get our orders out. We are finishing up our Toy Fair orders now. Usually we are done with those by the end of April or the middle of May. More business this year, which is great. Sometimes we were waiting on supplies and there is nothing we can do about that. The ones that requested pre-Easter got their orders 1st.
I have toyed with the idea of adding NF to my work and I do have some ideas of things I want to try, but right now I am busy trying to get caught up and then get ready for EXPO. Wanna come help?
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Gosh I wish I could. I've been to Idex but not Toy Fair,. These old aching joints just won't let me travel anymore. Which is why it's especially sweet to make room for Schaumburg and seeing all of my old & new friends in exactly 4 MONTHS from today!!!
Posts: 65From a natural dyeing point of view, mohair and cotton are not great news! Has occured to me that what I could most usefully do is take a small sample of mohair fibre, and maybe a little sample square of teddy fabric, and drop in each dye pot from now on, and see what happens! Is one of those ones where you'd need to build a range of hands on experience which I don't have, with these fibres. (Wool or silk - is a different matter!) But from now on, whenever I do a dyepot (and they're very irregular) will drop in some teddy samples (maybe alpaca too) and see how it goes.
Off the top of my head, I suspect substantive dyes like walnut husks, anything tree based with lots of tannin, and maybe the sort of dye pot like indigo/woad where you do repeated dippings and airings, might give the best results. But that's just a guess. We could also exploit the fact the fibre and backing take dye up differently, if it gave a depth to the colour, or something. But I really don't know. Thanks Bobbie, you've given me so much food for thought - now I'm going to start including teddy fibres and fabrics in my dye lots, just out of curiosity!
One thing we forget is that everything in the world was dyed with natural substances until 1861 - and look at the fresh and subtle colours you get on medieval tapestries, or, say, Regency patchworks. So natural dyes are not only ecologically sound but also last. And yet I've seen photos of 1930's red, pink or blue teddies where the colour has so much faded it's almost gone... So there is an aspect of durability to this, too.
I dye infrequently and may do 3 different lots in a week then none for 3 months, but will start experimenting and feedback on a new thread as I get results.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Thx Penny, your input will be invaluable. Be sure to post the topic to the Tips & Techniques section so others will easily find it.
Interestingly enough, I do have some black walnut in the frig in a spritz bottle.
Jared, at my last show in Oct 02 Schb'g you told me to drive on out to the river and you'd send me home with bucketsful. Well, the trees at my in-laws' came through that year and I steeped my own Black Walnut dye.
I kept it in bottles in the frig - CAREFULLY MARKED!! - for several years, until a mold created a swamp-like coagulation in the center and I'd switched to NFing in the meantime.
I wasn't too happy with my fabric results, and keep the small spritzer on hand to treat paper products, like the presentation boxes for my bears and the odd certificate or 2 that I might create.
Jare Hares & BearsWell Bobbie -
If you still want to drive out to Polo for walnuts you're welcome to. The old farmers would come by when we were little and ask if they could have our walnuts. They would take bucket loads home... Now I have to rake them up before mowing... yuck!
Pasadena, CAStacey's sample
...
The center is needled to the firmness that I've found in other "very firm' pieces I've bought online and the ends were needled to my firmness.
Thank you for the sample Bobbie, it really helped me understand what you mean by "firm" and also tells me I'm on the right track.
Another question...
Charlotte said:
Bobbie, I can't believe the difference in how well the wool felts if you fluff it up with the carders!!!
I have read and read trying to figure this out, it's probably just the forest for the trees syndrome, but I can't understand why fluffing wool before felting would make it compact better. To me, it seems the more compact to start with, the closer you are to the final result. I have seen tuts where they suggest rolling something into a tight ball and then start the felting.
For my third felt, I have used a wire armature and built up with layers. I don't have carders, but I have been taking pieces and lying them vertical and horizontal and then start to felt.
Charlotte Des Roches DesignsI have read and read trying to figure this out, it's probably just the forest for the trees syndrome, but I can't understand why fluffing wool before felting would make it compact better. To me, it seems the more compact to start with, the closer you are to the final result. I have seen tuts where they suggest rolling something into a tight ball and then start the felting.
I know that Bobbie has explained this before & I cannot for the life of me find what she said about it right now. But I just know what a major difference it makes for me, if I card my wool before needle felting it..I know also that I used to roll things into a tight ball to start...and then I ran into the Dreaded "Tennis Ball" Effect....and that's how I first heard from Bobbie...she explained it so perfectly way back when I started needle felting...lol 2 years ago almost.
Hugs &
