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lapousmor Jul 5, 2007

This used to happen a lot in my beginnings at needle felting.

And lastly it happened almost never...

I may have stayed too long without needle felting anything.

I am currently finishing to needle felt eyelids to a bear. This needle felted part is almost finished.
But I already broke 4 needles on it!!!!
I think one of them had a weak point, because it broke only after two pokes without any reason!

Needle felting onto mohair is not that easy, finally! i need to constantly be careful not to break more needles.

I may not be using the best needles though... i have no knowledge about the best way to choose neddles and in my local craft shop, they only have three sizes they call small, medium and large.
That makes me smile as it is much complex in real life according what I read in Bobbie's posts.
For sure, the day I want to go into more serious needle felting I wil ask Bobbie's advices and pray that I understand all technical explanations (in English, that's not easy!).

And what about you?
Do you often break needles?
I know some talented needle felters here almost never break some...

BUT I never poked seriously my fingers so far (well, never more than a tiny hole).
That's the advandage of needle felting over another material.

Beary hugs,
Sophie.

TeddyTyke Jul 5, 2007

Maybe you could find a specialist supplier who you can buy mail order, from? I've not needlefelted for years, but the needles I used came from a spinner's and weaver's supplier, and none of them broke.  Also, I've noticed the things sold as 'leather needles' or 'glovers' needles' in local sewing shops or even craft specialists are feeble upto the 'proper' ones you can buy direct from a leather supplier. Again, the specialist ones seem to not only be stronger, but be in a different league from the stuff you buy in haberdashers'. And yet they cost the same!

Little Bear Guy Jul 5, 2007

Hi Sophie,

I would get in touch with Bobbie Ripperger  she is on Teddy Talk and I know she sells needles and I'm sure they are not that expensive to have shipped over to you.  Her website is www.beyondbasicbears.com  or send her a pm on here.  Needles shouldn't break that easily to be honest,  they should last a long time, but again it does depend on the quality of needles and I know the one Bobbie sells are high quality ones.

Hope this helps

big hugs

shane

rkr4cds Jul 5, 2007

TY Shane, (and following another thread in mentioning your S'man shirt, I forgot to mention your svelte new mid-section!).

Sophie, of the 4 major manufacturers I researched in the early 00s, Foster Needles were the most information specific. I liked that, as it made the information on their website about their manufacturing process and the many different types of needles as easy to understand for a beginner as an advanced user.

they only have three sizes they call small, medium and large.
That makes me smile as it is much complex in real life

I cannot even begin to tell you how angry a description like that makes me!!!!!
When retailers order needles, they must give specific inventory or size numbers to receive each product they'll carry. They do every singe needle felter SUCH a disservice in not passing on the needle size/style.
The manufacturers have a minimum order of a box of 1000 per size & style of every needle they produce. That makes it a heavy investment in carrying many more that the standard 3 or 4 that everyone else carries. Many needle felters are unaware of the different styles available and are unable to justify (or budget) purchasing 1000 needles of the 4 - 8 needles that work best for their NFing style.

I know that this will step-on-some-toes, but if it's true, then *That's just tough!*: there are/were far too many retailers selling needles (and fibers) without having a working knowledge of Needle Felting. Many of those have already liquidated that part of their business, because they didn't have repeat customers: they didn't know enough about the products they carried or Needle Felting in general to be able to market this craft, preferring to use it solely for money-making while it was the Hot, New Thing in Bear Making!

When customers asked what was recommended to buy, they just repeat(ed) "the company line" about Large for beginning, Medium for firming and Small for Finish work.
Nothing about which fibers those needles will be working, nothing about the type of project being needled, etc.. etc..

If you like a particular needle or worse, *don't* like a certain needle, how will you know which ones to re-purchase and which to avoid???
What is 'Small' to one NFer is 'Medium' to another, depending on the size (thickness/micron size or count) of the fiber you're needling.

Needles should absolutely be stated and sold as Brand, Size, Style and Barb count & placement.
Once one has experimented with different types, they'll learn which ones work best for the fiber they use (or find available through many different sources) and the type (firmness) of NFing they like to produce.

The degree of firmness one likes is important because most needles are advertised as the following:
#36 (Tri or Star) for beginning, rough work, #38 T or S, for firming up and #40 & 42 for fine details.

I always refer back to choosing the fiber for a project first and then choose your needles to match that particular fiber: you may need only 36 & 38, or 38 & 40 or 42.
AND, decide how firm or soft your sculpture will be at the end.
It all depends on which size needles and the size of their barbs as to which will most effectively carry the fiber from the outside thoroughly into the inside of the mass.

If I use a Corriedale, Rambouillet or Romney to build most of my sculpture with, #40 & 42 are not likely to have much impact into the fiber, after I've moved into and past the #38 needles: it's already too firm for the 40/42 to push fiber inside.
Those 2 sizes are always advertised as being most helpful in creating fine detailing with. What has been left out is : This works only when needling with fine fibers, which have been softly sculpted.

And as I've already firmly needled past the #38 stage, no way will a 'puny' thinner needle be able to push serious lines or indentations into my work: I go back to my largest needles - 36 T and/or S - to move all underlying fiber into a different direction and then smooth the surface with 38 and perhaps a 40.

As my core was firmly and solidly built with #36 and then evened out a bit with 38 I use the 40 & 42 to work only the top outer 'skinning' layer - ONLY IF I'm layering on one of the really thin, fine wools. Otherwise I stop at 38 T & S.

Knowing that these different sizes work different areas (depths) in my sculptures, I choose the barb placement & arrangement purposely to be most efficient: 36 has barbs covering the whole working area from tip to top of working shaft, the 38 has barbs close to the tip but not extending up as far as I won't be plunging those needles in as deeply. And 40 & 42's barbs are placed the closest together and closer to the tip because I penetrate only deep enough to work the suface area.

Needles are sold in many different configurations of number & placements; I choose what I consider to be universal at working a certain area (depth) of the sculptures and then advise the customers which ones will work best according to the sheep breed/fiber they have.

My advice would be to approach all Needle Felting projects this way, from embellishments through full structures, in this order:
* Decide on the final size of the project.
* Decide on whether you need it to be very firm or somewhere in the range from very firm toward very soft.
* Choose a fiber whose length will be easiest to draw into the surface: not too long for a small project.
* Choose a fiber that needles easily (fuzzier, matte-looking instead of shiney & smooth)
* Choose the appropriate needles according to the fiber size/thickness.
* Build from the inside outwards, layering on more fiber in chosen spots, rather than rolling the fiber for the emtire piece or body part up at once and possibly adding more by wrapping the strands around the whole piece.

Sophie, you make yourself brilliantly clear in English; if you ever question something I write, I'll keep explaining it in different ways until it does make sense!!

I'm going to post your question in the Needle Felting section, too, so other NFers will see this.

MerBear Jul 6, 2007

When did you say that book was coming out? I can see it's going to be the most definitive tome on the market for needlefelters! I bet you can pre-sell copies - like they're doing with Harry Potter!

Marion

rkr4cds Jul 9, 2007

LOL - Thx Marion.

I've recently experienced another instance of finding my own words coming out of someone else's mouth, from an obscure interview I gave to a non-bear related webzine. Anything I write has an automatic © applied... and I DO recognize my own words. They're my Babies!!

So that I do not come off as a pinch-hitter, or have legal complications when the original materials appear (already placed for several years) in my manuscript, I'm re-prioritizing: I've continued to winnow down my computer surfing time and dropped a number of yahoo group lists (but Never TT!!!) and am devoting the next 18 months to serious writing.

This WILL happen, after over 5 years already in the making.

If I appear to miss a specific question or topic -  Someone, ANYone,  please PM me to catch my attention. I can't stand to think that you'd talk about Tips & Tecniques, nifty tools & accessories, and about NFing without me knowing about it.

rkr4cds Jul 9, 2007

And an FYI, Marion graciously re-typed my '95, pre-computer book on Min-bear making, Tried & True Tips for Better Built Bears (what can I say - I'm hopelessly alliterative), as I'd hoped to immediately launch a CD/DVD version of it. That's still on-a-back-burner, too.....