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I'm always torn at shows. Naturally, I would like my bears to be purchased by collectors on the day, but the shows I attend, allow trade buyers in 'to look' prior to opening their doors to the public. In fact, I'm not usually set up by the time the trade buyers come in (!) but I do often get approached to sell my bears to trade, as soon as the show opens. More often than not, if this happens, they want the real showpiece bears that I have worked my heart and soul into, and of course, they want a significant discount.
Now, my dilemma is always, do I accept trade buyers, give them their discounts and breathe a sigh of relief that I can rest assured my day is paid for before lunchtime, (even if not as profitable as I would have hoped), or, do I ask them to come back after the queue of eager collectors outside has had first choice of my latest bears?
I'd love to know how other artists tackle this problem!
Laurie Lou BearsI have only done one show so haven't come across this but if it were me I would probably be tempted but it is still an awkward predicament as they are likely to pick out all your bears that you know could be your better sellers.I would feel a bit guilty that when people came through the door that they had lost the chance to see my full selection especially when the best bears had gone and they were the ones that would have drawn people to your table.You could end up wishing you had sold to the traders as you didn't have a very good day or it worked the other way and you sold enough of your bears so it didn't matter that much.The only other thing is will you lose a good future customer of your bears if the trade buyers buy from you and want to buy again at a later date?
Do the trade buyers come back again later at the show or do they just want to buy at the start of the day when they can have the pick of the best bears?
Laurie :hug:
Pandy Potter BearsGood question Paula. I've not done shows for years but had this problem, it opened my eyes a little. Just to say I've been on both sides as I used to have a bear shop.
I was at one of the big London shows, first time, and a well known shop owner and maker asked at the start of the show if I would sell my bears. To cut a long story short. 
I gently explained it was my first big show and if he wanted to come back at the end....I was very generous with my discounts (as I had a shop and knew what the mark up had to be) so I felt I couldn't have been fairer. I got the most rude response, not in itself but very sarcastic and was made to feel as if I was an idiot for turning HIM down. I don't care how well known the person was, who wants to deal with that. I did really well, and went home with a smile on my face. Of course he never came back as I had dared to say no. Not a lot left anyway! 
I don't think it fair that a shop expects to have your best work at a discount price. I as a shop seller, would always ask early on but say I would come back later. Its so hard to be fair but all said and done if you do have any bears left Paula, they are hardly going to be duds or bad ones. The shop would still have fantastic bears. If they are snotty and won't come back later, well its all one sided on their part.
If the shop is good and has a good reputation they will understand, and if they do understand you know they will be good to work with. Hope this helps.
q.D.paToOtieSI guess I'm a big meanie. I tell trade buyers that I don't give discounts. My bears are priced as such that I really don't think I need to. More than often, they end up buying them anyway but they have to "think" about it awhile which gives collectors a chance at their first choice.
I don't sell to trade at fairs..if I have 12 or so bears to sell they are for visitors to the fair to buy direct from me. I won't sell before the opening to anyone especially if the bear has appeared on my show preview..it's not fair. If fact I won't often sell them at the end either at discount because I know I can use the ones who maybe haven't been adopted to update my website with. I just say no...it's not a trade fair...If anyone wants to buy for a shop I will sell..but at the going rate on the day. I think it's only fair...but I won't part with a single thing till the show is open to the public.
I learned it the hard way when a lady had travelled a long way to see my bears and wanted one that I had put on my preview..and when she got there someone had nabbed him..I vowed that day never again...so now I just say 'sorry..I only have these bears and I want my customers to see all of them when the show opens, people are coming from a long way away, queued up, paid to get in and it's only fair to them to get a choice of all my bears'
If I am left with a few on the day so be it...
Tami Eveslage Original Teddy BearsMore often than not, if this happens, they want the real showpiece bears that I have worked my heart and soul into, and of course, they want a significant discount.
That is the case isn't it!!!
I was at one of the big London shows, first time, and a well known shop owner and maker asked at the start of the show if I would sell my bears. To cut a long story short. I gently explained it was my first big show and if he wanted to come back at the end....I was very generous with my discounts (as I had a shop and knew what the mark up had to be) so I felt I couldn't have been fairer. I got the most rude response, not in itself but very sarcastic and was made to feel as if I was an idiot for turning HIM down. I don't care how well known the person was, who wants to deal with that. I did really well, and went home with a smile on my face. Of course he never came back as I had dared to say no. Not a lot left anyway!
I had an experience just like that although it was not my first show. I was approached by a very reputable US shop owner who pointed at my "showpiece" and asked if I sell wholesale to shops. I replied that I didn't sell wholesale at a retail show, but that I would be happy to make an exclusive edition for her shop if she was interested. She replied that they only sold one of a kind bears, and turned on her heals before I could say, "Then I'll make an exclusive one of a kind if you'd like." Then my most expensive bear, my showpiece, was the first thing to sell full price to a collector. 
I still say that I won't sell my show bears wholesale at a retail show, and I offer to create something specifically for them. I only have one shop which has my work and soon one more, but both are very reputable shops, so that is enough for me.
Little Bear GuyI have to agree with Lisa on this one, if someone in the trade wants to buy bears prior to the show then I tell them they can buy them at the prices I have set or they can come back at the end of the show and talk to me. I mean they are going to double the price on my bear so why should I sell to them with a discount when I can sell it for full price to a collector.
Someone once told me they had someone in the trade come to their table in the morning and purchase bears from them at a discount . What they didn't know was this trade person also had a table at the show and took her product back to their table and marked it up and sold every piece that they had bought from her. So I figure why do that when you could have kept them on the table and done the same thing and for full price.
Paula in your case if a trade is after your nicest pieces then I would do the same thing, tell them they can buy it at the retail price or risk losing it to a collector. If they want it bad enough they will pay the price for it, especially if it's a one of a kind I mean why even give a discount on a one of a kind piece if you are never going to make another one then it makes it more desirable and should be sold for full price even to a trade as they will sell it as a one of a kind and likely mark it up even higher.
big hugs
Shane
Posts: 8,574Yikes!!!!! What a dilemma....ok joking aside....I have never experienced your situation but do think you ask the best questions and thank you, again, for such a thought provoking topic. 
Sounds to me like they deliberately take advantage of the situation they put you in. and both sides of the coin to sell or not to sell have good reasons. Its a pity the organizer doesn't have a rule about this sort of thing.
Don't we have some show managers/organizers? I hope they weigh in with their thoughts, be interesting to see it from their point of view. Do we have any of the trade buyers as well?
And nt to sound too ignorant, but what exactly is a trade buyer? In case I am assuming the wrong thing?
thanks, Paula
hugs
dilu
Country BearsYikes indeed Dilu!! I think I would be scared to death if I had someone like this approach me at a show - I would definitely spend the whole show under the table!! 
Is a trade buyer different to a shop seller? I'm a bit put off shows now!! 
Clare they might be buying for a big shop, like Hamleys, a gift company like the POCO Andante people..or a website. In any case I really think if they want trade discount it must not be from items on display at a fair. I have talked to many people who have this problem at fairs..and I don't blame the shops for trying..they are in business too.
But when people completely sell out at fairs they will often add that they let a few bears go to trade. I have done it myself then thought I was silly since I would get home to a list of emails from good loyal customers who were waiting to see who came home. I know that trade buyers will come round before the show starts, I like to chat to them but I can't sell anything unless it's after the start of the show and at full price on the day. I might give in right at the end of the day but even then I am not keen.
I remember a guy once telling me in all seriousness that bear artists tend to only last about 3 years before they fade away so I needed to get in with shops while I could..I nearly believed him.
I do think it's hard work selling bears and PR is something that is necessary...and being visible in shops can be very useful to maintain a profile in the industry ..but I don't ever see myself making more than 2 bears a week..if that... so Steiff won't ever have to worry about me LOL. I am happy with the status quo and if I ever have to sell my work that hard I might take up something else...like stone masonry or something LOL!!
Strange BearsI can only tell you this, as a show organiser I ask all traders NOT to sell before he door opens, without collectors, retail traders and artists don't have a business and therefore we should all put them first!!
A happy collector will keep coming back..........and I know of more than one show that has a reputation of NOT being worth going to because "......all the best bears are sold before the doors open!"
I even hesitate to sell to other artists........because collectors know we do this and resent it.
So work out who your market really is and where you really want to sell to........there is a business in only supplying trade shops .......but is that where you want to be.
Great comments - many thanks for your input everyone!
To answer the 'what is a trade buyer' question: they can be retail outlets, shop owners, sales purchasers etc. Generally speaking they expect a healthy discount (to cover 'overheads') if they buy your bears and will ask what you are prepared to offer them if they buy from you. Most often, they elect to buy from your table on show days if they like your work and are happy with the discount you offer. However, some will be prepared to contact you at a later date to have your work made especially for their outlet. As a rule of thumb, I prefer to implement a minimum purchase requirement when dealing with trade. If you haven't sold at shows before, it's worth having a good think about where you want to stand with regard to trade approaches at shows. If you have your terms set before the show opens, you will be in a far stronger position than if you are caught 'on the hoof' ... (which has happened to most of us!)
Sandra, our shows sound as though they are run pretty much the same as yours when it comes to trade ... the trade buyers are allowed in a little earlier to 'chat' to stall holders, but no sales must take place prior to opening. I'm usually in such disarray when they turn up, it's a pointless exercise trying to hold a sensible conversation with me at that point anyway!
I have found though, that trade buyers can be mighty quick off the mark first thing when the show opens and that's when the dilemma usually occurs. I really hate this situation and have tried both ways of dealing with it over the years ... from 'no sales to trade on show days whatsoever', to 'okay, I'd like some guaranteed cash at this show so yes, you can take what you want'. I think it's a really tricky situation. On the occasions I have accepted major trade buyers at my stand, I have at least gone home with a complete sellout and a pocket full of cash, which let's face it, is entirely necessary after working to stock my table for a month prior, with no income - at least these guys don't mess around when they are given discount and tend to buy several big bears at a time. The one thing I have never tried though (thanks for the pointer Shane!) is saying 'yes you may buy from me, but no trade discounts on show days'! So maybe that's worth a try in future.
I think my main bone of contention with trade buyers at shows, is that these particular buyers could place orders easily enough, without needing to buy from the 8/9 show bears I have on my table that day. There's nothing to stop them visiting the show to view work, then organising an order for the future, rather than cleaning out an artist's table on show day. That way, the artist can plan work to fit cash flow so much more effectively and it would mean collectors visiting the show wouldn't be disappointed after their long journey. I know there are trade visitors who do work on this basis, but there are also plenty who want want they see on the day ... I was horrified to read the comment about the trade buyer who bought at discount from an artist and then sold all the bears on her own shop stand at THE SAME SHOW! That's really not cricket!!! 
As Jenny says, it is sometimes tough to stay firm when a show has been slow in terms of sales, but to be honest, I prefer to chance it and offer first choice to my list of internet customers who weren't able to make the show, because I feel it's unfair to them not to offer them first choice on the latest bears when these lovely people are the backbone of my business.
In fact, that brings me round to the question of reservations ... how do we all feel about those? I don't tend to pre-sell my show work these days, but will confess to having done so in the past when shows were painfully unreliable and also, because it meant my loyal overseas collectors didn't have to be snubbed, but is it ethical to advertise attendance at a show and accept reservations in advance of the show?
I guess as a bear artist it all comes down to deciding categorically where you stand on these issues BEFORE you open for business on show day and then of course, you have to stick to your plan! :/
As Sandra sums up:
So work out who your market really is and where you really want to sell to........there is a business in only supplying trade shops .......but is that where you want to be.
Perfect advice - thanks Sandra!
In fact, that brings me round to the question of reservations ... how do we all feel about those? I don't tend to pre-sell my show work these days, but will confess to having done so in the past when shows were painfully unreliable and also, because it meant my loyal overseas collectors didn't have to be snubbed, but is it ethical to advertise attendance at a show and accept reservations in advance of the show?
I have absolutely no problem with allowing collectors to reserve bears ahead of a show - especially if they are coming a long way and won't be able to get there for the opening rush (which we all hope will happen!). It allows them to arrive unflustered, knowing that they can pick up their special bear once they have got their breath back, and also gives them a chance to wander around the rest of the show in case they miss something else! I usually ask for a 25% deposit up front to hold the bear, which is forfeited if the person doesn't turn up by a pre-arranged time. This works for me as well, since it means I can still have bears on my stand until the afternoon - from which orders and commissions for similar bears can be taken.
I also don't have a problem with letting my overseas customers reserve bears from my show previews. I was one of the first UK artists to start putting up preview pages on my website many years ago and took the view then that, since a lot of my collectors live too far away to get to a show, it seemed unfair to exclude them from reserving a bear from my preview. However, I do try to create a balance, in that I do not put ALL of my show bears on a preview, so that there are always more bears to choose from for the collectors who can make it to a show in person. Since I established this way of working some time ago, I am reluctant to change it now.
I try to be fair to everyone and, so far, my collectors seem to be happy with the arrangement. Perhaps because I have always been happy to take commissions - which I know some artists prefer not to do - my collectors are comfortable with the fact that, if they miss out on a particular bear at a show, they can always order one later. I do find that a lot of people like to come and look first, then go away and think about it and come back. If I have sold some of the bears in advance, then I know that all my expenses are covered, even if I take more orders than make actual sales on the day.
Chris
Hi everyone 
Yes, I certainly agree that you have to work out in advance in which direction you want to go with regard to trade buyers. I know from painful personal experience when I was exhibiting at a show, and a buyer approached me. She started asking me about the discount I would be prepared to give her etc. and I was totally unprepared! I felt my face go all hot and red, and I felt really awkward. :redface: I politely said that I was sorry but "No", but then when she went away, I kept wondering whether I had done the right thing, particularly as the show was not well attended.
So, definitely be prepared! Decide on your direction and stick with it!!!
Hugs
Marilyn
Posts: 8,574This has been one of the most thought provoking topics. Thank you everyone for your exchange of ideas, now to get good enough to have a table at a show.....
dilu
Jane Perala Designs Ltd.Jenny, I really like your response - I wish I had thought of that when I was going to shows. It was always a very hard thing to turn them down, and I didn't like to lose a sale. However, you are right that the collectors should have first crack at them.
Jare Hares & BearsI remember a guy once telling me in all seriousness that bear artists tend to only last about 3 years before they fade away so I needed to get in with shops while I could..I nearly believed him.
Well you can tell him that I have been doing this since 1990 and my mom has been at this since 1982. Last year was her 25th Anniversary. There are artists who come and go, but there are many of us who have been at this for a long time.
Maybe this advice would help some of you.
Mom and I make a line of bears that we wholesale to the trade. These are pieces that are only availble through the shoppes that carry our pieces. We do not sell these bears/bunnies at retail ourselves. If we are at a retail/collector show then what we have on the table is available to anyone. If a shoppe wants to buy a piece off the table, then they do so knowing that we retail those pieces as well. We offer discount to the shoppes at shows, but they are less than the discounts of our wholesale line. I like making bears and would like to continue to do so for many years.
If you want to wholesale then do it, but then remember that you need to have a business mind set. That means that you need to get pieces to the shoppes in a timely fashion, not 6 years from now. I work closely with my shoppes to provide them with what they need for their collectors. I still maintain the creative control and am able to make the pieces that I want.
I might not make as much per piece, but by working with the shoppes and offering bears that they can sell, I make up the difference or more in the end. By turning over my money I end up better off in the end.
This is not something for everyone.
Wholesale is not a 4 letter word. 
