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Jellybelly BearsI been having a worrying time with my puppy Pippin the last few days. I have been looking at dog web sites, forums...no one gives any hint of an answer to my puppy's symptoms, so, thought I'd ask here since we seem to be a dog/bear group haha
He's a little Papillon, 14 months old now, and I took him for his first walk 4 days ago, he came home with itchy eyes, morning came and his eye was swollen shut, took him to the vets, he gave him an allergy shot, we were told to increase his steroid medication (for his itchy skin condition "bullae") for three days, continue with his antihistamine tablets for same condition, and also give him some drops for his eyes. (turned into a $150 walk!)
so, two days pass and he is all better, eyes bright. I take him for another walk, keeping to the middle of the street this time as the vet said this would be okay, comes home, happy...but two hours later he walks past the room where my mum is shampooing the carpet (very noisy plus slight smell but not overpowering) and he starts acting really weird, he squints like he can't see, is wobbly, whimpering and scared, and the scariest thing was his eyes were rolling around in his head, like he couldn't control them. he keeps blinking, trying to clear his eyes and see properly, but they continue to go off in different directions....
so, rang the vet, but once I took him into the fresh air he perked up. so, we don't go to the vet thinking it was the fumes of the carpet shampooer. we also stop his drops incase it was that, and his eyes are better.
so....same day, night time, he starts to play with his toys running about, and begins blinking again, almsot like he is flinching. we wait and watch him to see if it progresses, it got worse over 5 mins, and before i knew what was happening, he stumbles toward me, eyes blinking and unfocused, swimming around his head again, little bit of a tremble, but more coz he's scared and can't see where he is going.....so, i scoop him up and take him outside, he clears up in a few minutes again.....this time we could eliminate the fumes and the noise....but i was still thinking it could be the walk, hypoglyceamia maybe as hes a little dog?
he sleeps well overnight and next day he is fine, he is only on his normal medication now (steroid and antihistamine for his skin) by night time he looks like he is over it all and will be okay. But beofre bed i give him his night time pills, on a bit of cream cheese for easy swallowing, and he begins again, squinting, blinking, eyes going everywhere....was it the cold of the cheese on his tongue? I've ruled eveything out, he hadn't exercised, he's off his eye drops and there is no infection anymore....no shampoo fumes....so...is this the beginnings of epilepsy??? and things like noise, cold trigger it? has anyone had these symptoms in their small dogs??? help, very worried mummy!!!! I will take him to the vet on monday but i doubt he's going to know, I'm in there all the time I reckon the guy must think i have a crush on him lol. I just feel like I've got a dog like "chucky" from the kids show "rugrats" Allergic to everything, scared, a mama's boy. he lifts his arms up to me if there is any noise or an unknown person...hes such a baby..... he's my perfect pal and gorgeous, i'm toally in love and wouldn't change his personality, he is cheeky and playful not a "sickly" dog. I feel like I've given him my genetics, which is crazy I know, but he's as sick as I am, its crazy! And he hasn't been in any accidents either, no head bangs....nothing else I can think of to cause any of this....i never tell him off so no spanking or yelling, he doesn't know the word "no" lol, well, he's good, and the little things that are bad I don't consider naughty, they're cute lol.....and no, he's not spoilt, well, maybe a little hehe 
Back Road BearsI feel like I've given him my genetics, which is crazy I know, but he's as sick as I am, its crazy!
You have no idea how many times I've had this exact same thought!!! And BOTH of my dogs have health issues and they came from separate breeders on separate sides of the US!! So it MUST be me!!!
The eye rolling started AFTER the steroid, right? Could it be that? Or the combo of that and the antihistamine? You'd think the vet would know that but they are great at overlooking things I've found. (We've been to 4 different vets in 4 years before finding the hospital we took Tucker to this week. Vets where we live are country-bumpkins, laid back and slack in their attentiveness. Drives me crazy! Have you tried giving the steroid in the am and antihistamine at night (becaue that's more apt to make him sleepy) and seeing if giving them at separate times makes a dif?
If not the steroid or drug interaction I have no idea what to suggest. A hypo? I doubt it but you could test his blood. Just know that dogs blood sugar ranges are different than ours. I don't know what would be considered 'low' for a dog. Doesn't explain the sounds and odors as a possible trigger though.
Don't you hate not being able to figure out what's wrong? I hope the vet has some ideas for you on Monday. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Canna Bear PaintThe eye rolling is called nystagmus. The staggering, confusion, eye rolling, are all related to each other... believe me, it's impossible to see anything or walk a straight line when your eyes are rolling around in your head uncontrollably. I speak from experience, as I get nystagmus with a vertigo attack.
Anyway... could be something fairly simple like an ear infection throwing off his inner ear / equilibrium. Also could be beginning stages of something more serious, like epilepsy or a vestibular disorder. But as the pup suffers from bad allergies to begin with, I'd have the vet check for an ear infection first.
Good luck!
Kelly
Hi Sarah ,
I really hope Pippin will be ok 
Poor little boy - please give him a Papillon-appreciater huggy from me !
The only observation I can offer is that my tiny chihuahua has "fits" , but they don't appear like this . When she has one she gets very still
and trembly ; her legs at awkward angles (like being on a ship's deck !) and her eyes go glazed and staring (not rolling)She dribbles a little too ,
and is quite shaky when she comes out of it - after a nap she's right as rain 
I'll be wishing very hard for the vets to come up with a proper diagnosis soon !
Gentle Hugs ,
Ruth :hug: :hug: :hug:
Jellybelly BearsDaphne, its incredible isn't it!!! I was hoping you'd answer, I thought maybe you'd have had some experience with your troubled youngsters in this area and be able to pin point it, they had mentioned on the Papillon site about low blood sugar in small breeds, and because i'd taken him on a walk, you know how your sugar drops a couple of hours after? I wonder if you can prick a doggies paw 
but it doesn't add up because the fresh air helps him, not sugar in his mouth.
no, not med related as far as the steroid or antihistamine, he's been on them for ages....but maybe the big shot of whatever he gave him to settle the infection at the vet? surely thats washed out of his system by now...the eyedrops were the other new thing and I stopped them...looked that up and it seems harmless to. but to my boy? Nothing is harmless!!
yeah, been to 2 vets in the same surgery, one is nutters, and goes over a million possibilities as to what could be wrong, with no answers but a million expensive things to try, which i have, food, shampoos, pills, this that, the other....... money...i'm not made of it, and gosh, don't the dollar signs flash in your head each time somthing new pops up....sigh......this vet seems really good and i make sure i am booked in with him each time. We take spike to him too, he did his operations and things and can pinpoint things pretty well....but the attacks are so short....and he looks fine when they are over, bright eyed....plus putting on the best show for the vet, he even managed to open his swollen eye for him lol
Kelly, oh no, you get that, you poor thing :hug: now i know the names i'll look them up, thanks, its so hard to explain, but thats exactly what is going on....
And...ear infection never occured to me but sort of fits.....he's been wanting to lay on the floor a lot too, which is unusual,bit off colour.....maybe the eye led to the ear, or they were both infected on the walk. gosh, i'm never taking him on a walk again!!
Ruth, thank you....I wouldn't swap him for the world, thats why it breaks my heart so much.....and all these bad thoughts are going through my mind, epilepsy, brain tumour....gosh, how do you mums with human children cope, arghhh have you found out what causes your dogs fits? is it low blood sugar? thats common in small dogs...just wish they could tell us whats hurting them!
Laurie Lou BearsMy dad had a papillon and he used to suffer from fits but when he used to have them he would go into a trance and just stare and then after a little while he would be fine.It is hard when our pets are ill but harder when you don't know what is wrong with them.Sometimes you need to watch them for a while just to see if you can find anything that can give you a hint to why it is happening.Vets are expensive but they are ok if they can get to the bottom of it and it can help the vet if you can find out if these turns happen at any particular time or if you can relate them to something.Pippin is a handsome boy and I hope you can get to the bottom of it.
Laurie :hug:
Past Time BearsPippin is sooooo cute. I surely hope you get his disorders pinpointed and can treat them successfully. :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Poor little Pip! You must be worried out of your mind :hug:
So sorry to hear about Pippin, Sarah - it is such a worry for you not knowing what is wrong.
I really hope that the vet can help Pippin and get it sorted.
Warmest hugs too you and Pippin
Carolyn
:hug: :hug:
My mom's smallest Pom use to have fits like that.. but nothing helped.. They would trigger when he got really excited though. The vet said he might grow out of them and he seemed to.. he still has one every once in a blue moon. Poor Pip, :hug: :hug: I hope they can find something simple that could be wrong. Sending you a big hug! :hug: :hug: :hug:
Hugs,
Melanie
Dear Sarah,
I am sorry to hear that Pipin started having these fits after going outside. It does seem weird that fresh air makes him feel better. My friend who used to show Papillon's had one that did have fits but they didn't appear as Pipin's does. He would sneeze 3 or 4 times and them run around in a circle for about 2 minutes. Then he would just stop. The vet never could figure out what caused them but I hope that is not the case for Pipin.
Sending lots of hugs to you and Pipin. :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Hugs,
Lots of big squishy hugs to little Pippin Sarah. What a worry for you. Let's hope the Vet can sort it out soon for him. :hug:
Pippin is adorable! I sure hope your vet can figure out what is going on! Could it be he is hyper sensitive to certain smells that cause a strange allergic reaction? Shampooing the carpet could leave a residue chemical smell that you wouldn't smell but a dog possibly could. And outside he could smell fertilizers, pesticides that might cause problems. Poor little guy! I do hope you can get an answer to what ails him!
Beth
JigpawsPoor Pippin I hope the vet manages to figure out what's wrong with him soon so he can get him some help. It must be such a worry for you.
Lots of beary hugs for you and your GORGEOUS little Pippin :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Hugs
Janice
DoodlebearsOh Sarah, you must be so worried about Pippin, I know he's like your baby. I'm so sorry that he is unwell. I hope the vet manages to sort out his problems very soon.
Big hugs to both of you Sarah.
Hugs, Jane. :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Hi again Sarah ,
No , we never found out what causes Delphi's fits 
she had a barrage of blood tests (they had to shave a huge area under her neck and still couldn't get much blood -
she's so teeny - 
) but she's not diabetic / no kidney problems etc . We recently raised the subject again , but ......
ok we've got a celebrity vet (vets in practice ex) he's mega-cute , but he doesn't approve of little dogs , or Pedigrees , and I'm afraid we got a lecture
about hybrid vigour / designer dogs = very , very bad blah blahblah !! I felt like I was in the dog house for owning a Papillon and a 3lb chihuahua !!
Let's just say I won't bother having a hair-do , or putting lipstick on to speak to Dr.Dishy ; celebrity or not 
I realise I am so lucky to have (relatively) healthy little dogs - as the Chi's life quality is in no way affected , and my Pap is a lucky girl !
Many Huggies to you both , Ruth 
Jellybelly BearsThanks so much everyone for your support, gosh I've gotten so much info from you all I'm so glad I wrote. I'm still waiting on the dog question place from 3 nights ago! Apparently"22 dog experts were waiting to help" you ask your question, and only pay when you get your answer if you like the answer....so, waiting waiting, receiving emails with reminders that if I pay on good faith I may receive an answer quicker.....you know at midnight, when you're in a panic these places seem so good, I wonder how many people would pay the $50 or whatever to get emergency help and get jipped :o(
Well, its been two nights and one day and he has been all clear....The last few attacks weren't as severe, but I don't know if its coz I knew the symptoms and got him into the fresh air quickly so it didn't get extreme, or maybe because I was in more control and calm (not in an "omg he's going to die" panic!) so he could control it better too and wasn't so scared 
the fresh air is still a mystery, but its chilly outside, so maybe the snap of chill air on his face perks him right up...Its definitely nystagmus that Kelly was talking about, I went and saw a video, that's what my puppy's eyes were doing gosh, the Internet is wonderful for finding stuff! So, I'll see what the vet says tomorrow, I'm so worried about running all those tests like you did with your puppy Ruth, Pippin is such a sook, and I'm worse lol, I hope to just do the elimination game first...am wondering if it is chemical sensitivity, Beth, it never occurred to me that people put fertilizer and poison on grass....his eyes inflamed, so, that fits..too....and the shampoo...we'll have to wait for the next time we bring that out and see if he reacts again. Trial and error 
It certainly is reassuring to know that other dogs go through the same sort of thing....its just so scary! I'm glad we aren't the only ones.
Thanks everyone :hug: :hug: :hug:
And Pippin says thank you too, 'for calming my nutty mummy' told ya he was cheeky 
Jellybelly Bearsok we've got a celebrity vet (vets in practice ex) he's mega-cute , but he doesn't approve of little dogs , or Pedigrees , and I'm afraid we got a lecture
about hybrid vigour / designer dogs = very , very bad blah blahblah !! I felt like I was in the dog house for owning a Papillon and a 3lb chihuahua !!
Let's just say I won't bother having a hair-do , or putting lipstick on to speak to Dr.Dishy ; celebrity or notI realise I am so lucky to have (relatively) healthy little dogs - as the Chi's life quality is in no way affected , and my Pap is a lucky girl !
Many Huggies to you both , Ruth
oh boy, lol, sounds like an a** hehe Oh well, looks ain't everything, or celebrity.....hmmmmm. Small dogs ROCK!!!!!!! nothing against large dogs ether, or medium sized dogs LOL, shouldn't he love all creatures great and small? and anyway, what can you do? follow his advice and do a magical presto chango and turn your pap into a dalmation? silly man. I have to google Dr Dishy thats a new one for "greys anatomy" lol Just add a "Mac" 
XX
Chaska, MinnesotaThere is a lot of good advice given. I can only add one thing, has the filter for your air conditioner been changed recently? I have allergies and when I don't change it regularly, I get itchy eyes and repertory problems. I use filters that are made for allergy sufferers.
Your mom vacuuming may have stirred up dirt and stuff that triggered an allergy attack. That happens to me all the time. Just dusting my desk at work, triggers allergies for me.
My cat has food allergies. He is on a special diet. He was fine for about a year. Than all of a sudden, he is itching all the time. It took the vet about a year to figure out he has food allergies. Now he is fine, but I have to watch very closely that he does not get into any food other than what is prescribed for him. So, you may want to rule that out too.
Jellybelly BearsMichelle thanks, yes, we have the ducted heating on a lot, which we've thought of and had ruled out, but it is the end of winter so its due for a clean....another thing to add to the list lol He's going to have to go on a strict diet too, which is soo hard!!! I've tried, again and again....but this is pretty obvious now, I must do it..... thanks again :hug:
Sophie Z'OursAh, Sarah, i am glad there are so many people here to send you great ideas and advices.
I never had a dog myself so cannot be very helpful.
Your puppy is absolutely adorable and I do not see why should should have chosen another dog. Usualy, the strongest dogs are crosses between different breeds, but that is not a reason to restrict your choice!!!!
Just follow your heart...
Lots of hugs to Pippin and to you. :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Beary hugs,
Sophie.
So what does that vet have against small dogs? That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Big dogs aren't for everyone. Not everyone can handle a big dog or have the room for one. I happen to think Papillons are wonderful. They are so cute and very smart. I myself have big dogs-one is a giant dog a Leonberger, the other is a mutt about half the size of the Leonberger but still big at about 68lbs. But I certainly see great advantages to small dogs. For one (actually two)they generally live longer and they aren't as expensive to feed! To each their own I say- that is why there are so many different breeds of dog!
I won't go into hybrid vigour except to say that I have seen plenty of mutts that are just as sickly and or wacky as purebred dogs!
I have to say that is a gorgous pic of Pippin!!!! He is one marvelously handsome dog!
Glad he hasn't had any more episodes! Hang in there!!!
Beth
Bumpkin Bearspoor little cutie pie, I do hope that the vet can help suggest something else that can be cleared up like an ear infection.... thinking of Pip and his really not nutty mummy :)
BIG BIG Hugs, Cath x
Jellybelly BearsEllen, I thought you'd have some advice, thanks so much, you've helped a lot , but I'm so sorry you've been through all this stuff with your dogs 
yeah, vet not really any help, got the one who diagnoses with a million possiblilties, sigh.....I'm just going to have to wait and see, he's been fine again today, so, I don't want to go through all those tests if its going to clear up now....I'll try taking him for a walk tomorrow, see how he goes and play the elimination game.
I think it could very well be the steroids Ellen, his dose was increased to half a tablet for three days and the second day was when this all occured, plus the steroid injection the vet gave him....eeek...he's never reacted to the tablets before, (besides weight gain ) But maybe the injection on top of the tablet increase was just too much for his little body...or, I'm still wondering whether it was the eye drops.....I dunno!! Its too hard. all I can do is wait and see and hope its just a one off, well three and two little offs, and it will go away!!
I just wish his itchies would clear and he wouldn't have to take the steroid at all....but...no way around it for now...when I cut it out, even if I keep him on the antihistamine his skin and eyes and mouth itch badly, and he ends up with raw red skin (the bullae skin condition) arghh, what to do what to do...
Sophie, Beth and Catherine, thank you :hug:
he's sleeping on my bed with me as I type this, oblivious to the problem I'm sure 
Sarah I'm a bit behind on reading posts... but wanted to send HUGE hugs to you and Pippin!! He's so lucky to have such a wonderful momma!!
