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Kingfisher Farm Teddies and Folk Arthttp://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/news/news … -tree.html
I hope to never offend anyone on TT. I am above all, an animal lover, vegetarian, and looking for ways to make our earth a kinder place. I think that people and animals are all important. Born or unborn, living free or wild. I hope no one sees my politcal affiliation as a reason to assume anything about me. And I hope no one attacks another member of this board. I did feel I was attacked today.
I felt like this filly did, trapped. So I left, then I thought, well that is wimpy. I unwittingly stuck my neck out there, got stuck. Thanks to all who tried to keep things headed in a more neutral place. :hug:
Pam
PS please visit my blog. I do post about my animal activism there. All my pets are rescues, except for my livestock.
Mostly we embrace our cultural differences so well here on TT ... I like that. I also enjoy the fact that TT unites us globally and I think that's something to celebrate. We've all had an opportunity to establish some great friendships through TT, which in turn, have offered us an insight into a world wider and more diverse than the view from our own tiny windows. We are asked by TT to maintain respect for one another and within that respect, have been generously provided with the facility to share so much more than simply bear art. I like that too. :rose:
I do hope that poor filly managed to extract herself! What a picture! 
FenBeary FolkPam
What a great piccie, one can only assume a bag of sugar lumps (is that what horses like) was in the bottom of the tree................it was great to read that the horse's escaped with only a few very minor scratches 
As for all the other bit, I am sorry that you feel attacked, I too have stuck my neck out in the past and had my head bitten off, so from one headless chick-a-dee to another............ :hug:
Paula, I am in total agreement with you, everyone is entitled to an opinion and the freedom to express that, its just very sad that a member has felt the need to issue an apology and bow out of TT, especially as in my opinion, they were one of the nice guys on here 
for Dilu
TuckerbearsSorry but seeing that photo is not a way to start my day. That is disgusting! :mad:
It is also very sad to see that Dilu left. I know how she feels as I almost left myself a while back. I hope that this forum goes back to what we are here for, bears and creativity. Politics , religion, and personal beliefs are just better off being personal. We have freedom of speech yes, but lets get back to the core of this forum so we do not lose any one else! :pray:
Waggle BearsMostly we embrace our cultural differences so well here on TT ... I like that. I also enjoy the fact that TT unites us globally and I think that's something to celebrate. We've all had an opportunity to establish some great friendships through TT, which in turn, have offered us an insight into a world wider and more diverse than the view from our own tiny windows. We are asked by TT to maintain respect for one another and within that respect, have been generously provided with the facility to share so much more than simply bear art. I like that too.
Ditto, Paula. Very well said.
Kingfisher Farm Teddies and Folk ArtSheryl, the filly was rescued, as I have been with the kindness shown to me by fellow TT'ers. I was stunned to find some TTers rush to judgement about my beliefs on other issues not mentioned in my post. It was very thinly disguised. Anywho, I wont be posting anymore politcal comments.
I have some teddies to make and some critters to stuff. And some rowdy dogs to walk. The horses have been fed, and since the sun is shining I think a ride this afternoon would do my soul good.
The point here is tolerance and kindness makes the world a better place! As do teddy bears....
Have a great day! Pam
Little Bear GuyHmmm I didn't find it disgusting I found it very sad and glad that the horse came out alright
Not to get off topic again but this forum discusses lots of topics not just Teddy Bears and creativity. People post so much about their personal lives on TT , they feel that they can because we are one big family. We all support one another and love one another (ok maybe not right at this moment, but we do non the less). I do find it sad that Dilu left the forum, I am certain that if people talk to her (and I know they will ) that she will rejoin the group and we will all welcome her back with open arms (cause that's what this loving group of people does).
Pam I'm sorry that you felt you were attacked and I'm glad that you came back to the forum, I certainly don't think that people mean to hurt other people's feelings on purpose, but as Kelly Zimmerman said in another post it is so easy via email or posting to misinterpret what the other person is saying. There is no way to tell what the emotion of the other person is or how to take the tone of the message.
Not trying to start anything, but life is way to short and I don't want to spend a minute of it fighting. I want to be creating and talking with great people and making new friends. It takes so much energy to be angry then it does to be happy , takes a lot more muscles to frown then it does to be happy .
I found this poem on the internet and thought it does kind of fit in with TT and the people.
Ode To A Chatroom
by Marie Lehmkuhl
One day I decided to get on the net,
I thought a chat room would be my best bet.
I saw names and words come up from where
I knew not.
I soon took a chance and had a nice thought,
Could I do this, it looked really neat.
I saw names on the screen that started with sweet,
sweet smiles, Jo, and Smokey were there too,
And then I saw it, "Oh, yes, we're talking to you,
come on in and chat for awhile. "
And when I did I started to smile.
I saw Chuckie and Robbie and soon I was friends
with quite a few people by the days end.
And after awhile they called me their friend.
Sometimes I come in and my friends are not there,
But I'll go back again because I know that they care.
Some live in the states and some do not,
But they always know when I need to talk.
I am so glad I took the leap and went into the
chat room where friends are so neat.
Big hugs to all :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Shane
Pam, I was all about empathy for you yesterday. :hug: Been there, felt that, myself. So have many others here at TT, and not just advisors or particularly outspoken members, but people who, because of timing or topic, just found themselves having somehow "stepped in it" when "stepping in it" wasn't remotely their intent when posting!!
It was abundantly clear to me, yesterday, that whether people agreed with your content or not, you were simply trying to join the with the TT community and share in the spirit of the conversation, and share your own hope and joy. Unfortunately, the topic of conversation itself proved too challenging for this forum to handle. Many other topics have proved the same; "eyelids" being a particularly unexpected one, as Chrissi already mentioned (I'm still laughing about that one, Chrissi. lol...) There's no need to single out yesterday's circumstance in describing the ubiquitous forum phenomenon of "topics too hot to handle." There have been hot topics here many times before; hot topics emerge on almost every forum I've ever visited; and hot topics will show up again, here, and elsewhere.
Pam... None of that is about you. What happened yesterday is not your fault. It appears to be human nature that when buttons get pushed in cyberspace, people unravel -- on all sides. All of which leaves me hoping that, as a species, we'll evolve.
Quicker. :)
Similarly, it's abundantly clear to me, today, Pam, that you are simply trying to explain you meant no harm or offense with your comments, with an attached visual to really drive home the point that you felt "trapped." I see you and I get it and I'm sorry you felt that way.
You seem gracious and humble. And you're really, really brave. I know you don't post here much and went out on a limb yesterday, so it must have felt particularly yucky to see things get so tense. There is the instinct, in those moments, to flee and hide, I know. Kudos to you for not rushing to delete your comments, and especially, for the character that led you to start this particular thread.
Nobody is the bad guy here, people. We're all just doing our best, and every last one of us makes mistakes. Yesterday, mistakes were made, and I can point to a huge number of people who participated in that thread, myself included, who, in hindsight, were guilty of making them -- even if inadvertently and innocently. No one person, opinion, or comment purshed that thread to closure. It was the community as a whole -- its dynamic -- and its inability to discuss differing opinions with respect, that dictated that outcome. Which, to my mind, is really, really sad, because really good people on every side of the circumstance were injured, angered, or scared off in the process.
Anyway... I appreciate your attempts at mending, Pam, with such a large global community. You're one brave chica, and even though I hardly know you at all, you've earned my solid respect.
Kingfisher Farm Teddies and Folk ArtThank you Shelli, the respect is mutual! I hope Dilu comes back, and we can all just take a deep breath and relax.
Shane that's a cute poem.
Sue, you are right!! I bet that filly thought there was something to eat in there!!
Lisa that is hilarious. A beer with my fellow teddy talkers sounds lovely!
Some of the things alluded to in the post, flaming people on Facebook or other boards, I certainly would not participate in that. These generalities that were put in posts, labeling people and then embellishing.....not being direct.....it was a waste of everyone's time.
Thanks everyone for your kind replies. Pam
Kingfisher Farm Teddies and Folk ArtPaula, there is a link at the top of the photo that explains her situation and subsequent rescue. I too love the world coming together here at TT! Pam
a teddy bear united nations........
Shelli: Many other topics have proved the same; "eyelids" being a particularly unexpected one,
Eyelids??????? Did you really say eyelids???? 
Haha! 
Yes, "eyelids" was one of the topics that ended up being closed here, maybe even deleted -- I can't remember the specifics. Chrissi reminded me of this yesterday in her posts.
It's not the subject matter that causes trouble on forums, ever. It's the absolute inability of people to talk respectfully when opinions differ. It's the fact that it's just too hard for people to agree to disagree.
That's why placing rules around what "should" and "should not" be discussed on forums -- beyond the obvious, I mean; we can't talk about child pornography, for example! -- is foolish. Hot topics emerge from every corner. It's not about controversial subject matter; it's about people, behaving controversially.
TT could become a forum only and entirely about teddy bears. But... Would anyone visit? The General Discussion area is the clear leader in terms of posts and popularity. If we eliminate the "chat room" aspect here, wouldn't we lose 80% of what makes this place great? And, too, let me just point out: It's not called the "General AGREEMENT" area. And there's a reason for that.
Let's not rehash the eyelid thread and the reasons it ended up being closed, though. K? If you don't remember it or know what we're talking about... good. You got off easy. lol...
It's always so easy to blame one person, one post, one comment when threads go south. And when people cause offense -- purposefully or accidentally -- it's so easy for them to take ALL the blame on themselves. Interesetingly, some people here seem to think these problems are purely a TT phenomenon, and/or that they are the fault of a flaccid and ineffective management team. WRONG! This stuff happens on EVERY forum, and the whole phenomenon has been written about and studied extensively. The real truth is that it's the COMBINATION of people, posts, and comments, at a particular point in space and time -- and not a problem with subject matter, Teddy Talk, or the people who run it -- that push these things to closure (or deletion)... and along the way, push people into being their worst, yuckiest selves.
I wish the internet allowed more context -- that posts came with visual aides -- because honestly, that would prevent about 98% of all hard feelings. I swear. If Dilu hadn't jumped to the conclusion that Paula, Kelly, myself, and "all the HAs" here at TT were somehow addressing HER when we described our personal fear of discussing politics and religion -- as just one example -- she'd still be here, happy, today. If she could step outside her feeling of betrayal and offense and remember that, largely out of respect for her and at her urging, we set up a lovely "Bearhugs" forum -- which, let's be honest, is basically a prayer room (a forum that doesn't just allow, but almost encourages, religion on the board) -- she'd feel more accompanied than abandoned. If she recalled something that, as an Advisor, she knows so well -- that sometimes, people aren't responding to posts that precede their own, but are writing stand-alone comments about nothing but themselves -- she'd never have posted a goodbye note here. But so these things go, when context is missing, and conjecture and reactivity take hold.
Pfffft. That's how I feel about this crap, on days like today. So much drama, and all of it, totally unnecessary. At every step, good people who meant well were just trying to be a part of something, and mistakes were made, and then kablam -- the whole things implodes, scattering human shrapnel in its wake. And, seriously, really, and truthfully -- nobody is actually the bad guy. there is no one bad guy. There are bad INTERACTIONS.
In truth, if I'd really been paying attention and had carefully read the posts that preceded my own instead of talking off the top of my head, directly replying to Paula, I could have probably intuited that if I wrote about "never discussing religion" following a post about religion, someone might think that what I was saying -- even though I wasn't remotely saying it! -- was that people shouldn't discuss God on this forum. Something which, for the record, goes against every stance I've ever taken here, publicly or privately. I LOATHE the word "should." We'd all be better off it it were stricken from the English language.
But for crying out loud! Just how much is every person supposed to contort into a pretzel, in order to predict, forecast, and accommodate what an entire WORLD of other people MIGHT interpret? It's a kind of crazy making, I swear it. Can you feel my exasperation, today? And besides... Just how committed to "never discussing politics and religion" could I have possibly been, when I blathered rapturously about hope regarding our new president?
On forums, people say things. They shoot the s**t. They feel they're gabbing, surrounded by friends. It's a false environment, in truth.
Still, they don't post to forums thinking their every word will be microscopically examined and then embellished and enhanced and even misinterpreted or contorted, after which their words and person are associated with happenings on FaceBook or MySpace or eBay or the planet Mars, none of which have to do with ANYTHING being written about. (sigh)
We are all of us who participate, when these thing become disaster zones, guilty in one way or another of somehow contributing to the ATMOSPHERE that created the explosion that began from one tiny spark, that was probably inadvertently set off by someone who had no idea they were doing so. So I'm just absolutely determined not to paint any one person as the wrong doer here; I think we all could have done better. But once it's all fiery and yuck, all that can be done is to retract, restate, clarify, apologize. Which Pam has so expertly and sweetly done; you're an inspiration, Pam.
When that's not good enough, though -- when people insist on embracing indignation instead of contrite and sincere apology -- what they're choosing is so unnecessary, and such a waste! In those emotional moments, they forget that most people never mean to offend or anger with their comments. They forget who those people really ARE. What their character is made of. How real friendships had been formed, that in an instant, will be lost. It's just absolutely, positively, stupid, if you ask me.
I tell ya... today, I feel like saying, "Honestly. Why can't we all get along? And until we can, would you people just chill the f**k out?!?"
And for Pam: Thanks for the props. 
So much drama, and all of it, totally unnecessary
Amen to that. 
Waggle BearsFirst off, it is not my intention to upset anyone by my post. And this is my third start trying to say nothing that people would read differently that I intend.
I read the first couple pages of comments on the topic this refers to and then just thought it best not to comment or read any further. I love everyone here and I'm grateful for the friends I've made, the support given to me, the the tips and techniques shared by very generous artists, and the diversity and world-wide locations of the group. I think all those things help us learn and grow.
I don't know what things were said that hurt Dilu's and Pam's feelings but I always hate to see someone feeling attacked or feeling shut out because they believe differently than we do. Everyone can choose their friends on the basis of color, religion, political ideaology, many other things, but those seem much less important that the character of the person.
Think back to before that post...about how much you loved the person's bears, thought they were kind for offering ideas and support, someone you'd really like to be friends with if you lived nearer to each other. We can't be all in-person friends because we are from so many different places, but TT offers us the opportunity to know each other almost as if distance doesn't separate us. Wd learn new things, share sadness and excitement just as we would with in-person friends.
I love TT and I'm grateful for all of you.
We love you too, Marlys. And would continue to do so, even if one day, you acted like an insensitive horse's ass.
Mwaa! 
FenBeary FolkShelli :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: will you still love me if I am horse's ass with a foot sticking out
I love this place, why cos its REAL, open and honest, it may get hot sometimes, it happens
Now for my religious bit.................TO ERR IS HUMAN, FORGIVE DIVINE
so :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: have a great weekend everyone
Shelli :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: will you still love me if I am horse's ass with a foot sticking out :love:
Yes, because I know who you are. And if you disappoint me, I know how to ask why you did. Ask you... ask myself. Because maybe -- just maybe -- the disapointment isn't yours to own.
On a lighter note.... The visual you present here is a real attention grabber. Anyone care to work this up, in mohair??
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
Ellen, I don't remember a single specific of what drove you off all those months ago, but I do recall you felt -- and probably were -- really, really unseen. That hurts, and you did what was necessary to take care of you. No fault in that. In fact, bravery must be in the air today, because to say what you just said, in the atmosphere of this particular thread, took enormous bravery on your part. You're no coward.
I'm really glad to see you posting here, and I, for one, welcome you back with arms flung wide open.
FenBeary FolkEllen did anyone ever tell you YOU ARE A SWEETHEART lovely post
:hug: :hug: :hug: I am glad you are back, missed ya
We (Ellen & I) started a bit on the wrong foot (MY FOOT by the way) way back when........................but we both proove that misunderstandings can be unravelled and sorted, if all parties take a step back and try to understand each other.
Shelli
Yes, because I know who you are. And if you disappoint me, I know how to ask why you did. Ask you... ask myself. Because maybe -- just maybe -- the disapointment isn't yours to own.
Very very profound, love it :hug:
Now where is my sketch pad --horse--foot--ass :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: visually diiiisturbing :crackup:
FenBeary FolkLOL LOL LOL we all a postin at the same time :crackup:
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: perfect tonic for a long week at work
Ellen was thinking of Alpaca myself with ultrasuede for the foot
Tami Eveslage Original Teddy Bears:hug: :hug: Yay for Ellen coming back!!! 
I bumped into her yesterday on Den of Angels 9a BJD forum)
:hug: :hug: for Pam
Kingfisher Farm Teddies and Folk ArtWelcome back Ellen!! Thanks Tami!! And everybody, gee i gotta get work done!!Pam
Waggle BearsWe love you too, Marlys. And would continue to do so, even if one day, you acted like an insensitive horse's ass.
Mwaa!
Thanks, Shelli, and no doubt I might do that some day but Ill try hard not to.
Ellen, I do remember the incident and how awful you felt. Years ago, I was deleted from a Scottie forum for something I said that offended the forum owner. I felt awful because I would never intentionally hurt anyone. It's understandable for one to pull back when hurt but I'm so glad you are back. When we lose one of us for hurt feelings, we all lose a little bit.
FenBeary FolkEllen, We certainly are on the right foot now :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
DID I HEAR YOU SAY BJD'ssssss
Wowee, saw some of those, they are fab
and Pam I hope feel better :hug: :hug:
The point of view of one Aussie.
In the interests of trying to unite the world with compassion and understanding, I found the topic that Lisa started on the election of your New American President really interesting. From the perspective of someone from another country so far away, I was getting a personal glimpse of what the election meant directly from my American friends, not just a glorified report in a newspaper. I found the discussion about your American political history really interesting and helped me to understand your system a little better. I also heard opinions about what the election of different candidates would mean to different people, both in positive effects on their lives and negative effects on their lives. All of those opinions I never hear about in our newspapers and so I felt I was getting a far more truthful view than I would have otherwise.
Teddy Talkers are bright, intelligent, interesting people. And because of that they are going to have very different views on this issue, and every view is valid. If we all felt the same we would be a world of zombies. The reason I like to hear the views on this type of issue from Teddy Talkers is that I believe what they say in how it is affecting them. It is like talking to a friend and you are not getting a "sanitised" view. I would be very disappointed if we still didn't have the option of discussing sometimes controversial issues in just one area of our forum. I don't want to have to join a zillion different forums just to get a better view on every subject. I want to hear the views of my friends, whether I agree with them or not.
I realise now that the American Presidential election had enormous personal ramifications for lots of my TT friends. Without this discussion, I would never had known the depths of these ramifications or the joy of others in the result. That is why Teddy Talk is a wonderful venue to us "international's" to try and understand the highs and the lows of different events in different countries.
The beauty of TT is that it is broken into different categories. If you just want to visit specifically for Teddy Bears, you can just go to those sections. If you are after a broader prospective from people you like and trust on a wide selection of issues, you make sure you visit the General section. I really hope I can continue to read everyones point of view on a wide variety of subjects in the General section. There will always be misunderstandings of what is written, that is life. What we need to do when we read something that hurts or offends us is discuss it with the person who posted to clarify the "actual" meaning. That should always be the first step in resolving an issue. Go direct to the person and ask for a clarification. Sometimes they may have meant something entirely different, just like someone trying to express themselves in a different language to their own, translations do go wrong. Interpretations are sometimes wrong. Clarification of a certain point at the very time it is published, can sometimes save a lot of heartache. To unite this world, we need to be open to everyones opinions from every walk of life.
