Banner Sponsors
For artists and collectors sponsored by Intercal...your mohair supplier and Johnna's Mohair Store
Newcastle, OntarioHi there,
I have no illusions about coyotes - I have a very healthy respect for any wild animal, small or large. I guess I'm just trying to put everything I've learned about them into perspective. I'm no daredevil, believe me!
One single rogue black bear managed to kill local three teenage boys who were fishing, when we were up north AND almost got a police officer who was in a group, tracking him - he was saved because he was alerted by his police dog, who saw him at the very last moment. The bear was shot and was shown to have a brain tumor.
As I said, I will carry my bear bells and have already loaded a tin can with pennies for my pocket, and I don't plan to walk alone or at night, either. I would love to see one up close, but definitely from the safety of my house 
hugs,
Brenda
PennsylvaniaSee... I'm more comfortable around black bears than coyotes.
(Don't know much first-hand about grizzly bears. Never met one. I have met black bears more than once.)
For the most part, black bears live by the implicit agreement, "You stay over there and mind your own business and I'll stay over here and mind my own business." If you come upon one in the woods you can virtually always walk a wide circle around him and he'll leave you alone. The exception being when a mother is protecting her cubs.
Stories of black bears attacking people are rare, especially when the people were not molesting the bears or their cubs.
The brain tumor explains things.
If you are in the woods in an area you know well, you should not have a thing to worry about with bears. Carrying a bell or a rattle is certainly an okay idea but not 100% needed. When you are in your own neck of the woods, you should know about where the bears are and they should know where you are. Through the above-mentioned mutual arrangement, you should never have a problem.
Now, I have also met coyotes in about a half dozen locations. Most of them were at my current home. That is a suburban area. As I said, it's near an airport where passenger jets land.
The two times I met a coyote while walking in the woods, we both stopped, he looked at me and I looked at him. After about a minute, he high tailed it into the brush and that's the last I saw of him. I wasn't afraid of him. Matter of fact, I thought it was cool. Unless they are in packs, you probably have nothing to fear from a coyote.
Now the times I saw them in the suburbs it was a different story. One time I saw one while driving in the car. He came right up to the car! No fear at all! And I have had them come right into my yard as if there was not a care in the world. I stood there in the window and watched. He knew I was there. He never even flinched.
As I said, I don't mind having coyotes around, even in the suburbs. They keep the rats, the mice and the rabbits in check. Keeping the rodents in check keeps down the possibility of spreading disease. Of course, I don't want them getting into my house, either. It is cool to sit up late on a warm night and hear them yipping and howling in the distance.
But it does worry me when coyotes get too acclimated to being around humans. Once they lose their fear of people, that's when they become dangerous. If a lone coyote attacked an adult, you could probably fend it off. Just kick him in the gonads and keep hitting until he gets the idea. However, a coyote that's dumb enough to attack a human probably rabies or some other nasty disease. These are the things that bother me about coyotes the most.
It's something I virtually never worry about with bears.
Brenda, you could move to Oz, we only have the odd wallaby hanging around & we need more bearmakers here... 
Seriously, I hope you find a solution, it's sounds pretty scary to me, especially for your pets,
stay safe :hug:
desertmountainbearWe have lots of coyotes out here. I have seen them on my day and night time walks with my dogs. They have never approached me. They will jump a high fence to steal your small animals. I don't think that it will be a regular occurence, it is not out here. If you are worried, don't leave your pets wander alone. I know of nothing that will deter them.
Joanne
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Now the times I saw them in the suburbs it was a different story. One time I saw one while driving in the car. He came right up to the car! No fear at all! And I have had them come right into my yard as if there was not a care in the world. I stood there in the window and watched. He knew I was there. He never even flinched.
But it does worry me when coyotes get too acclimated to being around humans. Once they lose their fear of people, that's when they become dangerous.They will jump a high fence to steal your small animals. I don't think that it will be a regular occurrence, it is not out here. If you are worried, don't leave your pets wander alone. I know of nothing that will deter them.
Anne & family never allow their 3 dogs out alone. With the size of their lot, I'm not sure that would deter an attack from the sky however. On Monday 2 large hawks were sitting 20' up in the empty lot's cottonwood trees, next to their stucco walls, while we walked right under them. Had we been on the other side of the back yard and one of the Maltese or the Doxie walking there instead, I'm not sure the Flying Opportunist wouldn't have made a Grab 'n Go....
When I said previously about a coyote/wolf mix being seen, up close and personal, it was about a year ago, when our Dau Anne had pulled into her driveway, through one set of gates but not into the garage or walked through the second gates into the inner courtyard. She was making phone calls and gathering her stuff up before going into the house, not paying much attention to outside the car when she realized that during that 10 mins the pack had come inside the front yard gates and had surrounded the car. Not a sound. Just stood there watching here. It was an eye-to-eye stand-off for another 10 mins before they suddenly left.
What scares her is that several of the homes along her street are not enclosed and they have small children, and the individual animals and pack tend to take shortcuts through those yards. I saw a very elderly lady walking with a walker along the road several mornings. She was so unstable that it wouldn't take much more than hitting a stone with one of the wheels to knock her over. I can only imagine what she'd do if she saw if even a single coyote came loping along the road alongside her....
Anne has spoken to her middle-aged 'kids' but they were rather cavalier about it: they are away at work during the daytime and didn't feel that the coyotes really run along the roads during the day. I pray that that tiny little old lady never is in that situation; it's too bad when adults close their eyes to reality.
I think, as we all relate our personal experiences with these animals, we don't have any answers to the original question about keeping them away.
The human hair and urine or ureic acid aren't effective and any small effectiveness they have against small animals bothering your garden - they need to be renewed every few days.
In short, there is no really good method for keeping them out of what has been wilderness until mankind decided to move in.
We have a short history, compared to the eons of wildlife habitation.
Unless you choose to live behind armed, 12' walls, one needs to adapt to their world.
Miss Dorothy's TeddyFolkWe have coyotes in our area I hear and see them often. My Aussie shepard hates them and barks long and loud.
I sometimes walk my dogs A Chi-weenie (Una) and Nora my Aussie at night in the park nearby off leash. One night a coyote grabbed Una, Nora took off after howling like a banshee! Una, nicknamed the "brown streak" because she runs so fast (I think it sounds like dirty underwear) got away with ony a couple of marks on her neck. I don't often walk in the park alone at night anymore, I walk with friends and their pack of dogs. Also I put a light on Una' s harness. She looks like weird little fairy with it on. And I blow a whistle loudly, it seems to work.
PennsylvaniaBobbie,
If you are not comfortable with guns you could probably do just as well with an industrial sized can of pepper spray.
Not like those things that people carry on their key chains to deter muggers. I mean the industrial sized ones that cops carry. Some of them are the size of a can of hair spray. They look like miniature fire extinguishers. If you get the high potency stuff (20% capsicum) you should be able to repel any creature shy of a grizzly.
Go to a gun shop and tell them what you want and why. Be straight up and honest. Just tell the guy that you are afraid of coyotes and you want something to keep on hand in case you need it. Any reputable gun dealer will be glad to help you and he won't bat an eye for asking.
While you're there, ask the guy if he teaches any urban self-defense courses. Good gun shop owners will either teach the courses themselves or they should be able to tell you where to go to get in on one. You should be able to find courses in both firearms and non-firearms defense.
Hawks are cool! :cool:
They sit on top of the light towers at the end of the runway and just hang out.
Hawks and owls are two of the primary predators for rats, mice and other small rodents. It is good to have one or two of them in your neighborhood. If they are well fed you should not have any problem with them bothering your pets. Even when hungry, it would be rare for a hawk to try to take anything bigger than a rabbit. Your dogs and cats should be safe from your average red tailed hawk or Cooper's hawk. (The common hawks in your area.)
You might see the occasional falcon or eagle but they are rare. I wouldn't even worry about them.
You are right to feel concerned about hawk and coyotes but be careful to keep yourself in the "be prepared" category rather than in the "scaredy cat" category. Hawks and coyotes are all God's creatures. They are here for a reason.
You are smart to be the one thinking about what you should do BEFORE something happens.
If you stay prepared and just keep your head about you, there should not be anything to worry about.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Hi US,
I wasn't one advocating guns; that wouldn't be even my last line of defense. You've mixed me up with others. I'm in metro Chicago and not too far from Laura. Coyotes do indeed live in our forest areas, backing up to newish housing, and also take dogs like Maltese right off the ends of leashes. It happened in Batavia/Geneva one night to a neighbor of our DD (the one now in AZ) while I was babysitting.
And the hawks have taken dogs from the fenced yards of other AZ neighbors so DD's family always stands outside with theirs.
We in metro Chicago have a pigeon problem - sitting, that is, and are used to seeing spikes poking up from the tallest structures in any area as that's their choice for sitting or roosting. DD in AZ has had special caps made of the same materials for the patio heaters and umbrellas. At least placing them there keeps the predatory birds over in the neighboring empty lot and circling high overhead rather than "waiting at the back door for their next meal to be served!"
I think in terms of self-defense all of the time: as a Sr citizen, who is first a woman, then has slowing reflexes and lastly and obviously, not as smooth a gait as I had in my 30s, I'm aware of being 'an easy mark'.
For those reasons I don't carry a purse (Dr Lic, some cash, CCs and car key are zipped into a mesh 3" x 4" packet in a deep coat or pants pocket) and I've studied T'ai Chi for 8+ years. The martial arts aspect is as important as the supreme exercise that it is from a good teacher.
We were on the Artists for Artists Tour in Vienna one year and I happened to be alone at late lunch time, leaving the hotel for some food. Going back to the hotel was to leave the more busy area and thinning crowds as ppl were returning to work. Browsing shop windows - I kept watch, as I felt that one certain man was following me for almost half an hour. I really dawdled and went into several shops for 10 minutes at a time to put him off; I was beginning to worry about the last quarter mile as I knew it was all commercial/light industry buildings and there was construction detours around the hotel: no one on the streets.
Fortunately, before I got to that point, I did lose my 'tail'... he was quite easy to keep an eye on as he had on a hounds-tooth check sports jacket and that flat-brimmed style golf cap. Not the most blend-into-a-crowd camouflage for a stalker!
But believe me - I WAS running through all of my T'ai Chi moves - "If he approaches me from this side I'll do this... If he reaches toward me like this I'll.....
I do believe that self-defense on an up close and personal level is MOST important, even more so than a weapon of any sort, because they can always be used against us in a panicky moment.
Sorry, still no Coyote solution. But here's a real Senior moment, at least for me: when did 'Cougar' become the new word for the May/Dec romance between Older Woman/Younger Man?? I'm still in the Toy Boy generation!!
B
PennsylvaniaI was generalizing. I meant more like "y'all" instead of "you-personally"
It's my fault for not being clear about that. I often do that... sorry.
I am really happy to hear that you know about self defense. You are absolutely right. You don't need to use firearms for self defense. In about 99.9% of cases you don't. But I look at guns like a mechanic looks at tools.
A car mechanic would never think about going to work without a socket wrench in his tool box. Maybe he'll never need that 4.5mm metric socket but, if he does, it could make the difference between getting the job done right and not doing it at all. Firearms are just another tool to have in your "self defense tool box."
I really applaud you for your actions when that guy was tailing you. I wish more people thought like you do. Our crime problems would be a fraction of what they are if more people were aware of their surroundings.
I am incredulous when I hear that people have lost pets of the end of leashes due to hawk attacks! How could anybody just stand there and let that happen? Do you mean that the bird attacked and, even though it was chased off, the dog was too injured to survive? That's the only thing I can think of! If I ever saw that happen, you can bet I'd do my darnedest to wring that d@mned bird's neck!
You know, with the pigeons, officials in Paris, France have come upon a good solution. They actually build pigeon coops on tops of buildings for them to nest in. The idea is that they draw the birds to all nest in one area. Then they can go into the nest boxes on a regular basis and take the eggs before they hatch. They actually control the numbers of pigeons that way.
There is an "optimum" number of birds to be living in a certain area. (Pigeons are scavengers. They clean up garbage.) When they get above that optimum number, the officials start taking more eggs from the nests until the population stabilizes.
I'd like to see this kind of control used in the US to keep urban wildlife in check. We wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)I am incredulous when I hear that people have lost pets of the end of leashes due to hawk attacks! How could anybody just stand there and let that happen?
Oops - I didn't Sentence/Grammar Check! - it wasn't a hawk in that case here in IL but a coyote who did the snatch & grab, after dark, and just on the edge of the pool of the back door light - 20' from the back door. I think that when the attack came, Anne's neighbor initially hung on, but as it had the dog by the throat, and with more power than she had, she soon got scared and let go of the leash.
It was all over within 10 seconds. A single coyote not a few or a pack, though a few were known to run together. Her screams were what brought all of the neighbors outside, but nothing was ever found; only she had seen it in the light.
I doubt I could seriously 'take anyone down' but I'd sure give them a pretty good surprise when they find themselves on the ground when I use their own weight and momentum to sidestep them and pull them right on past me!!
Step #2 I have yet to figure out. Fortunately I have yet to face Step #1, because I AM aware of my vulnerabilities and am ALWAYS planning for the worst possible scenario!
That's what a continuous diet of Jeffrey Deaver, Elizabeth George and Pat Cornwall will do for you!
PennsylvaniaI'm probably a bit guilty of skimming too... ;)
A coyote attacking a small dog at night is more plausible. I can see that happening.
I doubt I could seriously 'take anyone down' but I'd sure give them a pretty good surprise when they find themselves on the ground when I use their own weight and momentum to sidestep them and pull them right on past me!!
You'd be surprised what people can do when they are called upon.
I used to live in Boston. I worked at FAO Schwarz on the corner of Boylston St.
One day I was working at the register with my head down and my eyes on my work when the security guard came running past, hollered, "Randy! Come on!" Next thing I know, me and him are chasing this thief down the street. He had a Nintendo game under his arm.
I'm 6 feet tall and I weigh 280 lbs. I caught up to the crook in about a half minute. I don't know how I did it but I had the guy on the ground about 15 seconds after that. In times like that, you just "find" strength to do things you wouldn't normally do.
That's kind of when I started learning about myself. Since then, I have lived by the code of the bears: "Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. Mess with me and you'll regret it."
puca bearsOh- for someone living in europe, this thread is utterly fascinating! I'm glad I don't have to worry about our pets, tho' I can remember years back being slightly worried about hovering black kites (BIRDS) eyeing off a new kitten.
There's not much in the way of predators here - foxes, which any self-respecting cat can see off, and I hear that we have European Lynx around - but apparently you NEVER see them. And we do have wild boar, which can be dangerous.............I read of one poor lady who wandered into the spare room and found a boar asleep on the bed!!!
YIKES!!!!!!!!
But - I would LOVE to see a bear or two, in the wild - and it ain't going to happen here, after what happened a couple of years back to poor Bruno, the brown bear who had the temerity to wander into Bavaria!
huggies
Maria
Newcastle, OntarioHi Maria,
It is interesting to see what people deal with in different areas of the world. As I said earlier, coyotes are something new to me, since moving to this area, at least in these numbers and proximity. I remember the first few nights we moved here, listening to them at night. I thought Europe would have similar problems, but I guess not.
I would gladly give up our squirrel population to the coyotes 
- we have soooooo many and they are a nuisance and make such a mess. They also come right up to the glass patio doors and taunt our cats. Boy, I've been tempted on occasion to let them out 
I guess this problem will all be sorted when the warm weather comes and they can find food in the country. Take care.
hugs,
Brenda
PennsylvaniaI would LOVE to see a bear or two, in the wild
How about a YouTube video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdnPbtFF58A
puca bearsOh.thanks SO much, US bears! The pole-dancing bear is just wonderful...............and of course, I ended up stuck at the computer for ages, looking at more bear videos. Coincidentally, i recently discovered Zuni Indian fetishes, and am totally in love with the dancing bears (one on order right now, and i can't wait for it to arrive)..........and then there are the Inuit dancing polars............a whole new world of inspiration!
But i still dream of one day being able to see wild bears (from a safe distance/vantage point!)
huggies
Maria
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Try doing those 'exercises' against a wall, with or w/o the large rubber ball for support!
They are DARNED HARD to do but part of the regime of most knee replacement and back surgery rehabs.
I'm still struggling a couple of years later: the bears make them look so EZ!!!!
Wisconsinhttp://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/ … 5#29462475
I came across this video today about coyotes and thought I would share it.
Lynn
Bubble Up Bears!Thanks for the link. Scary for sure. I had to undergo Rabies Shots. Not as bad as all the hype but certainly not fun. 
Newcastle, OntarioLynn,
Thanks so much for that link. Interesting to hear that trying to cull the number of coyotes by killing them, will simply make coyotes have larger litters to stabilize thier numbers! I don't like to hear that they will in fact, attack humans unprovoked, though. They do seem to be a wide spread problem.
hugs,
Brenda
Bubble Up Bears!I questioned that statement. I can understand if they were being killed off in record numbers but from what I understood they were trying to kill a few rogue coyotes that were attacking adults and teenagers. Most that would consider attacking humans go for small children and pets. I worked for Animal Control for several years before becoming a pet shop owner and groomer and have a degree in animal behavior and in all my training I have never heard of such a thing....
I'm sure I will be corrected...
WisconsinThat's funny, I wasn't even looking at that statement, I was looking more at the aggressive behavior of the coyote. We have a friend that is a DNR warden (Department of Natural Resources) I will have to ask him about that. It seems to me that population control isn't a one time thing and something that must be addressed continually, but I might be all wrong.
Lynn
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)I don't know about larger litters, but the officers told our family that if they trap and remove one pack after another, others just move in. This has been tried for years within the city limits of Phoenix and its suburbs and found largely ineffective. They are able to keep it down to a certain number but will never eradicate them or make them able to live side-by-side with humans.
Coyotes simply fill in when and where there is room available so they do seem to be able to keep there numbers up to a certain minimum/maximum constant number. Litter size and therefore numbers within the packs may be part of this equation.
