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Taber, AlbertaHello, well Dakota started her training and the trainer wants everyone to use these types of collars, to tell you the truth... this collar does NOTHING for Dakota! The pulling is just insane! I am so hoping with the training that she will eventually learn not to pull and lunge. I never knew how much hard work going to "school" would be for me too 
and all the things I have to remember for at home for practice too! where's my memory? I think I might have to start writing things down 
Hi Brenda,
When training our Giant Schanuzer, we used a slip chain. You would just pull gently on that and she would know that
she had done something naughty.
After a while she then could just have a regular collar.
I think treats are the answer, when you are training - Heidi really responded well and would be so obedient if she knew
she would get a treat.
I am sorry I do not know what a Martingale collar is.
Good luck with your training - I know it is hard work, as they are so big and strong.
Hugs
Carolyn
Taber, Albertathe collar looks like a regular collar but has a loop made out of same fabric or from chain and when you pull on the collar it tightens. I'll try to post a pic of it. You use a choke chain? I think it's the same as a slip chain. Treats are good in the beginning but after about a half hour into the class she's bored of them and sits and won't do NOTHING except lay on her back and roll around with the leash in her mouth 
I hate to say it but the pinch collar worked really well for her attention and for distractions but this trainer will not let anyone in the class use this collar on a 9 month old pup even though she is big and mighty strong. I do also know that alot of trainers do use the pinch on a large breed as long as their not aggressive and Dakota is definately not aggressive. She takes advantage that she's stronger than me 
and the arthritis in my hands is getting worse
Laurie Lou BearsYou might find after a while of persevering that you get the hang of this collar and get on with it fine.Sometimes though you have to do what is best for you and your dog as it is no joke having a large dog that can pull you over and you need to use whatever is easiest to control your dog.We use a halti on our Dobermann as he can pull hard when he first goes out for a walk although after a good run off he is a lot easier to manage.You could always change puppy classes if it is possible to someone who will let you use what is needed to help you control your dog if you just can't get on with the other collar.I have seen big dogs pull people over more than a few times and have broken wrists etc so you need to be able to manage her as quickly and easily as possible before you can't do nothing with her because you can't control her with what someone else is telling you to use.
Hope this helps.
Laurie :hug:
Agree with you totally Laurie, a Halti works wonders. I was too terrified to take my Rotty out for a walk until I got one...he is a pleasure to walk now. Before even with a slip chain, he was just too strong for me to control, I couldn't recommend anything that has worked better
Hi Brenda,
I'm surprised your trainer wants you to use a Martingale. They are really designed for sighthounds because they can slip out of a regular collar because of their head shape.. I use wide Martingales on all of my whippets - but it doesn't help with pulling. Fortunately only one of my Girls pulls really badly.... unless they spot a rabbit :crackup:
Posts: 3,540I think humans tend to get hung up on the names they give various training collars, so much so that they're afraid to say what they use. A decent trainer will use the appropriate collar that's needed to get the results for you and your pup. If Dakota pays attention to the Pinch collar (named for the inventor, not that it pinches), then use it.
I agree, get to a different trainer who will be able to help you and Dakota. The sooner you can train her, the easier it will be on her and you both. Can't agree more ~ large dogs can injure people in no time flat.
Back Road BearsMy neighbor has a 100 pound yr old choc. lab and has a REALLY hard time controlling him despite classes, etc. After trying ALL the collars out there, she found he responds best to the prong collar (aka Pinch collar as Debbie called it) and its kept them both from being injured or injuring others. I know it sounds like torture, many feel that way, I did when we tried it with one of our boys. But if you have it the right size and use it properly it does work and does NOT HURT the dog... remember that they have different sensitivity than we do.... it takes a lot more to hurt a dog on the skin than to hurt a human. And the thicker the coat the more intense of a collar you may need to get the point across. My neighbor tried the Halti (like the easy walk harness which we use and LOVE) but the lab ended up putting his shoulder out because he was pulling SO hard against it! He's a big goof with not a vicious bone in his body but he's just totally out of control!
I should think that once she's learned to walk on a leash properly you wouldn't need a prong collar any more and then the lighter correction of a martingale might work just fine.
Remember, you are paying for this class, you know your dog and they are all different and respond differently to various training techniques and tools..... if what the trainer suggests, after giving a fair try, doesn't work, tell them so.... any good trainer knows that 'one size' doesn't fit all... and should work with you to find a collar that'll work best for Dakota.
Hang in there!!
Just found this article: http://www.johnknowsdogs.com/prong-collar-use.htm
Chaska, MinnesotaHave you seen the TV show called the Dog Whisperer? Cesar Milan is a dog trainer and has techniques for all kinds of dog behavior. It is on cable TV. Here in the USA it is on the National Geographic channel. You can buy DVDs of the show. But he also has a book out on how to correct common dog problems like lunging. You could buy the book on Amazon.com or through you local book store. Here is the link:
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)You and I must have been reading at the same time, Michelle!
Here's an article from a similar site:
http://www.johnknowsdogs.com/whichdogcollar.htm
A head halter is the only thing that broke the bad habits that our DIL allowed to happen with their huge, young yellow Lab (she's quite a softie and expected all dogs to act like the aging, gentle Golden Retreiver) but all dogs are different: matching the training to the dog's personality, the situation and your abilities is the right solution. It's just hard to know exactly what those 3 components are sometimes!
PennsylvaniaYou have to remember that dogs don't think like people. People can talk, think and reason. Dogs can't.
The only way to get through to a dog is to show it who is the "bigger dog."
All dogs respond differently. Some like treats. Some like to be petted and praised. Some need to be persuaded. Still, others need to be coerced.
It's up to you to figure out what your dog's secret is and use that to your advantage.
Maybe your dogs just needs to be yelled at in order to get her to behave.
A sharp pull on the leash and a stern "NO!" might be what it takes to get her to pay attention to you. Then, when she starts to listen, make a fuss and pet her and praise her.
I've never been a fan of using treats to train dogs because it is easy to fall into the pattern where the dog won't obey if it knows you aren't going to give it a treat.
Overall, there are two things that are essential to training a dog to do anything: Consistency and immediacy.
You must always teach the dog the same thing every time. If you pull on the leash and say "NO!" it has to mean the same thing every time.
If you want the dog to stop doing what it is doing and sit-stay when you pull on that leash then EVERY time you pull on that leash and say "NO!" must mean "Stop-Sit-Stay" If you start pulling on the leash when you want the dog to get into the car or because you want the dog to come to you, then you are going to confuse it. The dog won't know what to do when you pull the leash.
Second, you must remember that a dog's memory lasts about 15-30 seconds. If the dog pees on the floor and you scold the dog right when you catch it in the act, you will have an effect. IF you want 5 minutes, the dog won't be able to place the act with the punishment. All you will be doing is to confuse the dog.
Most dogs will react well to being verbally scolded when they are bad and praised when they are good but don't be afraid to use a strong hand if necessary.
One of my wife's friends has a big german shepherd. She's only about 5 feet tall and the dog is huge compared to her but she makes that dog obey every time. It is amazing to see! 
If the dog doesn't do what she wants, she goes right up to him, grabs him by the collar, pulls up and says, "NO!"
The dog immediately sits down, looks up and seems to say, "I'm sorry..."
When the dog finally does what she wants, she pets him on the head, says, "Good boy!" then gives him a pat on the rump... off he goes.
I grew up around dogs and my dad used to teach me how to train dogs to hunt. My dad had some very well-trained dogs but I've never seen a dog obey as well as my wife's friend's dog.
Start training early. Show Dakota who is the "bigger dog." Figure out what makes her respond and use that to your advantage. Always teach the same way. Always correct or praise immediately. And, finally, be patient.
Persevere and you will have your dog trained to do what you want in a lot less time than you think! 
well, I don't have big dogs, but I've got 2 60-pounders that I walk on 'Y' leash at least 2 hours a day. I got this pair as 8-week-old pups (8# each) and started out with the best of intentions. I was going to show everyone how to raise a dog right@
I bought 'The Art of Raising a Puppy', the best & most humane (and prettiest) harnesses I could find (Lupine) and had everything set and ready to go when I took the pup home.
The first thing they did was chew through each others $30 harness. I bought the cheaper ones. They ate those. bought cheaper still - and still they ate them.
I started buying cheap harnesses on ebay in lots of 12.
and I walked them daily, using all of the tips and tricks from 'the Art of Raising a Puppy' by the monks of New Skete.
and every time we stepped out the door, people would rush over to pet them. People would stop their cars in the intersection to pet them. Idiots would holler at them from across busy streets. . .and over and over again, I would say 'Please, don't pet them, I'm trying to train them not to jump' - to which every single person replied 'oh, we don't care if they jump on us'
(now they can jump about 5 feet high from a stand-still, and people seem to care a little. . .)
and they learned to pull - and run and jump to get near every single person they see, because they learned that everyone loves them and wants to pet them. on top of that, they are beagle-mix, which is a pretty high-powered little engine already.
I tried everything to get them to stop pulling, every safe and humane harness & halter out there - and I've got a drawer-full to prove it. I tried the Halti, I tried harness that pulled straps that ran down from the back and across their chest, harnesses that had the leash attach to the chest, ALL of them, and bought in pairs.
Nothing stopped them from pulling. one day a walk-in client who trains dogs offered to walk them for me. She was back in less than 10 minutes and handed me the leash saying " You need to get these dogs on a choke-chain' When I replied this my 'inhumane' rhetoric, she said 'Nonsense, you need to get these dogs under control'
I didn't really believe her, so I tried a regular martingale next , and still had no luck. (they'd happily choke themselves to death, if they thought there might be some petting involved)
so we switched to a plain choke-chain collar - and saw an almost immediate improvement, although they did manage to snap the d-rings of several seriously heavy-duty chain collars that first year.
Now we use a 'check-choke' collar, which is pretty much like a martingale, with a chain through the rings instead of strap. The trainer explained to me that the dog learns to 'listen to the chain' as it rasps through the rings, and should learn to stop pulling against it. I think the check-choke is much easier on their necks than the bare chain, and they do listen to the chain - usually. . .
as far as using those chain-prong collars, if you've got a big dog with thick neck hair. you might just have to. (and if anyone give you guff, just do what I did, and let them jump all over the prick. My guys took a guy down once, in front of the post office, after I warned him not to pet them and he started in anyway - just gave 'em a little slack and the guy was on his back)
The point of all that was just to reassure you that sometimes it's not your fault, sometimes, it's just plain the breed of dog. I used to have 2 rotties & 2 cockers that never needed a leash and marched like little ducks in row behind me. Now I know how that mom with a screaming kid feels like in the supermarket checkout. . :redface: :redface: :redface:
The other big problem with all the pulling was the toll it was taking on my shoulders and arms. it was killing me on top of the stress I put on my wrists & elbows with work. I tried a lot of leashes, too, and I finally cobbled together a leash system that works well for me.
1 25 foot Flexi leash
2 check-choke collars,
one 'knot-a-coupler' bunggee 'Y'
and one 'Jerk-ease' coupler
I find that the addition of the shock absorber makes a huge difference in health of my joints, but it also give me a little bit of recovery time, helping me catch my balance & brace against the next lunge, and the smaller 'Jerk-Ease' makes a handy second handle when I need to short-leash quickly. The dogs have also learned to respond to the 'click' of the Flexi-leash. many times, my voice won't stop them, but 3 clicks of the leash will stop them in their tracks.
one note on Flexi-leashes, though. If you're like me, you probably laughed when you read the warnings about leash 'snap-back', but the swivel on the end of our flex-leash snapped this winter when the leash was a full 25 feet out & the pups on a full run. . . the leash retracted at an unbelievable rate & the swivel caught me an inch below my left eye, giving me a black eye the size of an eggplant. All I could do was thank god for sparing my eye & mop up the blood. the black eye is gone now, but it left a very discernable 'V' scar under my eye that I'll be passing off as an old dueling scar in the future, so be careful with those flexis and be sure to replace yours at least once a year (if you've got a pulling dog, or jerk on the leash often, you need to replace the leashes & collars about every 6 months, mine have snapped several swivels & clips in the last 2 years)
Back Road BearsUs Bears... well said! I don't like treats for training. Who on earth truly goes around with food in their pocket all the time to give a dog every time it's good or to 'bribe' it into obeying? Seriously... how unrealistic and unnatural! Some dogs aren't even food motivated any way! In the wild dogs/wolves want to please the pack leader (who doesn't have food treats in his pocket)... that's their motivation... dogs naturally want to please.... for praise, approval, love they'll usually do anything! We as humans have taught them the unnatural habit of presenting good behavior only for food.
When you are out walking your dog and don't have food and it suddenly sees a baby in a stroller you want her to obey your "heel" command because its the safe and proper thing to do and simply what you command.... but will she if you don't have food???
While I don't agree with harsh physical discipline a good strong pull on the leash or a firm grasp of neck scruff with stern but calm verbal discipline is effective. Dog pack leaders will growl or use mouthing to correct unwanted behavior so our pet dogs will natural respond to similar discipline from their humans.
Consistency and immediacy.... ABSOLUTELY!
Brenda, your question about the martingale collar has nothing to do with food/treats/physical discipline.... sorry.... just got a little OT!! :whistle:
Kelly, I've had a similar thing happen to me with the end of the flexi leash and it HURTS!!! I've also been caught not holding on tight enough when one of the boys suddenly takes off... and they go off dragging the whole leash/handle with them until they hit someone else with it or get caught on something. And the rope burn on the legs from it.... oh yeah... great leashes until they aren't so great!! I'm glad you didn't get it right in the eye!!
Kelly, I've had a similar thing happen to me with the end of the flexi leash and it HURTS!!! I've also been caught not holding on tight enough when one of the boys suddenly takes off... and they go off dragging the whole leash/handle with them until they hit someone else with it or get caught on something. And the rope burn on the legs from it.... oh yeah... great leashes until they aren't so great!! I'm glad you didn't get it right in the eye!!
oucH! actually, my worst spill happened much like that, only I didn't let go of the leash. . . we were walking on the RR tracks and they ran down the slope to the service road alongside the track to get to another stray dog. I lost my footing, feet forward, came down on my back almost underneath my arm & got pulled about 50 feet on the ice. it would have been a riot, if I hadn't had the breath knocked out of me - and cracked a rib. I lost about 3 weeks of work with that one.
concenus: wear cleats - except that I usually do. I wore out 2 pair yaxtrax this winter and had stubbornly refused to invest in a 3rd pair.
I bought them again after that :redface:
Taber, AlbertaWow such great tips and advice everyone! I thought I would be bashed for using the prong but seriously it seems to be the only thing that helps and she would get excited when I took out the prong for a walk?? obviously it's not hurting her. I tried the halti and was raving about it until one day when going for a walk another dog came from across the street to greet her and went totally wild with excitement and managed to flip the whole thing off her head!
The first day of training when she was telling and showing us the collar to use I mentioned the that I had a prong on Dakota a she said " I never use that on a puppy and I didn't even know she had one on!" and she didn't know because of all of her fur covering it and I should of never mentioned it 
but Dakota was way more behaved until I switched collars. Yesterday she pulled me so hard around the room you would think the trainer would have noticed and I am so sore today! even my butt muscles 
I have read too that Martingales are usually used on dogs with longer thinner necks and that are great escape artists.
I am really finding with her that she needs very firm and lots of praise training. This trainer kind of comes off as a snob and if you don't do something right she makes you feel embarrassed and like scolds you like you felt in elementary school :redface: maybe it's me since I'm "sensitive" but my daughter got the same vibe from her and she was just watching and the teacher always has a favourite right? and that would be this 6 month old Golden named Harley and Harley, Dakota, and this chocolate lab named Katie are the crazy kids in class :crackup: The trainer was friendlier yesterday however so maybe she comes off that way when first meeting her.
Dakota is only going to beef up and get stronger so I think I will put the prong back on her and the trainer won't even know.
Kelly Dean - Sorry about your eye!! Your dogs sure look sweet and obedient in the picture!
I also have to say while I was growing up we didn't even use leashes or collars for that matter. I don't know how my mom ever did it and she doesn't either, they just respected her. My mom was also way more calmer with dogs than us kids 
I tried doing some Dog Whisperer techniques and Dakota looks at me totally confused?
Back Road BearsKelly - I would have a permanantly broken tail bone, never mind every other bone in my body if it wasn't for yak trax!!!! I went through two pair this winter and got a 3rd so I'd be ready for next winter!!! However, you are brave! I don't even walk my boys together in the winter any more because they are too strong for me.
I've thought about hooking a sled up to them!!!
Brenda - I know that look! It's like "who are you? who made YOU boss?" But once she gets over that and you are consistent with that voice when you have a command to give, she just might take you seriously!
Brenda,
How old is your pup now? You said that your dog looses interested after 30 minutes of class. DUH! If a training session if more than 30 minutes for a young pup, find a new trainer. How long can you hold a 3 year old human's attention? And, your traininer thinks he can hold a puppies attention longer? I trained my head strong lab myself. I started the day after I brought him home. I would work with him for 10 minutes at a time. That's it. I did this several times a day because that's all he could handle at first. The training sessions increased the older he got. He's a great dog! Momma's big boy at 85 pounds lean. When I ask if he loves mommy, I get a big, "Woof!"
Be firm with your dog and firm with your family and friends. Don't allow them to let your dog misbehave. Tell them he is in training and they must follow the rules too. No jumping up, etc. I had friends would encourage my dogs to jump up on them. It's so cute when they are little, but not when they grow into big hairy beasts! Be firm and you shall become the top dog of the house!
Hugs,
Alison
Taber, AlbertaAlison, she will be 10 months old on the 12th. She's the biggest one there, the Lab is pretty close but she's fairly chubby at 2 years old, this lab is soo hyper I can't understand why she is overweight but anyways the Lab and Dakota are the most energetic but Dakota pulls the worst.
I started training her myself and she already knew sit, stay, down, come and no bugging but she has a hard time controlling her excitement around other dogs and people even though she plays with 2 buddies, so I'm mainly doing this for more socializing skills other than that I don't think I would be taking her and I already paid the $200.00! She can't really play with her friends lately because they play too hard and her ligament is torn but right now she's not limping at all so I've been taking her on longer walks to for more slower paced exercise that's why it's so important to me that she behaves on walks.
She took me down in the middle of winter on a icy sidewalk [too bad not everyone shovels] and I would really love to take her to see my dad in the home he is in and we have no clue how much longer he has but she has to be well behaved. He has a stomach bag so there can't be any jumping going on! The prong keeps her focused and she has way better manners and I know as times goes on I can phase out that collar.
Daphne- she doesn't really look at me like "who are you to think your my boss" she really looks at me in utter confusion with the head tilt
PennsylvaniaThanks for your support, Daphne. :)
I hear so many people try to tell me that it's cruel to treat a dog a certain way. Then they spout a whole bunch of fluff about how they train dogs. Some of the advice is good. Some is just nonsense. The just don't realize that dogs don't think the way people do.
I may not be a great dog expert but I grew up with dogs. As I said, my dad used to breed and train hunting dogs. When I was a kid, I used to go downstairs and sleep in the puppy box. Being around dogs and animals from the time I was a young kid might not make me an expert but I certainly can "speak dog." ;)
The Martingale looks like a fancy type of constriction collar. It might work for some dogs but not every dog.
My dad used to keep two collars on his dogs. One was a wide, flat leather collar. The other was a choke chain. What he did was to thread a nut and bolt through one of the links of the collar so that it would not go so tight as to completely choke the dog. It would slip tight enough to give the dog the "message" but not so tight as to hurt.
Hint: If you pull on your dog's choke collar and he makes a weird "Haa! - Haa!" sound that resembles a honking goose, that's too tight! That means you're cutting off the dog's windpipe! Back off one or two links on the chain and put your stopper bolt right there.
Every dog is different. I remember some dogs that would cower if you simply yelled at them. There were others that wouldn't listen if you hit them on the head with a crowbar! (Figuratively speaking, of course.)
I remember one dog, named "Rex" which used to run away a lot. My dad had to clip 20 pounds of logging chain to Rex's collar just to slow him down! 
I was about 12 years old and weighed a good 100 pounds at the time. Dad handed me Rex's leash and said, "Here, hold him."
Well, old Rex knew he wasn't under Dad's thumb anymore and he knew he could get away. That dog took off, dragging my 100 pound carcass and 20 pounds of chain to boot! It barely slowed him down! All I remember is my dad laughing as he dragged me all around the field. ;)
I've thought about hooking a sled up to them!!!
You know, Daphne, that's not an entirely silly idea! 
If your dogs will tolerate the harness, it might be cool. It'd be a lot of exercise for them and it would be fun for you. :thumsbup:
Historically, Saint Bernards were often hitched up to wagons.
A lot of people still do!
http://www.stoncreeksaints.info/photo_album_i
http://www.stoncreeksaints.info/
(Bottom of page.)
Taber, Albertathat's too funny about the dog, you, and the chain I know the Bernese where bred to haul carts up the Swiss Alps and to herd. Dakota herds the cats when she can catch them in one spot and I swear she's a bird dog! I have never heard of the Bernese retrieving birds but this dog is consumed by them. She watches the birds in the trees constantly and chases them when she can, she trips over her own feet when we walk because she has to look in the sky when she hears the geese, and her favourite toy is this big honking chicken and she also lifts one paw off the ground when she's sniffing like she's spotting or pointing? She's supposed to be a purebred Berner
Bubble Up Bears!She sounds like she is full of personality. What a great dog she is!! 
You have received a ton of advice here and I won't add mine but you wouldn't be the first dog owner to reinvest and train again with someone else or another program. 80% of my clients (I only did private training not group) had already been through at least one training program before coming to me.
As I have told you before you have a breed that I have always longed to own. Sounds like life will never be boring with Dakota!!
Best of luck.
Benson BearsHi Brenda, honestly, if the prong collar is working then that's the way to go. I've seen Cesar Milan use one on a really bad case, he explained that they don't hurt the dog, but imitate the feel of another dog grabbing it round the neck, which is how dogs in the pack control each other! By using one you are reinforcing your alpha role for Dakota. I'm lucky that I don't have to walk either of my dogs on a lead, we have boundless bush to walk in, with a lake thrown in for good measure, but when the need arises I use a check chain for Lily with the lead, but I think one would be of very linited use with Dakota and her fluffy coat, I could see it getting totally tangled in there and not working!
Kelly, your little friends look lovely, I can totally see why everyone wants to pet them, I'm afraid I'd be a culprit! :redface:
Taber, AlbertaCyndee- she does have tons of personality! never a boring moment. She is so pretty and especially kids want to pet her and say "I like your dog" and I start thinking maybe if they had her for a few days they might change their mind a little She loves other dogs and people and she's even starting to like TALL men They say there's 3 kinds of Bernese 1. The laid back lazy kind 2. Timid and shy 3. happy go lucky kind with energy. Not in those exact words but you get the idea. I would say she's number 3 the most with just a touch of the others.
Linda- If the prong works best for her and me that's the important thing. If I don't start getting a better vibe with this trainer I will drop out and find another, maybe one on one would be better but I do want her around other dogs. She also told us that she will smack any hands if she catches us wrapping the leash around our hand since it's supposed to be held with the loop through the thumb along the palm of the hand, geesh! Makes us feel like children and we are all older than her except one girl
Treats worked for our dog and it was only for about 6 months, while we were training her.
She was the best dog ever and I was happy to say while out walking she was well behaved and could walk past baby strollers and other dogs without
pulling or misbehaving, thus making our dog walks pleasant for all.
So whatever works for each and everyone.
Brenda have you ever watched the Dog trainer Victoria Stilwell? - she is amazing the way she could train dogs that were so unruly.
Good luck
Hugs
Carolyn
There's nothing wrong with this type of collar...they are not cruel, and are actually easier on a dog's neck than a choke chain collar. I use one on Otis, our Mastiff/German Shepherd pup (age 1 1/2) who weighs over 100 pounds now. I couldn't walk him without it....he would pull my arms from their sockets with his exuberance! It's amazing how little correction I need to use in most situations....usually just a twitch of my finger on the leash is enough now. Otis walks right along in the 'heel' position where he should. Of course, this didn't all come about just from the prong collar. We have also had to study and learn about pack structure and how to be good pack leaders. That's the hardest part...and we're are still learning! Cesar Milan talks about this, and he is obviously a pack leader...I love watching how quickly the dogs respond to him. The training we have chosen to follow is similar to his, though Ed Frawley can be much more blunt about things. I happen to like that, as I like to get right to the point with things like this, so his (and his wife's) training works for me (and Darren, too). Plus, there is tons of free information on their website. They operate Leerburg Kennels, breeding and training K-9's for many years now. Here's a link to their site: http://leerburg.com/ Another link to the page where you can find the free puppy training e-books: http://leerburg.com/puppytraining.htm There are more pages with information on training older dogs, obedience training, agressive dog handling, etc. So much to read....I have spent hours there. Have also bought a couple of his DVD's, which I whole-heartedly recommend to anyone. Really, stumbling across this site saved us with Otis. He is a tough one, as he is so big and also tends to be fear-agressive as well as anxious. We have to have control of him at all times. It's for his safey as well as ours and anyone else who comes in contact with us. So, we use the prong collar, and always with a back up collar in case the prong collar fails and comes apart. (If they aren't fitted properly, this can happen and your dog is loose.....not good!) Otis has come such a long way, as have we. Pack structure is fairly firmly established in our home now, and Otis has lost much of his anxiety problems. Today I was so proud of him......a farmer stopped in the driveway while I was out walking with Otis, and my pooch handled things very well. He did bark and growl a tiny bit when the truck first pulled in, but quieted down right off when told to do so. Then he sat by my leg and acted all aloof like that farmer (and his dog that was still in the truck) wasn't even there. Perfect! That's what we want.....Otis knows it's not his job to protect 'the pack'. That job's mine (and Darren's), he understands this, and he feels safe letting us do our job. I can't wait to tell Darren when he gets home from work tonight! :dance: Anyway, do check out the site. You'll probably find something there that will help you. In fact, I think I remember reading something in particular about the Martingale collars...........there is also info on the proper way to fit and use the prong collars. If you need a question answered, like how old a pup needs to be before using this type collar, for instance, you can email the Frawleys, and they will email an answer back to you.Here's another link to the e-books: http://leerburg.com/dogtrainingebooks.htm
I just put in a search for martindale collars on Leerburg's site and found this question and answer. Well put, I thought!
I had a collar question, I was wondering if you had any immediate thoughts on martingale flat collars. On the equipment section of your Basic Dog Obedience, you don't mention these. Are these effective and humane?
Thank you.
Reuben
Answer:
In our opinion, a martingale collar is really nothing more than a flat collar that the dog can't slip. You see a lot of these on sight hounds, because of their unique structure of having a head smaller than their neck.
They can get out of regular collars very easily.
I use a variety of collars on my dogs, flat collar, prong collar and remote.
I don't feel that there is one PERFECT collar out there, they each are used as needed according to the dog's drive, temperament and level of training.
I hope this helps.
Cindy
