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Bumpkin BearsHi, I have been string jointing my minis and would like to try giving them armatures. I have tried this on a larger bear attaching to the cotterpin joint in the arms but is there any way to do this without cotter pin joints?! I can't imagine that it is possible but I thought someone may have an idea here?
Hugs
Catherine
Posts: 8,574Interesting question
I am thinking, chenille stems, also known here as pipe cleaners.
I am thinking that if I were to use kapok and really stuff it hard, (I just learned that when you spray it to keep it from flying up your nose it also packs more firmly) so if the paw and shoulder were really firm and the stem were inserted in the paw and shoulder kapok then the reas of the arm could be stuffed around it, the stem
Since I have a rabbit that I should stuff today I will try this and show you the results, also let you know how it feels, if it is stable etc.
Thanks for the challange.
Dilu
Posts: 1,277I used chenille stems in one mini bear a while back. It worked fine. I did curl the end before inserting so it wouldn't poke through the paw.
Bumpkin BearsOh great, that's really kind of you Dilu - I look forward to seeing your bunny :)
Hugs
Catherine
Posts: 8,574Excellant Sandi- I'll be sure to do that too!
Wild Thyme OriginalsHi there! I don't do wire armatures very often in the minis that I thread joint.... but when I have done it, here's what I've done. Obviously, the main issue/problems:
*There is no cotter pin to anchor the wire through... you have a "free floating" wire in there.
* You can't stuff a limb too hard if you want it to be able to bend....
* You don't want to be able to feel the wire either at the shoulder or the paw... and you certainly don't want it to poke out trough the fabric....
*
Here's how I've handled it before... get some good old craft wire, maybe a 24 gauge or so. Measure out the length of the limb, including and bends in your pattern at the wrist or elbow, double that measurement and cut it off the spool. Then I bend it in half and cut about an additional centimeter off at the non-bent end. The end with the bent will be the shoulder, the "open" end will be the paw end. Then I curl over the wires at the paw end with my pliers or hemostats. Next I get some craft yarn and put the end of the yarn through the bent end of the wire, tie a knot to sort of hold it in place, and start wrapping the yarn around the wire all up and down the length, I concentrate a lot at the ends... to completely cover them with sort of a small dome of yarn (think Q-Tip... or cotton buds as our lovely British friends call them!) I put a small amount of FabriTac (a fast drying flexible glue... but you could use just about any glue that remains flexible after drying) on the domed ends to make sure that it all kinda sticks there. When I've been out of FabriTac I have just secured the ends by using regular sewing thread and just sort of tacking down the yarn so that it will all stay in place. Then I insert the armature into the limb. When you stuff, you are going to want to make sure that you get stuffing packed all around the wire "bone" that you've just made. Don't stuff so hard that you can't bend the wire though... THAT kind defeats the whole purpose of the armature in the first place! That's how I've done it. It's strong, there is much less worry of the actual wire breaking, or poking out through the fabric. And, if the "bone" does eventually work it's way through the stuffing and is resting right against the fabric ... it doesn't "feel" like a wire at all, with all that yarn padding on it. If I left something out, or my instructions are a mess... just e Mail me or PM me... or just ask here & I'll be happy to try to clarify!
Beary truly yours,
Kim Basta
Wild Thyme Originals
Kim, that's pretty much the same way I do a wire armature for my big bears. I use thick plastic-coated wire, and have thus far only ever attached it to the bolt joint using a ring terminal; at these sizes, there's no need to allow the wire to "free float," as I'm sure you're already well aware.
But your nicely stated idea of using wire, and wrapping it well with padding -- for my big guys, I use polyfil, secured by wrapped thread, stitched in places, or sometimes, instead, with VERY, VERY thin jewelry wire -- is well known to me, and produces a nice result that you can't "feel" from the outside in big bears, too. I learned this technique from Kristine Holmberg, on another board, some time ago. She was generous in sharing about her armature methods.
I like your idea for the minis of using a nice fat yarn, with Q-tips ends.
I don't think I'll ever make a mini that small because, I swear to the Big Guy above, I just don't have the patience to turn the limbs. I just want to pitch the entire dang creation RIGHT through a window! And that's with a bear at about 7", which is MONSTROUS to you mini makers.
But it's good to have this knowledge on board all the same.
Thanks for sharing!
Bears-a-Bruin!I think most of the points have been well covered, but just to add a little more....I have wrapped the wires with yarn/thread in the way that Kim does. And it does work very well! But at the moment I'm in the habit of wrapping the wires with felt instead. I use a little glue to hold it in place and then sew it in place to finish off, paying particular attention to the ends. This gives a nice amount of padding so that the wire can't be felt, and can still be stuffed around once placing in the arm.
My experience has taught me that the wire itself is important - not too thin that it can't hold the shape once the arm is stuffed, and not too thick that you need to use pliers to position the arms! I use plastic coated wire that I --- ahem, and here comes a confession/tip --- steal from my daughter's toys. It's used in the packaging that holds dolls and other plastics toys in their boxes, and you have to fight it to get the toy out!!! I really like that wire. I have used beading wire of various thickenesses too though, and that works well too.
Hope this helps - let us know how you get on!
Bears-a-Bruin!Oh, I should say that the idea of wrapping the wire with felt wasn't entirely original on my part! I got it from here: http://www.woodlandteddies.co.uk/armature.htm . I don't include the polyfil though - I just wrap the felt around the wire to the thickness I want 
Wild Thyme OriginalsHelena! I've used that wire too!!!!!! I think it has just about the same pliability/strength as a 24 gauge. That's one part of Christmas/Birthdays that I absolutely hate.... undoing all those wires! Geeze! Remember when Barbie just came in a box! I'm sure she was secured in there somehow... can't remember how... but now, for every accessory in the box there are like three of those wires holding it in! It drives me bananas every time, and inevitably, a piece of two doesn't get thrown out (or saved!) and winds up in the corner of the room, where my vacuum finds it, and chokes! Either that, or my husband's foot finds it! The hubby's foot can find every dropped wire, pin, needle...... you can imagine. I mean, I'm glad it's him and not the kids!!!!! But, boy does he hate it!
Beary truly yours,
Kim Basta
Wild Thyme Originals
My cats are the ones who find and play with those bendy wire-y things, in my house. Those, and the little colored plastic strips that peel off the gallon jug of milk like a little c-shaped curl, when it's first opened. I don't get the appeal of those skinny plastic things, in terms of "play value." But then, I'm not a cat.
Posts: 8,574
Catherine
I figured it was worth a try even though I suspected the pros what say no; but here is what I did do.
I dampened the kapok, ever so slightly, stuffed it into the shoulder area.....while it was drying I poked a needle in it in the right place for the placement of the armature
While it dried around the needle I took a chenille stem and cut a piece to size. I folded it in half, so that the paw/wrist area wouldn't have sharp points irritating the fabric.
then I twisted the two ends together and then I dipped them into magna-tac.
I removed the needle and put the twisted end into the hole the needle created for me.
After it was dry I bent the stem to get the rest of it into the arm and then finished suffing with the kapok.
Now, my thinking is was it possible?
Catherine asked the question
I had a shell waiting to be stuffed
I wanted to see if I could figure out a way that would maintain the integrity of the fabric while using string jointing which is what Catherine said she was curious about.
Also, Shelli, the maker of biguns, remember this bunny, not counting his ears, is the length of my middle finger,slightly less than 3" and his arms are slightly less than 2"
Also- he is too small to actually be 'doing' anything with his bendable arms...however, the challange was, could it be done. I guess we wont see him on the next olympic gymnastics team.... :lol:
I have bent his arms back and forth slowly but still stretching the limits of his limitations, and surprisingly he has more limberness than I would have expected.
I will take a pic and post it....haven't got his face done
However, Catherine the question was can it be done.....well yeah, I guesss it can....I am unsure if this is a technique I would use if I were selling, however, because I have no control over how the little guy will be treated, and therefore the wire would worry me... However the two sharp ends are embed in the kapok with glue, so I think that will be all
right.
I guess I wanted to see how I would do it. Now I can go and read what the pros say.... :)
After I take a pic....
Also he can't have eyes until tomarrow, because I am trying Pennys polymer clay technique for lids, but, Catherine you can see his arms are bent.
Oh, I had already done the legs last night so I couldn't, well didn't want to take him apart to add stems, but he has them in his ears as well
Bumpkin BearsGREAT - thanks everyone to go to soo much trouble explaining your techniques. Thanks Dilu for trying the chenile stems in your bunny - he is sooo cute even if he can't see himself yet and his arms look lovely and bendy I went out today and DOH forgot to look for chenile stems :doh: I'm sure I've got some of those plastic wire thingies that drive us mad at christmas... lots of ideas to try out - THANKS AGAIN..
Hugs
Catherine
Posts: 8,574Now Catherine- you have to post your try at it.....
I just finished cooking his eyes so I guess I need to put them in.....I won't know till he gets them if he is a he or a her.....
Wild Thyme OriginalsCan't wait to see your wee little bunny Dilu! Suspense......
Beary truly yours,
Kim Basta
Wild Thyme Originals
Bears-a-Bruin!Kim, Shelli - yes it's such a nuisance having to undo all the threads and wires that the toys seem to come packaged with these days :mad:. I used to hate it. Birthdays and Christmas would always have those frantic wrestling matches with the packing - trying to tear out the Barbie doll without causing any damage and my daughter in the background saying 'can I play with it yet mummy, can I, can I, can I????!'. Well, my stress levels have been reduced since I found a use for those pesky wires!!! Now I don't mind half so much, and diligently collect them, straighten them and stash them in my work box 
Kim, your poor hubby! Ouch!!!
Posts: 8,574Well the suspense builds.....the 3mm with the Sculpy lids (I used pink) oops....were too scary, even for me, I couldn't even pretend whimsical they were really that bad...he looked like he needed a cleaver in one hand and a shot gun in the other!
So, I switched to a light brown Sculpy and 2mm eyes.....and now they are cooling.....yikes, I think I will have nightmares about that scary rabbit.
scary...spooky.....
think Psycho music here......
:P
I did us chennile stems in the ears too
Posts: 8,574
It was a dark and stormy night and the evil bunny rabbit, who was fired by the Easter Bunny last spring, is now plotting against Santa....
Winneybears and FriendsOh Dilu, You are a crack up....Bunny is just trying to get those lights untangled,he does look rather determined... he, he...Winney
Cleathero CreationsDid you end up naming him?
