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Pat Klein Oct 17, 2009

Dear Teddy Talkers,

Did you ever think about how many thousands of years of teddy bear crafting experience this forum represents?  Boggles the mind!  What a resource! :clap:

Anyone out there with experience in building big (20 inch plus bears) and making them stand easily.  How do you do that? 

Falling backwards or forwards on face is unacceptable.    No lateral movement in hips either preferred.

Am I on the right track for improving the problem?  This is what I plan to do to correct the difficulty I am having:

Moving up to hardboard disks with locknut joints.  (I’ve been using fiberboard and cotterpin)
Increasing foot size by one inch shoe size. (a pattern length of 8 inches)  (too small?)
Increasing weight in foot.  (What proportion of weight in foot to weight in belly for a standing bear should you have?)

He is designed so that ¾ of his weight is in the lower third of his body.  I also add cable in the leg to prevent distortion.  Bear’s leg position is center point on side of pattern and feet are positioned (my ideal) a compromise of half under, half to the side of bear with toes facing forward.  In other words, he is neither extreme foot position.
   
I’ve not had difficulty standing the bears (even with their pulled toes) until they started getting taller…(my husband says I’m overfeeding them )…He’s a very well behaved and patient bear and would like to get around better then he’s doing presently so any help would be so very much appreciated.

Sincerely,

Pat and Chompzworth (awaiting legs that work)

Clarebear Oct 17, 2009

Definetly change to nuts and bolts for joints as I have found that cotter pins just wan't do it for bigger bears.  It sounds to me like you are on the right track with the bigger feet etc but I don't put extra wieght in the legs as it seems to make them too heavy and they won't stand then.  The other thing you can do is to put a plastic template inside the feet so that they are smooth and flat which creates a good surface for standing on.

Clarebear Oct 17, 2009

PS make sure that the legs are stuffed very firmly especially at the top.

EvaJ Oct 18, 2009

Another idea might be to add a dowel down the center of the leg.  Never tried it but maybe.....

Pat Klein Oct 18, 2009

I was wondering if adding a dowel or my cable in the legs wasn't the way to go...I have only seen doweling in bears made to stand permanently and not bend or sit...the problem is where to connect the dowel at the top of the leg...which is why I was using cable.

I am stuffing extra hard but can change from polyfil to a denser stuffing (I found some bamboo fiber recently that is extremely dense at Jo Anne Fabrics --probably similar to excelsior in that regard) which I purchased initially for stuffing my muzzles.  I personally find it very difficult to get polyfil to compact to the denisity required in some of these areas.

Thanks for these suggestons...it is good to know I'm on the right track with the jointing...especially because it is certainly an investment for the hardware

Will it help, do you think with the lateral, sideways, movement in the hips too?

Pat

Little Bear Guy Oct 18, 2009

I have also found adding a heel to the foot, so at the back of the foot when you design the pattern, kind of create a a heel at the back, this will allow some weight to be on the back of the foot and not having to worry about all the weight going to the front. Also some people have used a heave cardboard in the foot of the bear, nice flat surface and makes the bear stand very nicely. When I do a standing bear I put weight in the toes, in my 18" standing bears there is likely a pound of shot in each foot, but then I don't put very much shot in the tummy. I find it's not needed as I only put steel shot in the tummy when I want to make the bear heavier, well with so much weight in the feet there is usually no need for extra in the tummy. So your hubby could be right and perhaps you are over feeding them  .  Hope this helps

hugs

Shane

Pat Klein Oct 18, 2009

Shane,

With all that steel shot in their toes think of the things you could do with magnetic plates!    They could walk on ceilings!

I guess I am overfeeding the bears...I have most of the weight in the belly...that is very good advice...thanks I will definitely try the weight redistribution...also, I've been standing all my bears on pulled toes, which hasn't been a problem at all til now...

Thanks,

Pat

dangerbears Oct 18, 2009

One thought, Pat -- With the "sideways" movement in the hips, and you using the largest disks possible for the leg joints? and also the larger of the sizes for the lock nuts and bolts?

Keep us posted!

Becky

Pat Klein Oct 18, 2009

Ahhhhhh So, Becky, no I wasn't using 'large' disks...but I was using cotterpins on that bear and I was using appropriate size disks for his leg design(1 1/2" disk and 1/8" diameter cotterpin on 17" bear)...I think in retrospect, my design for his weight and height was too small a diameter joint.

For the 22" current bear...I am redesigning the leg joint with a 2 1/2 inch disk and 1/4" pin...think that should help the 'hula effect'?

This is becoming an exercise in physical engineering  Way

Pat

teeeej Oct 19, 2009

I agree with thebearguys. I found having an nice flat foot helped a lot. I have used garnet sand, fine glass beads and steelshot in the feet for weight. When you fill the feet have them on a flat surface so the bottom of the foot stays flat.  The fine glass beads/garnet tend to mould into the shape of the foot nicely. Larger glass beads tend to have a bumpy effect.

---
Therese

rowarrior Oct 20, 2009

My 19 " bear and I have just had a little discussion about this, and here's what we found - he has nut and bolt joints, I find them much more stable than cotter pins for larger bears.  He has 5 1/2" long x 2 1/2" wide feet, and his feet are filled with plastic pellets, which I find easier to flatten than stuffing - I've not tried shot or anything other than pellets I have to say.  His pads are also a kind of knit backed suede rather than ultra-suede, which prevents the pellets being felt.  HTH

Pat Klein Oct 25, 2009

Thank you Ladies and Lads,

My bears suffer from too small a foot area...I have rectified the design...only one gory leg amputation required fortunately the other two bears have not had their appendages attached yet and the other two bears had their upgraded foot size cut out.  I have designed the foot flat to heel with the front quarter sloping up because I pull toes...that way there should be enough surface contact for standing without the toes interfering with stability...

my 15 inch bears have had no problem standing on their feet WITH pulled toes and arches. (see picture)..nor did my 17 incher...I haven't tried it with these big guys...but they are so much heavier.  When you increase the height of the bear seems to increase in size and weight it seems exponentially.

I use double felt for my foot pad because I have been pulling such tight toes for extra indentation and it makes a very thick sole...and I thought the addition of a flat piece of plastic or cardboard along the sole to help flatten wouldn't hurt so the bumpy pellets would also sit better Rowarrior.  Tell your bear, thanks for the help.

Pat

Pat

Pat Klein Oct 25, 2009

Sorry here's my foot picture...it walked away from me :crackup:

teeeej Oct 26, 2009

What a great foot!! 

Pat Klein Nov 8, 2009

THEY STAND!   :clap: 

TWO Big boys are on their two tootsies and have been standing unsupported now for four hours.  We'll see where they are in the morning  :pray: ...I can still tip them over if I push them but I can reposition them easily, so I guess that is acceptable?

Thanks so much to everyone for all the suggestions and "support" (no pun intended)

I think I used every single suggestion in building these guys... all 23 inches of them.

As soon as they have their best faces on and are all sewn up I will get pictures to prove they really can stand alone.  For the next three bears on the assembly line (i.e. me) we have upgraded the tootsies to a size and 1/2 larger sole  (1 1/2 inches in length of foot pattern)  Hopefully this should translate into even more stability.  We'll see tomorrow. 

With any luck there will be five large grizzly bears standing on my dining room table!  I can hardly wait!

That should scare the dickens out of the cats 

Pat