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Back Road BearsDoes a teddy bear have to be jointed to be considered an "artist bear"?
Does it become more of a children's toy if the limbs are say sewn into the seams?
Even if the face is still done as a traditional jointed collectible bear's face and the bear is made of mohair?
What if it wasn't made of mohair?
The artists we have here all seem to make jointed bears of mohair or they are felted or thread bears. So does that mean synthetic unjointed bears are just a craft?
I'd love to hear your take. Would you welcome an artist here that made jointless yet artful bears? Would you pay a good price for such a bear?
I know, if you could SEE what I'm trying to describe it would help. But I haven't seen bears as I've described. (Can you tell I'm scheming a new idea here?) I'm not talking about a McCall's pattern bear or the real folky looking felt/cloth bears. Something in between all that and an 'artist' bear. Am I making myself clear as mud yet??? :doh:
Daphne
BEAR ME SHOOTKADaphne, I think bear making is too concervative. As all German......
But personally I would love to make unjointed bear someday. Yesterday I've got an e-mail from a lady. She was asking me to make two bears for her daughters. 7 and 1 years old. I think artist's bear for 1 year old girl should look alot different. (and we discussed that already).
But still It would be me making the bear....... 
.
I will deffinatelly welcome such artists! Daphne are you one of them? :hug: :whistle:
Julia
Estelles canal bears and Tod TeddiesI dont know anyone elses take on this but I consider a bear artist to be anyone who designs bears and makes there own patterns they could be made of any fabric including patchwork, and by any method, to me its a form of soft sculpture and the original creative input that counts. If someone buys a pattern and makes a bear without alteration that is craft as the creative bit has allready been done. I hope that makes sense? :doh:
Back Road BearsHi Julia,
No, I'm not one of them but just tyring to come up with something different to try that is still within the realm of an artist bear. I don't think the term 'artist bear' is used too loosely (sp?).
Back Road BearsEstelle,
It does ... we have talked about whether someone who makes bears is an artist or a maker or a crafter or a...... and determined that desinging original patterns is a must to be an 'artist'. Just curious if a non traditonal, unjointed 'artist-type' collectible bear is still an artist bear, I guess.
Like, if I were to submit an unjointed bear made of something other than mohair to the TOBY or Golden Teddy or ACE competitions would they stamp "DENIED" on my application and send it back!?!
BEAR ME SHOOTKABy the way, I like your new avatar!
You know Russian collectable artist bears are differ from others. I have a pictures from Moscow show already. Bears are made of EVERYTHING!!! But almost all of them are fully jointed... ;), and have other features of an artist bear.
Flying Fur StudiosDaphine, have to say I love your new aviator!!
As for artist bear, I dont know what the official definition is, or who even wrote the definition of an artist bear.
But I cant imagine they would have to be out of mohair. What about real fur, so Shari here makes some pretty artistic bears out of some nice faux fur. I think those are artists bears.
Or what about other animals?? ( cat, girraffe etc ) some of those aren't jointed but are still 'artist'.
So, I think that as long as you make the pattern, make the nose etc. It IS an artist bear vs.a manufactured bear.
Heather
Upstate New YorkDoes a teddy bear have to be jointed to be considered an "artist bear"?
I don't see why it would have to be jointed. There are no teddy bear police. Our individual integrity does the policing (right, wrong or otherwise).
Does it become more of a children's toy if the limbs are say sewn into the seams?
Even if the face is still done as a traditional jointed collectible bear's face and the bear is made of mohair?
What if it wasn't made of mohair?
I think if I incorporate child safe joints and eyes, etc., and my stated intention is for the bear to be child's toy, then yes, it's a child's toy, regardless of medium. (What are the laws surrounding selling items intended for children?)
The artists we have here all seem to make jointed bears of mohair or they are felted or thread bears. So does that mean synthetic unjointed bears are just a craft?
I don't think so as long as they are also original works.
I'd love to hear your take. Would you welcome an artist here that made jointless yet artful bears? Would you pay a good price for such a bear?
Absolutely ... on the welcoming. I think artists would have to price their bears accordingly, i.e., if there are fewer steps and/or less time, etc.
I dont know anyone elses take on this but I consider a bear artist to be anyone who designs bears and makes there own patterns they could be made of any fabric including patchwork, and by any method, to me its a form of soft sculpture and the original creative input that counts. If someone buys a pattern and makes a bear without alteration that is craft as the creative bit has allready been done.
I think I agree, except that I think there is considerable creatively required to bring a teddy to life ~ apart from the pattern. The fabric, the color, the paws, the embellishments, the painting/enhancements, the expression, the name, the .... you get the idea. Sometimes my own pattern pieces look pretty much the same to me, and I'm not convinced that ALL the art is in drawing the pattern, but is in the envisioning of the end result. (Not that my end result is always as envisioned, haha!) Sometimes I feel most creative when I have to drop back 5 and punt to make something work.
I also think collectors are smart enough to differentiate between minimal and over the top efforts in each piece.
Upstate New YorkThere are no teddy bear police. Our individual integrity does the policing (right, wrong or otherwise).
I also think collectors are smart enough to differentiate between minimal and over the top efforts in each piece.
Afterthought ... actually, I guess the collectors are the teddy bear police, right?
UKWell i class an artist bear being a bear that has been made by an individual, reagardless wether its mohair.synthetic. jointed or un-jointed. ! 
Past Time BearsDaphne . . . I'll quote the rules from the 2006 TOBY contest:
"A 'teddy bear' is a plaything or collectible produced in the image of a bear, with an external covering of plush or other fabric (including real fur and leather). A teddy bear can be jointed, partially jointed, or unjointed. Entries in category 10 only may be created from alternated substances (e.g., wood, felt, clay, yarn, wool)."
Hope that helps!
Winneybears and FriendsJumping in here Id like to point out that I once saw a very wonderful piece where a daddy bear was dancing with his son , remember the old poster where the bears dance ?... This was like that and is a still life sculpture done with wire armatures inside the fur bodies ... very antimated happy bears. I would definately say this was art.... Winney
Canna Bear PaintSue Ann beat me to it, yes you can absolutely submit unjointed or non-mohair bears (and other animals) to both the TOBY and Golden Teddy awards. Don't worry Daphne, I don't think they'd ever send anything back with a big DENIED stamped on it
:)
I have seen unjointed and partially jointed artist bears and other animals. Look at Lisa Pay's dog patterns, many of them are only partially jointed, and she certainly gets acclaim and recognition for them. Karen Lyons' cats and bears are sometimes unjointed or partially jointed. I've seen several very good bear artists at shows that have a small unjointed 'beanie' bear type option for collectors with smaller budgets. They are very sweet and well-made bears, they are generally smaller and squishy and an awful lot of fun (uh, the bears are small, squishy and fun, not the artists). I have a bear pattern that is currently jointed that I would REALLY like to make unjointed (it's on my to-do list), this bear gives amazing hugs and the only way to make him an even better hugger would be to take the joints out and leave him 100% soft and huggy. I will do this eventually.
As far as price goes... well... to me it would depend on whether the bear is unjointed and simple or unjointed and complex. Lisa Pay's dogs are worth a lot of money. A little beanie type bear is not. I have an unjointed rearing horse pattern that I do that is very difficult to work with, way more difficult than almost all of my jointed animal patterns combined. No way would I put a low price on those just because they are unjointed. I also have a fully jointed horse pattern (not rearing), and while not simple, he is a lot easier to put together than the unjointed horse! Anyway, just food for thought. I got some locline to play with the other day, and I know that they really are designed to be used two ways... one is with regular discs and joints, the other is using the X and Y connectors in what could be an unjointed bear. So, there are a lot of options out there.
Incidentally, I think the line for what is a 'craft' bear has more to do with the implementation than the concept. This could be something along the lines of a badly machine sewn, mass-produced, fur-stuck-in-the-seams, lopsided critter that sells for $5. I have nothing against those bears or the people who make them, but I don't think they quite qualify as artist bears.
Hope this helps!
Kelly
Winneybears and FriendsKelly, Your horses are incrediable., that headless horseman is a wonderful piece, your so talented ! ..I have been wanting to design a horse for a long time.. Winney
Back Road BearsThanks, girls! :hug:
Just have ideas swimming around in my head.... as always.
Perhaps they needed some direction to go in.
Can't say you've given me that 
HA! as any of the ideas I have are still original, acceptable by TOBY anyway, and fit our idea of artist made.
After my last show, this past weekend, I'm seeing that folks are definitely into handmade original works of art but just aren't forking over the money. Especially with bears...... as one mother put it to her child:
"You won't be able to play with it, it's too special, so it would have to sit on your shelf and I'm not paying $150 for a dust collector, sorry honey!"
I did sell a few bears and over a dozen bear sized quilts but all in all, given the thousands who came through the doors, I didn't do too well.
As I need to take it easy on my hands, want to keep making bears yet need to find that niche where they'll actually SELL I've been coming up with easier, thefore less pricey, yet still creative bear designs.
We shall see what happens.......
Thank you for your encouragement.
LuxembearsHi Daphne, If I could add my two cents here.....
If you design a soft sculpture animal/bear, then it is your artist bear. Whether or not it is jointed does not matter as long as it is your original design. How elaborate you make it can only add to the appeal but won't change the "artist bear" status of your design.
Unfortunately the word "art" is a very open term. What makes something art? You could dip your dogs tail into piant and place a canvas behind him while he wags his tail....and call it art. To me this would not be art, but for many it is.
For me, true art takes my breath away.
I have seen seen many designs that are non-jointed. Kosen makes non-jointed bears and they are fabulous. I have one and it is so well done, it looks real.
Posts: 3,177I don't know how i missed this posting but i did and i can't believe it!!!!
I am in the middle of mucking about with a couple of patterns, one for a cat and one for a bear - both are unjointed!
OOOOOOH SPOOKY! :o
I started the cat pattern nearly 9 months ago, i cut out and pinned a crash test dummy of it and it has stayed like that ever since, then all of a sudden i thought i'd have another go at it and here we are discussing unjointed bears!
This is that zeitgeist thingy again is'nt it? Strange how people miles apart, never meeting can get their thoughts to coincide like this - gosh i love people!
Of course it's art, the same as jointed bears - infact i think that i have put more hours into this unjointed cat pattern than my jointed bears as it is harder to get all the body contours in the right place. I WILL finish it, just don't know when.
Penny :dance:
