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momanimallover Aug 15, 2010

Just had another thought.  You might have already thought of this but, if not, I'd like to know what you think...

Kitty is the old, "top cat" and Julius is the second in command.  Right?
Do you think that Julius knows that Kitty is getting up there in years and is beginning to make a play for the "top cat" position?

Kitty is 13 years old.  Even though cats can live a long time, at 13, he's still an old man.  Julius is a big 25-pounder.  He might be thinking he should be in charge.  If so, he probably thinks you are paying attention to the wrong cat.  His behavior could be nothing more than a call for attention in order to receive treatment as "top cat" from you.

Now, Kitty is still top cat until he says otherwise.  He's trying to keep his position.
Whenever Julius comes into his territory, he'll try to make his presence known by scent marking.  Julius, thinking Kitty should let him be in charge comes along and makes a mess on top of Kitty's mess in order to "erase" his rival's mark.

Do you remember in grade school when kids would write things on the blackboard when the teacher wasn't looking?
One kid would write his name on the board but, a minute later, some other kid would sneak in and write, "...is a jerk!" after it.  Then the first kid would cross that out and write, "...is GREAT!"

What happens when the teacher comes back into the room?  She erases the blackboard and makes both kids go sit in the corner.

You could be right! I've been giving Kitty more attention too since his surgery and I do favour him because he's aging and hasn't been doing that great. After his dental and tumors removed he's still soo skinny, I can feel every bone down his back and the vet has no answers for me. the blood work all came back normal and he's not diabetic or anything else that they have found but there has to a reason because he eats good and has slowed down alot you would think he would be gaining.
Here's a picture of the old boy that we are discussing

So, basically, you've got two grade school kids writing their names on the blackboard, trying to get one-up on each other, erasing things and writing over top of each other.

Well, YOU are the teacher.  You're going to erase the blackboard and send BOTH kids to the principal's office.    

I guess the question is how to do that.

Erasing the blackboard is the easy part...  clean up the pee.  (I didn't say it would be fun...  )
But, what can we do to appropriately discipline both cats?  I don't know.  That's where somebody who speaks "Cat" comes in. 

If we were talking about dogs, I'd make them BOTH sleep in the garage for a while and only let them in the house one at a time until I have established the fact that *I* am the owner of the house and that *I* am the only one who gets to say who is allowed to come inside and when they are allowed to come inside.  If either one of them acted up, both of them might find themselves outside.

Basically, treat them like fifth graders. 

For cats, the specifics will be different.  Maybe you don't make them sleep in the basement.  Maybe you lock one in the bathroom for an hour and then lock the other one in the bathroom for an hour, taking turns until they both understand that you are the boss.

Anyway...  That's just an idea...  I don't know...  Just thinking out loud.  :)

momanimallover Aug 15, 2010

I lost everything i wrote about what you said! anyway, that's a pic of the oldest cat Kitty I'll post it again tomorrow

kezjoy Aug 15, 2010

ugh..what a stinky problem. to help him in his crate, you could try putting an old towel in with him, then at least it soaks into the towel and isn't all over him.

Ive tried feliway to stop my neutered male cat stop spraying, but it did nothing here either. We did use some tranquilizers with good effect from the vet, but we didn't like drugging him up...from my research due to the same sort of isse, it usually is because of another cat making them uncomforatble, so if they are living together then the best solutions are really to have an outdoor cat run or rehome.. you could try forcing them together in a  small room over a few days..but it seems mean if they really don't get along. hopefully your vet will have some suggestions..good luck!!
Kerrilyn

Us Bears Aug 15, 2010

Kitty is definitely a fine looking cat but, clearly, he is an old man.

I'm sure he's still got game but, probably, not as fast as he used to be.
His surgery and his age are probably catching up to him.  His weight loss might just be natural due to old age.

It probably isn't the whole problem but I feel confident that some of this problem is because you are seeing a "changing of the guard."

Don't think of it as Kitty being "dethroned."  Think of it as Kitty training Julius to be his successor.
Kitty will fade off into the background to enjoy his retirement years while Julius takes over the job of Top Cat.

That's exactly what people do.  Don't you think?
We train our successor.  We retire and take some time to enjoy our golden years while the younger generation keeps the business running.  That's how we ensure the long term success of our species.  Cats aren't much different.  Maybe the process is different but the concept is the same.

The problem is that you're stuck in the middle of this and, unfortunately, it's messy.  :(
But, like it or not, you're knee-deep in this soap opera.  What can you do about it?
Sorry, but I don't have any specifics but I do think you should be the guide to this process.

I don't think you should take charge but I think you can help shepherd it along.
Don't try to make cats go against their nature but you can certainly set boundaries for their behavior and enforce those rules.
If ANY cat breaks the rules they should be punished or handled appropriately.  (Put outside, locked in the bathroom, hollered at, etc, etc.)  Praise and care and guidance are also necessary.

I can only suggest that you watch out for favoritism and try to treat them all equally until they reestablish a new pecking order.

Surely, Kitty is your "bestest cat" but he's not going to be around forever.  Julius is going to have to take his place.

But, do you know what?  I don't think I have ever really "lost" a pet.  They may have passed away in body but they live on in spirit.
I think the best part about having a pet is the stories you can tell after they are gone.

Here's a picture of my "bestest dog" from years ago. 

"Tyrone von Schwartz"

He's been gone for more than 20 years.  He was 14 or 15 years old when he died.  You can see that he was an old man in this picture because of his cloudy eyes.  (Schnauzers are a bit more prone to get cataracts in old age.) It's kind of sad to look at his picture at first but just looking at that picture brings back all sorts of memories and stories about him.  It's almost like he is still here.  Tyrone still lives on in my heart.

I guess, aside from regulating the cats' behavior, I don't know that there is much you can do beside be a good referee.  It might be hard to handle right now but the memories will be worth it in the end.

boohbears Aug 16, 2010

Brenda,
I understand what you mean about your oldest male peeing on himself in the crate.  My oldest male does that, too.  He is 16 and is so afraid of the crate, the car ride and mostly the vet that he pees.   I have found that if I remove his water bowl after dinner the night before I take him to the vet, he doesn't pee on himself in the crate as he doesn't have anything left to pee.  I feel bad for the other cats not getting water the night before his appt. but it's the only way I can keep him from peeing on himself in the crate.  It has worked for him the past couple times we have gone to the vet.
Good luck.
Hugs,
Janice

momanimallover Aug 16, 2010

I like the pic of your dog I lost my last dog 5 years ago, sadly they have to leave us sometime but never prepared when it actually happens. There was no cat spray today! I.m trying to give Julius more pets and affection but it's so hard when he such a brat at times, lol. Thanks for everyones input in my naughty boy! Oh, by the way I bought another litter box so hopefully that will help with Julius