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I know someone who continues to make bears from other artists patterns and then sells them.
She is making a considerable amount of money and I've told her a number of times that she can't do this. She told me that she has created a few patterns on her own but 90% of the bears she sells
are from other artists patterns.
Should I just turn away and ignore it or what? Advise needed.
Gresswell Forest BearsIf you know the artists who's patterns she is ripping off then I'd let them know.
I do almost fall on the side of name & shame but I have been the person who was ripped off in the past so i may be a bit hard on this issue.
Past Time BearsOoh - oh dear - that is a dilemma. Is she, by any chance, giving the artist credit for the pattern when she sells (which is acceptable) or is she presenting the bear as her design? More than likely, the patterns are copyrighted by the artists and they could bring charges against her. At the very least, the artists who are responsible for designing the patterns should know what she is doing and be given the chance to warn her. Do you know who they might be?
I'm not entirely sure who's patterns are being used. I do know the name of one of the patterns so it isn't hard to find out the artist. It just upsets me that I have had this discussion with her on at least 2 occasions and she just ignores me. And I guess because she kind of brags about all the money and orders she is getting is what really upsets me.
She doesn't give the artist credit but on the same note I don't think she advertises that she's designed them either. If I do find out who's patterns she continues to use I will try to contact the artists.
Jane,
She is walking a dangerous path. SHe probably thinks she is safe because most artists won't go through the fight of taking her to court. But if any of the artists that she is stealing from have sold, or are in the process of selling some of their patterns to a larger company, they will definitely take her to court and it would be for a large claim of damage. I've have seen it happen when I worked with large toy companies.
PennsylvaniaIf the woman paid a royalty to the designer of the pattern, she might be in the clear.
It doesn't necessarily have to be money, either. It could be a small, lump sum, a percentage of the selling price or it could even be as simple as giving credit where credit is due. It's whatever the designer agrees to.
How much did the pattern cost? If I was this Bearmaker, I'd multiply the cost of the pattern by the number of Bears that were sold and just send the designer a check for that amount. Then I would negotiate for an ongoing agreement. Okay, in reality, I wouldn't have done it. But, in hindsight, this is what I would do.
If it was a free pattern, I would just make up a round number, depending on the number of Bears.
Now, if she sold one or two Bears or even a half dozen of them using that pattern, I would be inclined to let it slide. But, if she's making a business out of using somebody else's design for her own gain, I am not in favor.
There's nothing wrong with using a pattern to learn from. But there comes a time when, to make an honest business, you need to branch out and do your own design work. If you are building a business from other peoples' patterns, you're being lazy. You're not doing yourself any favors and you're not growing your business.
Royalties, copyright and fair recognition aside, I would feel all right with letting this issue slide if the Bearmaker just stopped using the "borrwed" pattern and started making her own designs.
Back Road BearsArtist patterns are copyright protected. A person can only make and sell bears for profit from a pattern if the artist states it is ok on the pattern or the artist provides an individual with written permission. There are no shades of grey. Simply giving another artist credit for the design is not enough if there is no agreement with the artist to use their patterns for profit in the first place. I publish my copyright patterns. If I suddenly got a check in the mail as royalities for someone using my pattern for profit without my permission to start with I would NOT be happy and the bearmaker would be hearing from my lawyer. She could very well be sued for her disregard to copyright laws. While most artists probably wouldn't take it to that extreme the possibility is there.
It is sad that some people have such poor business ethics. How can someone be so pleased with themselves and their success when someone else did all the work for them. She is stealing from another artist and profitting from it. Plain and simple.
I agree that notifying the artists who made the patterns she is using and profitting from is a good route to take. Let them send her a cease and decist letter if they choose.
Posts: 70I am currently using someones pattern to help me learn how to create my own. I agree that using someone elses helps you learn and I will say that it is hard to do. I have an old book that teaches about patterns plus I'm going to go to the library and get a few more books about patterns so I can learn even more. I have created a pattern for a bears paw that I think is cute and the pattern isn't perfect but it's mine!
My problem is, is that I better the pattern I just made that I say is mine, someone else has created to, so how is it "mine" or how is it "theirs". I have read about people having the same pattern for something and they claim it's theirs so how do you prove that it's yours and if you buy a book with a pattern in it and it doesn't say you can't sell it why can't you use it for profit? Just curious about this part.
This whole pattern thing is very confusing. I wouldn't want someone taking my stuff either and using it for profit so how to we make sure that no one steals it. OR How can I say you took that from me when they might have had the same idea and did the exact same thing? How can you tell?
Hopefully your friend will realize she is wrong.
PennsylvaniaI never said I thought it was all right. As a matter of fact, I said that I thought it was wrong. However, once the cat is out of the bag, what are you going to do?
I said a certain amount of forgiveness would be in order if it was done once or twice or even a few times but I never meant that it would be all right if it was only done a few times.
I never meant to give the impression that sending the person a check out of the blue would make things all right. I just assumed that people would understand my meaning.
No, if you really want to keep using the pattern you need to talk to the person who designed it. Not e-mail. Either a letter by mail or by phone. Talk to the person and tell them what's been going on and make an offer. The amount I talked about was a suggestion. Without knowing more details about the situation, I think it would have been a fair amount.
The point I was trying to make was that one can get a certain amount of forgiveness for things they have done if they are just honest about it, even if it's after the fact.
Stand up. Talk to the person. Tell them what happened. Make a fair offer and let the discussion go from there.
Back Road BearsMommabear - I think a majority of us learned by using someone else's patterns to start with. In fact when a new bear maker wants to learn to design their own I often suggest that they take someone's pattern and make changes to the gusset, leg shape, etc. to see how those changes work up. It's a great way to understand how pattern pieces fit and how changes in curves/shape can effect the end result.
Books are copyright protected, that covers everything in the book, including patterns and photos. If the author allows the use of his/her patterns for sale/profit it will say so in the book. If written permission isn't given the user should not assume it's ok to make and sell bears from that pattern.
It is very possible for more than one person to come up with an identical or nearly identical pattern. They could be complete strangers on opposites ends of the earth! The thing is... they each came up with it on their own. They worked to come up with that design. It is their's. They didn't copy each other nor did they go around seemingly bragging (publicly or privately) about it being someone else's pattern as the person Jane knows seems to be doing. There is a big difference.
Posts: 2,203I would assume if she gives credit where it is due, she is ok.
Gresswell Forest BearsMost patterns will specifically say do not reproduce this pattern for distribution or sell items made from this pattern or words to that effect.
If they don't then the author of the pattern didn't think things through.
I'd argue that the original designers should still be told so they can close this loophole in the future.
Depending on where you live the laws are different but the moral implications stay the same.
What she is doing hurts others, artists will be less willing to share, sell or teach if people are going to rip them off for personal gain.
PennsylvaniaI would assume if she gives credit where it is due, she is ok.
The person who makes the pattern sets the terms. If the designer agrees to credit where credit is due then, yes, it's okay. If the designer wants money, it is her right to ask for it.
I agree with janicemarie. It is smart for the designer to put her terms on each pattern. If you give permission for others to reproduce the design, if you want to be notified or if you want to be paid, put it right on the pattern. In case of problems, there will be no ambiguity, that way.
Regardless of the designer's terms, it is important for the person making a Bear from the pattern to know what those terms are and stick to them. If the designer says it's okay to produce Bears for adoption, then, all right.
Then, no matter what the designer's terms are, whether or not you obey the terms or even agree to them, it would be smart for the Bearmaker to contact the designer and talk about your plans. Who knows? If you are friendly with the designer you could forge a good relationship. If you don't respect the designer, you could end up with an enemy.
Making enemies isn't very Bearlike!
Last month this topic was discussed in the Tips & techniques section (Look for the thread, Pattern Originality and Copyright).
I found it interesting and insightful.
Becky
Posts: 70Thank you, all of this info is very encouraging and eye opening.
Gresswell Forest BearsHere is the link to the previous discussion.
http://www.teddy-talk.com/viewtopic.php?id=892
I also wonder if this person sells on bearpile, or promotes her work through any industry magazines etc. I'm sure these organisations would be interested to know she was not creating from her own pattern.
Sorry if I'm coming off bitter on this topic, I just had the case where someone stole my work rubbed in my face again. It's possible this is colouring my response.
Hi Jane,
I sell several of my patterns and I tell the buyer that I don't mind if they sell the item they made from my pattern but I would appreciate design credit. I have sold over 100 of my patterns in the past few years and as far as I know, only one artist gave me credit! On the other hand, I have a few favorite artists who sell their patterns and when I make and sell something using their designs, I give them credit. I always change their patterns a bit but still give them credit for the original design. It is a shame the person you are talking about doesn't give credit where credit is due.
Hugs,
Janice
Teacup TeddiesIt is a shame to hear that this person is not only taking credit for another's work, but sees no shame in it and brags about it. I personally would feel dissatisfied with my critters if I knew that their design was not my own. She is simply making bears, and is missing out on the joy and satisfaction of creating them.
Is she a friend of yours? If you haven't done so already, I would advise that you warn her before reporting her. Tell her how strongly you feel, and that you feel it is your responsibility to report her if she does not change her ways.
Hey Mommabear! I just thought I'd add that using other people's patterns is a great way to familiarise yourself with the basic components of a ted! It is natural that through doing this, you will find some bear sizes/features/shapes more agreeable than others and will endeavour to create a bear pattern of your own to achieve this. As far as i know it is ok to draw inspiration from others' patterns- but the pattern drawing must be your own :-p
I personally loved the style of bear that one artist used. The bears were very chubby and babyish- just what I was going for! She sold her pattern, and I resisted buying it because I really wanted the bears to be my own. I researched pattern pieces and created a pattern with lots of darts. I eventually obtained the desired result, and can rest in the knowledge that, whilst inspiredby her work, the baby bear that I made is completely my own. I'm sure that mine is also a different size and shape to hers. I hope this helps :-) xx
When I gave up bear making five or so years ago, I decided to sell off a lot of my patterns. An 'artist' bought one or two of them and then lo and behold there were my bears staring up at me from various places all with her name on them. When I contacted her and told her that I wasn't happy to not have had the credit given to me she told me that as she had made one or two minute changes to the pattern it was now not my work but hers! If I had had the money I would have taken it further!!!! I have a real bee in my bonnet on copying it drives me nuts, but it is very hard to prove someone is copying your work even if they have bought the pattern from you. As I have no desire to make any enemies I left it alone but I will NEVER sell my patterns again!!
Posts: 751Jane, This woman's bears - although they are someone else's pattern - are they actually recogniseable as this artists bears.
I have used other peoples patterns but they have ended up as un-recognisable - even by the person who designed them :crackup: .
Please don't have a go at me though - I have made them for my own entertainment and NOT sold them. I have made a Barbara Ann Bear pattern (who I have called Ursula) who is definately identifiable as a Barbara Ann bear - and I am VERY thankful for Barbara's generosity in making this pattern available.
I also do design my own bears and one pattern that I expect some of you might know is Oakley Fabrics OAKLEY BEAR but this was done in the knowledge that other people would be able to reproduce this bear for sale and profit.
There was also another well known artist who made her patterns available to Oakley Fabrics but would never tell the pattern buyer how to acheive the style of bears in her instructions.
Then of course there is the wonderful Gregory who informed the class that anyone could use his class pattern because IF someone wanted a Gregory they would come to HIM not some imitation of one (LOVE that attitude!).
Karon
PennsylvaniaI don't understand why people use a pattern but don't, at very minimum, give credit to the designer.
I inherited all of my father's old photographic negatives. They are my property. I have the right to do with them as I see fit. Even then, I would still never make a print from one of his negatives without crediting him.
Making a pattern for a Bear is like making a photographic negative. Making a Bear from a pattern is like making a print from a negative. Making a Bear from somebody else's pattern is like making a print from somebody else's negative.
At least 50% of photography is done in the darkroom, standing in front of developing trays and working under dim, red light but that's the part that people never see. By the same token, at least 50% of making a Bear is working out the pattern, sitting at the drawing table, puzzling out how the Bear should look. That is the part of Bearmaking that people don't see.
I understand that new Bearmakers probably won't understand how to make a Bear unless they use a pre-made pattern. It's the same as I teach my nephews how to make prints using one of my negatives. You've got to start somewhere. Right?
But, there comes a time when the nephews want to make their own negatives and create their own prints from them. There should also come a time when the amateur Bearmaker wants to branch out and make their own Bear patterns. That's how the photographer grows, just as the Bearmaker grows.
The very first photographs that I printed were made from my father's negatives. That's how I got started but, today, I would never print one of his negatives without crediting him.
When somebody makes a Bear from somebody else's pattern, the very least that should be done is to credit the designer. How about naming the Bear after the designer? You could make the Bear's middle name be the designer's initials. Something like "Snuggles T. Huggabear." ("T" stands for "Thingumy," for instance.)
Newcastle, OntarioI'm with you Bry - this is exactly why I will NEVER sell one of my patterns, even if I decide to quit bearmaking. They are mine and always will be. Saves a ton of stress. 
I'm positive that she doesn't give any credit to any of the artists which patterns she uses. I think her rationale is that because we live in a small community who will ever find out and what are they going to do!
Some of her creations I can tell which pattern she is using and some I'm not sure.
As an artist I'm frustrated that she isn't trying to follow the 'unspoken rule' so to speak. I know that some artists specifically state on their designs that you cannot make the bears for profit and some don't - I think she is the type of person would ignore this anyways!
I'm just upset and frustrated and the next time I see her I will mention again that she should be designing her own patterns if she is going to be selling them and I will ask her if she has permission from the artist if she is selling creations from their patterns.
Some people just don't get it and what upsets me the most is that she is making a fairly good dime on the backs of others!!
