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rkr4cds Dec 19, 2011

I'm really of mixed emotions. Wishing to give them their space, and privacy...
Have we learned all we can about black bears?
When is enough - too much?
Just how angry were some of those northern hunters that the bears were receiving all of that attention, that some have been deciding to purposefully seek out the featured bears and eliminate them?
Though uncollared, Hope wasn't the first - and probably isn't the last...

The camera has been installed as of the weekend for Lily and Faith in a 7' deep rock den. I did lose a lot of 'heart' and enthusiasm in September and haven't gained it back yet; I stopped reading the Daily Updates after Hope's death (murder.)

I was one of the daily voters for their Park system in MN too, in the Reader's Digest contest this past year.
If Lily gives birth again in January I may decide to watch - but for now---- I don't know.

http://www.bear.org/livecams/lily-faith-cam.php
Click the yellow arrow, watch the advert.
They're usually most active around noon-ish Midwest time.

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dangerbears Dec 20, 2011

I can understand the mixed emotions, Bobbie, and I'm absolutely dismayed by the petty jealousy that's been aroused in some of the "locals" around Ely (including the complete dismissal of the thousands and thousands of hours people spent voting in the last Pepsi contest).

Lily isn't pregnant, so she won't be giving birth in January. Personally, I was really happy yesterday just to see that Faith and Lily seem to have bonded well. (In September, it hadn't really happened yet.) I do hope they enjoy these few months that remain for them to be together.

All in all, I still support the research, and I admire the heck out of Lynn and Sue for their determination to change people's fear and ignorance toward black bears. On the other hand, there is an uncomfortable element of show biz (?) involved in keeping public attention on them. Anyway...yeah, I'll be watching.

Becky

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rkr4cds Dec 20, 2011

All in all, I still support the research, and I admire the heck out of Lynn and Sue for their determination to change people's fear and ignorance toward black bears. On the other hand, there is an uncomfortable element of show biz (?) involved in keeping public attention on them.

I'm in total agreement w/you here.. I guess that's what I was trying to say, around the lump in my throat!

I missed the fact that Lily isn't expecting; when and how was that determined? Can you tell that I haven't been following their stories???

I did note that there's a DenCam in with - 'Honey & Lucky' (to be activated soon) so I guess that means Ted's on his own this winter... Honey has finally decided to be sociable after all????? LLLLL

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desertmountainbear Dec 20, 2011

I don't think I will watch this year.  I am still receiving newsletters, so if I hear there is lots of action maybe I will go peek.  To be honest I do not want to become attached to Faith.  I was in love with Hope, even after the new cubs were born it was her my attention was still focused on.  All the grief and sadness just surrounding that whole site this fall was more than I could handle. 

Becky I am not aware of the Pepsi thing, and jealousy going on there, can you tell me more? 

Joanne

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lovenshire Dec 20, 2011

No, I will not watch.  I really admire what they are doing but my heart is still breaking over Hope and I can't take a chance like that again!

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dangerbears Dec 20, 2011

I missed the fact that Lily isn't expecting; when and how was that determined?

She was with Hope and Faith all summer. They were nursing, so Lily didn't go into estrus and she didn't spend any time with a male.

Becky I am not aware of the Pepsi thing, and jealousy going on there, can you tell me more?

It was the voting for the Soudan underground mine park. As you know, many people voted their fingers off for two whole months! (if I remember correctly) Managed to win second place and a lot of money, and last year Bear Head park won first place and even more money. Then the DNR head issued statements about winning the contest to the press that included no mention of Lily's fb fans or of the WRI or NABC. It was as if it were a lucky fluke that this little park in a remote area of northern MN had won a national contest! After strong reactions from the Lily fans, the DNR head finally wrote a thank-you note to Dr. Rogers, which was included in an update on fb. (I'll be surprised if there's another win for an Ely-area park in the future.)

Becky

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Barling Bears Dec 20, 2011

Hi everyone,

I have been one of those happy daily followers of all the antics going on with Lily, Hope and all of the other bears.  Obviously I was devastated whenever there was tragic and sad news concerning the bears, especially little Jason and Hope, and tears flowed for many days and still do on occasions when I think of certain things.  It was hard reading some of the updates from the Centre, more tears flowed, but I am pleased that I continued because it's helpful to read other opinions, hear of how other people were feeling, it all helps with the "healing" process. 

Like most people, I have lost very dear little pets.  Though they are no longer around, you still love them and they will always remain in your heart.  But that doesn't stop you from continuing to fall in love and I just know that there will be other little bears that will tug at our heart strings once again.  So I for one am delighted that the webcam is back up and running so that we can observe Lily and Faith and I am also very pleased that she is not pregnant this year as attentions can now be turned to observing how a mother and her yearling react during hibernation without the worries of newborns.

I do agree though that maybe some things should be done on a lower key, maybe less "advertising" of certain events and just continue with various things more discretely, if that's at all possible in this day and age.

The camera on Ted and Lucky last year was priceless, better than any comedy on TV at times, especially with Lucky and his sticks and rocks!  (poor Ted did suffer!) He's adorable and so funny.  How he will react with Honey this year should be interesting!

So, in a nutshell, I will be glued! 

Hugs to all,

Marilyn x

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DENBY30 Dec 20, 2011

I will be watching again, how can you not.  Yes the death of Hope was devistating.  But If we do not give our support to Dr Rogers, that will mean an end to a lot of the research that he does.  We really did alot for that orginization with our voting and donating.  There will never be another Hope, but we still have more to learn.  So please do not give up on the North American Bear Center and the live cams.
Sincerely,
Pat

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lemon wolf bear 1 Dec 20, 2011

I'm with you Marilyn and Pat!!       Susan.

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thumperantiques Dec 20, 2011

I'm afraid I'm with Joanne.  I still check in on their page occasionally - more like every couple of weeks instead of daily , like I used to.  I am truly of the opinion that the more attention is put on these bears, the more likely they are to be harmed.  People all have their own opinion and though I am against hunting, who am I to tell someone else they shouldn't do it.  People will follow their on path, no matter how much we dislike it.  So, I can't get caught up in another tragedy with the bears - I just can't do it.  I appreciate those of you who can  - I hope you enjoy your time watching, I really do.  I wish a long and happy life for Lily and Faith - it's just not for me anymore.

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Barling Bears Dec 20, 2011

Hi, back again!

As I said earlier, I will be watching whenever I can, but I can fully understand why some do not wish to.

The work of Dr. Rogers,  Donna, Sue and the mass of workers behind the scenes is to be applauded, :clap:  they work tirelessly throughout the year with hardly a break, all for the good of the bears.  Everyone has learnt such a lot from their findings and research, and they need our support even more now.  I think they were probably more surprised than anyone by the way the initial filming of Hope being born "took off" across the world and the reaction it caused, propelled by the internet.  It all just snowballed from there and has more than likely reached a level unimaginable to them in the first place.

But I personally think it is important to continue to support them.  Without the determination and wonderful spirit of people like Dr. Rogers, the population will become even more ignorant of the wonders of the world in which they live, and miss out of something beautiful.

There are too many horrible things going on in the world.  If there's something beautiful and enriching to watch, then I will grab it with both hands.

Hugs

Marilyn x

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dangerbears Dec 20, 2011

For those who are watching, or who feel differently about watching the captive bears than the wild bears, Lucky and Honey's den cam is now up: http://www.wildearth.tv/nabc-black-bear … am-live-01

Becky

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HeidiBears Dec 21, 2011

I missed what happened last year with the bears since I had just joined Teddy Talk around that time... it is very sad to hear about what happened to Hope... how could anyone be so cruel? I just now checked out Lucky and Honey's den, it is very cool to see the bears in there sleeping but at the same time I don't feel that it is right to invade their privacy. Although, it defiantly could be put into good use for educational purposes.. I plan on being a veterinarian (either for wild or domestic i'm not sure yet) when I get older; I doubt that I would be treating many bears but you never know.. 

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rkr4cds Dec 21, 2011

Everyone has very valid nuggets of belief and truth here in their statements.
Thankfully, we're all on the side of Lyn, Sue and The BEARS!!!
So - - watching or not, their lives will go on.
I wish for them all an uneventful winter season!

I'm also torn both ways and feeling rather powerless....a very uncomfortable position.
Thx for weighing in and validating my feelings; I was feeling rather out-on-a-limb here....and decided to take the plunge and make them known.

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thumperantiques Dec 21, 2011

Bobbie,
     I think you raised some very good points - there is no right or wrong, just what each of us can deal with.  I'm really glad that so much money has been raised to help the NABC get out of debt and do more with their research.  I really think what they are doing is wonderful.  It's just that I still get sick when I think of Hope and I don't think I could deal with losing another animal that we have become so attached to.  So, for my own self preservation, I need to leave this alone.  I also wish Lily and Faith a wonderful winter and long and uneventful lives.

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SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorDec 21, 2011

I, along with many others, have watched the den cams since before Hope was born, got totally invested in and donated as much as my budget would allow to NABC and WRI.  More than that, I got so caught up emotionally with and attached to Lily's family and (to a lesser extent) all the other research bears that any bad news coming from the updates had a profound impact on my life.  As many of you are aware, I have battled with major depression for a long time and when Hope was killed, I spiraled down into that ol' black pit that I've become very familiar with over the years.  I still am trying to emerge from that hole . . . Hope was very dear to me.  She overcame almost impossible odds to survive alone in the forest as a baby cub and became strong, independent, and
smart - an ideal "spokesbear" to show us the real personalities of black bears and how they live in the wild.  Very hard not to give those majestic animals human characteristics and yet some of their behaviors were such that humanity in general could learn a lot of valuable lessons in how to interact with each other from them.  But there came more disturbing realizations for me.  Many of the 'Lilypadders' knew of the Facebook page that had been set up to counteract Lily's FB popularity.  One of their purposes was to disparage Lynn's research as useless and not scientific, they tried to discredit him as a human being, made fun of Lily's followers, made crude remarks about most anything connected with NABC/WRI and their FB page.  And it all got much worse after Hope died - very sick posts.  Now I've been around a long time and I know there are bad people who do awful atrocities worldwide.  I just was so discouraged to observe how insulting, insensitive, crude, and downright mean so-called "good" people can be.  Anything posted as a counter response was ridiculed and the poster was an uneducated so-and-so.  If you've read this far, you've got lots of patience and perseverance!  Hadn't intended to make this a tirade, but guess I'm still upset about the whole incident.  As to how this all applies to the original question in this thread . . . I do read the updates, but very seldom tune in to either den cam.  In time, the hurt and despair may ease.  Meanwhile, I'm putting all my effort, interest in, and attention to the animal sanctuary near where I live.  They house big cats and bears and none of them will ever be harmed.  They are well-cared for and thrive while living out their lives in spacious habitats.  Stepping off soapbox now.

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thumperantiques Dec 21, 2011

SueAnn,
     I read your post with interest, because I knew how involved you had become with the bears.  I also new about your depression, so I wondered how you had dealt with all of the horrible things that happened.  I'm glad you have found a way to still help the animals but also protect yourself.   I think that's really important and I believe if the bears could understand,  they wouldn't want any of us upset over them.  They really just want to lead their lives the way they always have, and that's the main reason I have turned away, along with the realization of how horrid people can really be.   I hope none of the other bears ever has to give up their lives, the way Hope did and I wish you all the enjoyment in the world, from your time with your local sanctuary.

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desertmountainbear Dec 21, 2011

SueAnn,  I totally agree with every word you have said here.  It was the cruelty that I witnessed towards mankind, using the animals as pawns that hurt me so much that I needed to turn away.  I am so glad you have found something to be able focus your good energy on. 

Joanne

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Barling Bears Dec 21, 2011

SueAnn, you poor love, I am so sorry to hear that the events had such a bad effect on you and I can imagine it was difficult for you to write your post feeling as you do. :hug:  :hug:  :hug:

But horrors, I had absolutely no idea about the other Facebook page you mentioned ...... I'm lost for words.     I really don't understand some people at all and the way they behave and act.  They're sick.  I am sure that if I had been unfortunate enough to come across their comments, I too would probably be finding the whole thing "tainted" and avoiding certain things.  But I can always see both sides to any matter and I guess that because I haven't been aware of this other horrid Facebook page, I can look upon it in a different light maybe, meaning that if general follower numbers or Lilyfans etc decline in a dramatic way, then those b*****s have won. 

Thank heavens for animal lovers and all those wonderful people who care for our little creatures in so many different ways and "good on you" SueAnn for helping at your local animal sanctuary.  Long may you stand on your soapbox!!

Take care. 
Hugs,

Marilyn :hug:

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorDec 22, 2011

Thank you Brenda, Joanne, and Marilyn for your thoughtful comments - I appreciate you all very much.  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug: