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New York StateHi, I haven't been on here for several months. I just started using bolts and locknuts with disks and cotter pins for the joints in my bears. I have to appologize from a few months ago when someone asked if she should stuff the joints before finishing putting the limbs on or after. Well, I have learned last night that I should have put the limbs on before stuffing them. I am using the locknuts type of joints for this bear and I am having a hard time getting them the right snugness for moving the limbs. I thought it could be done either way a few months ago when I was using plastic safety joints. I am learning. Any help from others on how to get the bolts and locknuts tighter would be appreciated. Thanks. Ruth
Ruth, do you mean "how to get the cotter pins tighter"? (To get the nuts and bolts tighter, just give them another turn clockwise.)
With any joints, trimming away the pile in the joint area also helps to give a snug fit.
Becky
Well I stopped using nut and bolt joints a while back, but when I did use them I would to set the disc washer and bolt using super glue to make a firm bond. Then I would stuff the limb and ( when the joint is set) place the joint in position and close the opening. Then using a nut driver to tighten the locknut I would then attach the limb to the body...nine times out of ten the glued joint would hold enough to tighten perfectly...but occasionally it wouldn't which then meant undoing the opening and using 2 nut drivers one each side to tighten. That 1 in 10 was enough of an irritation to make me revert to cotter pins. That said , on bigger bears I think locknut joints are what I would use. But you do need to tighten so that they are fairly stiffly jointed as they do loosen off.
Donna's Duin BruinsLike Jenny I had my share of glued discs that failed. I then discovered set screws or grub screws. With the set screw you can stuff and close the seams on the arms, legs and head before attaching to the body. And you can get a good tight joint with them. Many artist like to let the joint rest for several hours or over night to let everything settle. Sometimes the joint will need just a bit more tightening after sitting.
I only use cotter pins for bears under 6" because I have trouble getting the joints consistent and turning the cotter pins hurts my wrists, even with a cotter key.
New York StateHi, thank you for the suggestions. I don't think I explained myself very well at first. I just finished a bear using the locknuts and bolts. Boy, that was hard to get them to tighten up. I am not sure about using them. Plus the kind that I purchased the hole was a little too small for the bolt to fit through, so I had to keep turning it to get the disk on. I also discovered that to use this kind of joints I have to attach the limbs to the body first. I wasn't so sure about the head, but I finished the head, then I had a hard time attaching it to the body to make a snug fit. I think it is snug enough. I also used the cotter pins on another bear I recently made. I, too, had a hard time getting them tight and down far enough for the fit that I wanted, but I think the bear came out okay. I guess I was just trying to figure out what is easier to use for most bear makers, because so far I haven't liked either of them. I am so used to putting my bears together with the plastic safety joints. They are so easy, but not good for artist quality bears to get the snug joints. I was using the plastic safety joints to make the bears child safe. Most of my bears are going to children. My friends are purchasing my bears for children, so I need to make them safe for that reason. I do want to get into the artist quality bears, though, that is why I am looking for a better quality joint system.
Ruth, did you buy your nuts and bolts from a teddy-bear supplier? Intercal and Edinburgh (both in the US) can help you with those, whereas the zillion things they have at the hardware store can be tricky.
Personally, I use a cotter-pin joint for the head (since it only requires access from one end). Other people glue a bolt and washer to a disk to put insode the head, which offers that same advantage. Then I use locknuts and bolts for the limbs. I assemble the bear before I completely fill the limbs, so I have access to both ends (the nut and the bolt). I use socket wrenches (in two sizes - one for the nut and one for the bolt) to tighten, and I rotate each limb to see if I've gotten it too loose or too tight, and then adjust. (It takes a bit of practice to know just how tight. Figure that it's going to be a bit easier to rotate the limb once it's stuffed completely and closed.) I've been known to open up a bear and a limb after completion in order to get that right.
There are also set screws for jointing, which someone else will have to explain.
Becky
The Littlest ThistleI only glue the head bolt, and I don't use lock nuts on the head, just regular nuts, but I use two to get the lock nut effect Sometimes on the head I use the cotter pin wobble joints, but they're actually pretty easy to attach. For the limbs I just use a socket set at one end and a spanner at the other, then I finish stuffing the limbs after that. I like my bears to stand though, and I don't think you can get cotter pins reliably tight enough for that.
desertmountainbearI am like Becky and when I would joint the head I would use a cotter pin and lock nuts and bolts in the limbs. The cotter pin the the head so that the neck could be closed and then I would roll the cotter pin down with a pair of needle nose pliers, they to me work the best. I have a cotter pin roller and can not get it as tight as with the pliers.
I leave an opening in the limbs in the back of the leg, I use a screw driver to turn the bolt as I hold the locknut in place with a small wrench inside the body. Works great.
bingle bearsI'm like Joanne and Becky. I use a cotter pin for the head (actually I make a wobble joint) and locknuts for the limbs. I love how it works, because I can get the joint to just the right tightness I want with a screwdriver and a socket wrench. Of course, I do this before sewing up the leg and arm seams. 
TC Folk OriginalsI am a set screw fan. You never need access to the end of the screw that is in the head, arm or leg. I use them for all the joints, including the head. The screw has one end that is flat and the other end has a hex hole for use with a hex wrench. It uses two lock nuts, one on each end. You put a lock nut on the flat end of the screw and screw it down until the screw is one or two threads above the lock nut. Put on a washer and disk, and put that thru the joint hole in the arm or leg. Stuff and close the limb. Insert the screw sticking out of the limb into the joint hole on the unstuffed body from the outside, then on the inside of the body, put the other disk and washer on the hole end of the screw. Put the second nut on the end of the set screw that has the hole. Put a ratchet wrench that fits the screw on the nut. While holding the ratchet in one hand, put the hex wrench into the hole on the screw with the other hand. Hold the hex stable and use the ratchet wrench to tighten the nut down. I like this method because you can take the nut off by reversing the procedure and removing the limb if it is not in the right place. Just put the nut back on and tighten again! Assemble the set screw the same way for the head after you have stuffed it, closing the head by whichever method you prefer (fabric disk, running stitch, etc.) and leaving the hole end of the screw sticking out. Attach it to the body and put the other lock nut on in the same manner as for the limbs. The set screws come in lots of sizes from 3/4" to 1 1/2" in length. They are 1/8" or 1/4" in diameter. You can buy these at most teddy supplies and they tell you which sizes of wrenches you need for the size of set screws you are using. If you should need longer ones, you can buy then up to 3" long at hardware stores, but you must get 1/4" diameter with a 20 thread count. Hope I have pleaded my case well for the set screws!!!!!
New York StateThanks for all the suggestions. I just purchased a simple set from CR's Crafts. I didn't have to buy in bulk, and I just wanted to try them because of not using them before. I am trying another bear right now with the cotter pins. I think I will get the hang of one of the methods the more I use them. I do think the locknut and bolts is a more secure hold and a snugger fit for moving the limbs. I think I just need more practice with them, then I can chose which one works better for me. I have never heard of the other way of attaching the limbs with the screws. I can look into that one more, too, and try it out. I will post a picture of the new bear on here when he is done. I think he is going to come out very cute and be one of my better bears I have made so far, I hope. 
i'm a nuts-and-bolts guy myself. I've never been able to get my cotter pins tight enough to suit me. I've even found tiny nuts and bolts (2-56) for smaller bears and critters. I rod-joint 90% of the time, so the limbs get stuffed and closed after they're attached to the body, and I always use both a locknut and a lock washer. it's overkill, but I think it helps compensate if I have to loosen a bolt back up a tad.
Carlyle Bear Co.I never could get a nice crown finish on a cotter pin and it hurt my hands terribly to turn them so I started using locknuts and screws from Intercal a long time ago. I wish there was a way to get a wobble joint with them but if there is I can't figure it out. I use the glue on the one in the head ( I actually have my dad do this because the smell of the E6000 makes me sick and he LOVES doing it-I think he feels like he has a hand in the creating of them) and that way I only need access to the one in the body. To me, Intercal has the easiest section to order locknuts from that I have found and I have purchased them from other suppliers and ended up with the wrong size hole in the disc for the screw.
