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Posts: 110Hello, I'm new, and I'm wondering if any of you could help me with something please. I collect plush dogs of certain breeds, and have long admired the working that goes into them. Now though I'm after a dog breed that I can't really find a realistic plush of, so thought I'd try and make my own:P I want a life-size plush cream pomeranian (a breed I want but can't have), weighted and stuffed to feel as real as possible. I can sew by hand, (might be able to borrow a sewing machine), have already found the 'fur' and know what I want it to look like. I'd also like to put an armature in it so it's pose-able but still cuddly but it's not the be all and end all if I can't. One thing I'm struggling with though is finding or making a pattern of a Pom, and knowing how to attach the head and limbs. I've done some sewing and made alterations to some of the plush dogs I have, but I've not attempted anything like this before (willing to give it a good shot though! :lol:). Is what I want to do possible? Please don't say to make a bear first, I don't want a bear, I want a dog and only a dog. Thank you and sorry for the essay!
You could look for patterns by Lisa Pay or Marilyn Jensen (Springtime Designs).
I won't advise you to make a bear first, but I might suggest that you make a few trial dogs before you cut into your special fur. The skills and techniques that you're talking about don't come to anyone quickly, and while you'll probably treasure your first attempt, it might not look quite the way you're hoping for.
Becky
Posts: 102That's a difficult project, but it's not impossible if you are talented enough.
I was once asked for advice by a newbie, she wanted to make a lifesized lion as her first plushie 
and she did a wonderful job, I was really impressed.
If you want a very realistic pattern I guess you have to make it yourself. I like to make a model of clay and use tin foil to get a pattern of the surface, works like a charm for me.
But for a long haired dog like a Pom I think it would also be okay to just buy a simple dog pattern, but make a test dog out of simple cotton fabric and if nessesary change the pattern to your liking.
In this case I would search for a pattern without joints, because the armature is enough to make it poseable.
The most difficult thing will be the face, you will have to learn a lot of new techniques to make a realistic looking nose, eyelids,...
Sorry for my bad English, I wish you good luck and just ask if you have any questions! 
Past Time Bearshttp://www.pedigreesroyal.com/ Scroll down the page a little and you'll see an adorable pom.
Posts: 102SueAnn, this website wasn't updated since long ago. I'm sure I saw this pom on ebay recently, it was sold by it's new owner. 
Posts: 110Thank you for the replies! 
Dangerbears - looking at the springtime designs site, the papillon looks the most similar to a Pom, altering the ears and making the face out of the same fluff as the body.
Elli - a lifesize lion?! Wow that is really ambitious! For the eyes/ nose, I'm thinking of those quality glass eyes they put in reborn babies, and a nice/ good looking nose off a teddy bear supply site. This is the fur I have found so far that is closest to the colour and length (everything else is too short for a fluffy Pom coat):
https://www.mohairbearmakingsupplies.co … -60mm-pile
My idea was to make the whole dog out of this, then clip the legs/muzzle/ears shorter, using my grooming clippers, just like I would a real dog, will this actually work though?
SueAnn- that artists site is one I contacted a while back asking if she still made dogs to order, and unfortunately she didn't. I didn't know she had patterns though, and that is the type of look I'm wanting, just cuddly and pose-able instead of stuck in a sitting or lying down position.
If I can't get hold of a sewing machine, is this do-able by hand, or would I really need a machine?
This is the fur I have found so far that is closest to the colour and length
You could certainly cut down the pile (e.g. for the face and legs), but it looks as if that particular fur might be darker at the base? it's something you could send an email to ask about.
looking at the springtime designs site, the papillon looks the most similar to a Pom
Just as an FYI, I noticed on Etsy that Marilyn is dealing with something at the moment, so she might not respond to you immediately. You might also find the pattern you're looking for at one of the suppliers if she is "away from her desk." Good luck!
(Maybe here? I'd think her Chihuahua pattern would also work: http://clothdollpatterns.com/patterns3/id42.htm)
(I'm not sure why the link doesn't work, but you can copy and paste it into your browser.)
Becky
Posts: 102My idea was to make the whole dog out of this, then clip the legs/muzzle/ears shorter, using my grooming clippers, just like I would a real dog, will this actually work though?
Yes, that's the easiest way and will look very realistic if the fur is dense enough and the colour at the base is not too different.
I'm thinking of those quality glass eyes they put in reborn babies
I think baby eyes would look strange on a dog, I recommend taxidermy glass eyes.
If I can't get hold of a sewing machine, is this do-able by hand, or would I really need a machine?
I sew everything by hand, even very large animals. It takes longer but I think the result is even better. :)
But if you want to order one, this artist has made a very cute pom recently and takes commissions: http://www.pawtraitbears.com/
Posts: 110Dangerbear - thank you for the links 
. I will send an email about that fur, I hope its not too dark at the base, because I can't find anything any longer in the right colour!
Elli - great, at least I now know that will work! I've had a look for taxidermy glass eyes and your right, they look really different to baby ones :lol:. As I want it to feel realistic, if I put a wire armature in it, will it feel less real? Or would I be best to put the wire deep into the stuffing so you can't actually feel it? I don't want to just stuff it with wadding, I want to weigh the paws, head and body in the way people weigh reborns. That artist's dogs are fantastically real, but sadly out of my price range 
which is why I'm looking to make my own.
Also, seeing as people here will obviously be used to guesstimating how much fabric, can I be cheeky and ask how much do you reckon I'll need? As it goes up a bit the bigger the piece, and I don't really want to pay £35 for a meter if I don't need that much 
.
Posts: 102If you put a strong armature in it (strong enough to hold any pose) the dog will be of course stiff, so you can't cuddle it like a ragdoll (or a real puppy). But I wrap my armatures in batting and/or thick felt before putting them inside the animals, so you don't feel any hard metal under the fur. Then I stuff just a little fiber fill around the armature, because if you stuff it too hard it's not poseable anymore.
How big should the pom be (heigh at withers)? I've seen very small and rather big ones.
Posts: 110If you put a strong armature in it (strong enough to hold any pose) the dog will be of course stiff, so you can't cuddle it like a ragdoll (or a real puppy). But I wrap my armatures in batting and/or thick felt before putting them inside the animals, so you don't feel any hard metal under the fur. Then I stuff just a little fiber fill around the armature, because if you stuff it too hard it's not poseable anymore.
How big should the pom be (heigh at withers)? I've seen very small and rather big ones. :D
Thank you for the advice on the armature .
A real pom is between 7-11" high at the withers, the UK KC state around 9" as ideal, so that's what size I'm aiming for :).
For that size, I'd get a "fat quarter" of a meter. (An 1/8th might even be enough, but if you're not sure, 1/4 would give you leeway to make a mistake, etc.)
I hope we get to see the finished pup! 
Becky
Posts: 102I've looked at the fabric once again and I am afraid it won't look good if you trim it. The backing is freckled, so I think the fur will also look like that at the base.
You should better look for a really unicolored fur like this: https://www.mohairbearmakingsupplies.co … -60mm-pile (in a color fitting for a pom).
Posts: 110Dangerbears - of course I'll post up pics of puppy provided its not a complete disaster
Elli - I see what you mean about the first fur, its darker at the base, so it would look like a sheep once clipped up! 
. The second one you've linked to though, is really nice, actually provided its cream and not pinkish (though that may be my ipad screen), it's probably more like a pom's coat than the other one, which looking at it, would suit something like a golden retriever better.
1/4 is only £12, compared to £35 for a meter, so I'm going to order it so I can see it properly and get started. Now I've thought of doing this, it won't go away and I can't wait to have a go at it!
Just as an aside though, how do you multi quote on here?
Posts: 102It's not only darker, but feckled at the base. You can see that it has light and dark brown hair tufts (don't know if that's the right word to describe it?). They blend together and make the fur look natural, but if you cut it short you can see the same pattern as on the fabric backing (last picture).
I don't know what kind of color "blush" is, but you could ask the seller if it's really pinkish. Maybe they can even send you a little sample piece?
Elli is right about the freckles, but the shop (Lainy, I think) can probably help you find just what you need.
I can't seem to give instructions for inserting quotations without the characters disappearing and looking like a quotation. You might use the Search function to find the instructions?
Becky
Posts: 110It's not only darker, but feckled at the base. You can see that it has light and dark brown hair tufts (don't know if that's the right word to describe it?). They blend together and make the fur look natural, but if you cut it short you can see the same pattern as on the fabric backing (last picture).
I don't know what kind of color "blush" is, but you could ask the seller if it's really pinkish. Maybe they can even send you a little sample piece?
Your right, it is freckled at the base, thanks for telling me as I never spotted that! I've sent an email to them about the colour of the "blush" one, so I'll see what they come back with. They've also got some nice strong cream thread on there which should match it nicely. Now I just need to decide on a pattern!
If you decided to make your own pattern, you could try using this method http://www.deviantart.com/art/Plushie-P … -179305255 its very similar to the method i use for my art dolls and plushies that i can't make a 2d pattern for. the more detailed you make the 3d mock up, the more detail you cna put in your pattern.
for wire armatures have a look at the way art doll armatures are done, such as in this tutorial http://eviecats.deviantart.com/art/Posa … -372765585 . you could also decide to use a plastic ball socket armature, but that is much more expensive.
I make both art dolls as well as fully plush animals, so feel free to ask anything. Im actually in the middle of an ooak chihuahua art doll at the moment.
hope this has helped in some way.
Posts: 102If you decided to make your own pattern, you could try using this method http://www.deviantart.com/art/Plushie-P … -179305255
I do that too, but I use tin foil to get the pattern from the model.
you could also decide to use a plastic ball socket armature, but that is much more expensive.
I love lockline as a backbone, it moves perfectly realistic, but I absolutely can't recommend to use it for the legs. I tried that one time and really regretted it, it was impossible to get the plushie in a natural position. 
Posts: 110SilverClaw - thank you for those links, that tutorial to make a pattern is great! I'm not sure what it means about the right angle bit though :/?
I have found this on google:
http://dollmaker.nunodoll.com/dog/kishu.html
Which is a fairly similar shape to a pom, so I thought maybe I could modify it a bit as it needs thinner/finer legs. I had planned on doing each bit individually (legs/head/body), but maybe doing it the way this person has would be better, then perhaps add in the wire afterwards.
I would love to see pics of your in progress chihuahua!
Elli - I will definitely get some of that lockline as it really looks just like a backbone :lol:. Will the head turn just by putting wire in it, or is there some special device used to do that? I've got a Mill Creek Bears collie and the head moves, but it feels 'wobbly', like its been attached separately somehow.
Posts: 102Mill Creek puppies are sooo cute! 
I guess they have disc joints in the neck (and legs?) to make them poseable, most artist teddy bears also have them. They are easy to use, but I don't like them because they don't look realistic (especially at the legs) and can only turn in one direction (the head can turn left and right, but not up and down).
A normal store bought plush dog's head can also be turned in many positions, right? It just can't hold that position if you release it, but it can if you insert wire or lockline.
This pattern looks quite good, but I would make the head separately from the body. The head has to be stuffed very firmly, so the end of the backbone is fixed and can't shift inside the head and the head won't loose shape when turned. But the neck should be loosely stuffed, so it can turn easily.
Does that make sense?
Joanne Livingstone wrote a few blogposts about lockline and how she attaches a separate neck piece, maybe it can help you:
http://desertmountainbear.blogspot.co.at/
SilverClaw - thank you for those links, that tutorial to make a pattern is great! I'm not sure what it means about the right angle bit though :/?
I have found this on google:
http://dollmaker.nunodoll.com/dog/kishu.html
Which is a fairly similar shape to a pom, so I thought maybe I could modify it a bit as it needs thinner/finer legs. I had planned on doing each bit individually (legs/head/body), but maybe doing it the way this person has would be better, then perhaps add in the wire afterwards.
I would love to see pics of your in progress chihuahua!
i think they are just avoiding tight corners in a pattern that are more difficult to sew:)
that pattern would probably work fairly well, although the muzzle will need adjusting to be smaller, like on a pom's and i would also make the tail and legs narrower. for the tail you need to be able to have all the long fluff for a Pomeranian without actual tail thickness as they have fairly thin tails under that fluff.
I would also move the ears higher and bring the eyes slightly closer together, and then use needle sculpting to adjust the shape further so that it looks right.
for a posable plush try to keep the legs as straight as possible, as the posing is what will add in the bends at the joints, as opposed to it already being there in the pattern, if it is there, it can be very difficult to stretch the leg out when needed or to bend in any other direction.
this is my wip of the chihuahua, as you can see the legs only have the knee and ankle as they have been posed that way.
the wire has been twisted together with sever strands of the wire, which makes it stronger. to go inside a plush i would recommend using an epoxy to cover up the sharp ends so it doesn't poke through at the feet and to also use duct tape to completely cover the armature to help its stability.
for the head to turn you will either need the neck fabric to be slightly loose so that it can move, or to do the head separately and use a joint in there. remeber, a dog has fairly loose skin at its neck to that it can move freely, and that your fabric is basically the skin of the animal.
i guess my biggest advice for something that is posable it to make all of the limbs, and other things which need to move, fully extended. think of it as the the animal being completely stretched out, or floppy, then the armature is the skeleton, the stuffing is the flesh and the fabric is the skin. by moving the skeleton the pose is achieved.
for the fur, you could try using long mohair for the tail, the kind they use for doll wigs, as poms have very long fur on the tail.
hope that makes sense in some way. if you like i can get a pic of my chihuahua in the middle of the pattern making to better illustrate if that would help.
Posts: 110Elli - yes it makes sense, I was wondering myself how to fix the backbone so the neck will still turn, but I'll think more about that when I get to to that stage :lol:. My Mill Creek pup has got jointed legs, and because of this, he feels far less cuddly that a standard plush dog, which is why I wanted to use wires instead.
SilverClaw - Your chihuahua WIP is amazing! How do you put the fur over it though? My thought was you sew the fur inside out,
then turn the whole thing in on itself so you can't see the stitching, but I wouldn't have thought you would get that chi frame in that way?
I've hit a bit of a stumbling block with the fabric, that 'blush' colour does have a pinkish tinge according to the seller, and I can't find another cream that is long enough and looks right. This is the best I have found:
http://www.mohairbearmakingsupplies.co. … le-limited
I'm unsure if its too white though? This was the other I found:
http://www.fredaldous.co.uk/fur-fabric-long-hair.html
I think I will use that pattern, and adjust it, as you say the legs, tail, nose and ears need to be finer, but the basic shape is not bad. I'll remember to make the legs straight too, thanks for that tip.
I'd love to see pics of your chihuahua pattern in progress, it will give me an idea of what to aim for!
This is certainly an interesting thread!
On the topic of fabric, I don't think you'd be happy with the stringy whiteness of the first link, and I question the quality of the second. Do yourself a favor and contact Donna Mettling: http://www.donnasduinbruins.com/ She's in the USA, but she has the most extensive knowledge about and selection of good quality faux furs of anyone I know. Maybe the postage wouldn't be too bad--especially if you could get the right fur. (The prices themselves are always very reasonable.)
With faux, there are huge variations in the quality of the pile and the backing fabric. Two of the best mills (Tissavel and Tyber) have undergone major changes, so supplies are getting pretty limited. If I were you--for ease of sewing, if nothing else--I'd also consider the long-pile mohairs. And again, at least a little practice before you make your special pup, or at least some practice heads since the face is so important.
Good luck!
Becky
Posts: 110Thanks for the link Dangerbears, I won't bother with those two fabrics then, incase its too fake looking.
This was the only other one I could find that looks nice:
http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/15893657 … s%2Ffabric
It looks light cream-ish in the picture, but I'm not sure how accurate it is :/.
