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Dilu Dec 29, 2005

Debbie D, 

'This is terrible, but I don't remember if our library has a section on the care and feeding of mohair....

One thing I do, after I cut off a tiny snip of fabric with the card so that I can write on the car if I liked the fabir and how it performed.....it is an easy referance for me then- And re-ordering is a breeze.

then I plop it in the sink or the washer and squirt plain old  Tresemee hair conditioner all over it and let it run through a rinse cyle on delicate.
Why tresemee?  It's cheap.

I hang it up and let it dry-although I have been known to toss it in the dryer too.  Mohair, like our own hair, is very forgiving.

The caveat is that it won't grow back if we give it a bad permenant. 

Just remember that, while you can dye it, condition it, fold/staple and mutilate it it is an organic product.  Like our own hair.  It has carbon in it.  So an easy way for me to remember is if I wouldn't use it on my own hair I wont use it on mohair.

Now the backing is a slightly different story- its cotton-and you need to treat it accordingly.

http://www.mohairusa.com/  will give you a little info on this product that we all love so much

When you get into dying your fabric you will have a lot of fun but again will have the properties to contend with. 

http://www.teddy-talk.com/viewtopic.php?id=3224  is a link to show you that we all have mishaps and frustrations even if we have had a ton of experience.

For the most part though, Mohair is forgiving, easy to work with, and makes great looking critters.

Please keep asking your questions.  This forum is for us all to share our experiences, the good, the bad, and of course

the beautiful things we make

Oh stop you guys....I know what you were thinking I would write....gotcha!

:hug:  Miss Debbie D  I'm glad you are here, and don't you worry about the fur flying......we like a good healthy debate around here   :dance:

We can take, right guys?

:hug:    :hug:

to one and all

dilu

DebbieD Dec 29, 2005

  Thanks Dilu!!!  I don't know what I would do without you guys to give such good advice!   :hug:   

The mohair sample suggestion has all ready paid for itself.  Last night I dumped each sample bag on the bed, and let my hands do the work.  I'd find samples that my hands just LOVED    and then looked each one up to see how much they cost.  Alpacas were a top of the list, but I laughed as I pulled card after card of 370 s/c mohair.  I just loved the texture, and the different colours were a treat!  At least its a reasonable price, too...    once I decide which colour to chose! 

I've all ready got ideas for making the fur softer too, I'll just have to try it out on a sample.  Oh yes, and why is some of the mohair matted??  I must confess, I keep picking at it with my fingers, and I'm itching to drag out my grooming brush and give it a good 'going over', but then I think ... No, that's the way its made, its supposed to look like that.  I'll have to snoop on Intercal, and see what the teddys look like when they're made from this type fur.

:hug: Thank you one and all for your valuable input!!!! :hug:

Daphne Dec 29, 2005

Debbie - I totally know what you been about wanting to brush that matted mohair out! DON'T!!!!! It'll be a frizzy mess if you do! Here's a picture of a couple of critters I made with Schulte's matted mohair. "Barley & Hops". I love this stuff!! Great for country style, well love characters.

shantell Dec 29, 2005

Daphne,

Barley & Hops are adorable.  I really love the look of the matted stuff but I haven't worked with it YET.    I do have a question...surprised huh?      How do you groom the matted mohair...especially the head after all the mauling and womanhandling that goes on with stuffing, embroidering, eyes, ears, etc.

Shantell

Judi Dec 29, 2005

Here's a photo of distressed mohair brushed out.  I think it is a matter of personal preference really.  Both ways look nice but I love my wire pet brush just too much

I have to admit I don't do any conditioning on my mohair.  I use it striaght out of the box.  If I want to adjust the direction of the fur, water works like a charm. Stress-free and easy.

Daphne, your bears look great unbrushed but I have to admit I am a brush-it freak.  Even after brsuhing, I find that the mohair will return to it's original condition after some handling. I have yet to be disappointed.

  One of the features I really find helpful on Intercal is the photo gallery of bears made up with the various types of mohairs.  This gives a new perspective aside from the physical description of the fabrics.  Being an artist, I am a very visual person.  I go straight to the photos to find what I want.

I am also a "furm" beliver in: dive-in-head-first-trust-your-gut-go-for-it-nothing-ventured-nothing-gained-wonderful-things-happen-by-mistake type of person. :hug:

WildThyme Dec 29, 2005

I am a big fan of the 370 s/c!!!! Here are a couple that I've made of that quality.  I've also had really nice results from washing this mohair with a bit of conditioner, then brushing it out with a wire cat brush in the direction of the pile, then allowing to to air dry.  Makes the texture a bit less "chunky."

shantell Dec 29, 2005

Debbie,

The 370 S/C is wonderful...probably easily one of my favorites.  And...I do believe it's on pre-pak special right now...yep I just checked   If you don't get the weekly emailer you'll find a link up at the top of this page (the darling teddy bear pictured).

Check it out if you haven't and sign up for the weekly emailer or watch for it here.  I think it usually updated each Friday.

P.S.  My little avatar panda is made from 380S/CM which is similar to the 370 S/C but more matted.  I really like it too.

Shantell

Dilu Dec 29, 2005

Donna

Just for the record Intercal sells Helmbold, Schulte and Norton.  Norton is almost all gone if not totaly gone since the mill closed.

Now Edinburgh sells Schulte.  Do they sell other mills product as well?

As an advisor for the Edinburgh board you would know, right?

So we should differentiate between Intercal, who sells the products, and the mills, Schulte and Helmbold who actually make them.

Also since I have been making teddies for nearly 2 years, I have never had the stuffing showing through the backing problem when I was using mohair. That's kind of scarry. Well I did have that happen on a synthetic knit from an Australian company, but I decided that perhaps on this type of fabric I should alter the type of bears I made.  I certainly didn't think it was the internet supplier's fault.  I figured I just hadn't had enough experience to recognize that this particular type of synthetic fabric couldn't handle the really firmly stuffed heads.

Tell us, how long ago was this that you had the problem? 
and how did you deal with it?

I think it is great that we can discuss the pros and cons of the products we use, but I think in all fairness we need to be specific and not paint a whole company with the same brush if it was 1 product we tried 5 or 6 years ago

dilu

WildThyme Dec 29, 2005

Oh!  I just remembered yet another mill that produces mohair.... Steinlein!  It's another German mill, I believe. I bought some from Disco Joints & Teddies (Canadian company) many months ago when they offered a pre-pack at a price that was so fabulous I just couldn't resist it!  What I bought was much shorter than I am accustomed to using, but becaus4e it was just a tremendous deal, I gave it a shot and really liked the different look it gave my bears.  I used the 3/8" dense.  What I did really like about the mohair was the backing... it was very flexible, which really worked for me with my super curvy patterns and thin limbs....they are often difficult to turn.  I really did like the backing.

http://www.discojoints.on.ca/discomohair.asp

All Bear Dec 29, 2005

I used to swear by Schulte and used it for years, but that was before I found Helmbold to play with!  I love the pile varieties and colours and I much prefer the pricing! 

Schulte is indeed beautiful and I can't begin to criticise it, but I can't afford to use it all the time with the way things are in bear selling these days and so I've had to consider other options and now I'm finding that Intercal's terrific selection of Helmbold fabrics is giving me much greater scope.

Daphne Dec 29, 2005

I think we all know that Edinburgh and Intercal are just the importers of mohair from the various mills. They don't MAKE/MILL the mohair themselves. Only select that which they to sell to us. (OK, if you didn't know, now you do!    )

So, for the biggest import companies we buy from:

Intercal = Helmbold (about 60 styles according to their website), Norton (what's left) and Schulte (5 styles according to their website)

Edinburgh = Schulte (over 130 styles according to their website)

I'm pleased to say I just figured out how to really navigate and get more out of Intercal's website! I've been having such a hard time with it. Phew!!! (Operator Error - Not Intercal!) All the finished bear photos really are great.

Shantell - unless you wash and brush the matted mohair as Kim has done, and I must say the end result is beautiful, the matted mohair will eventaully return to its original look after being womanhandled so brushing only gives a temporary change to the look. After finishing the head or any part of the body I just use my fingertips/nails to fluff the fur up a bit and use my awl to free fur from the seams if necessary. All the handling and added matting just adds to the character of the mohair if you are indeed going for that matted look.

Again, it's a personal preference and there are always so many options and techniques. NONE are right or wrong!

Like Judi was sort of saying: Experiment! Play! You never know!!

What one of us may NOT like... you might love!   

:hug:   :hug:
Daphne

marie Dec 29, 2005

I have not been buying mohair for very long, so I really don't know enough yet to have a favorite company.

I do love several of the Helmbold and Norton mohairs that I have gotten from Intercal.   I love Intercal's selection of small pieces.   For a very reasonable price I can get a piece that I can make one or two smallish bears out of and see if I like it before ordering a larger cut.  Also, all the pictures really do help; to be able to see what you are buying.

I find Edinburg's online catalog very confusing, compared to Intercal's which is a joy to use.   The few pieces of Shulte mohair I have bought have been at a show where I could see and feel the mohair before buying.  I must say that for unique specialty mohair I have never seen anthing like Shulte's.  One of my favorites that I have ever used was Shulte, about 2" pile, pink, curly, string mohair.   I only bought enough for one bear, and now I want more of it, and have not been able to find it on Edinburgs website.

I am totally with daphne on matted mohair.  I never brush it out!  The ultra sparse matted qualities are just so cool and unique looking, I wouldn't want to change it.

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorDec 29, 2005

This is an example of Helmbold's 325 S/CM (curly matted) brushed lightly.  I love the look!

Donna Dec 29, 2005

Dilu,
Thanks for thinking that I am an Edinburgh advisor but trust me I am not.  I would never feel that I have enough knowledge to come close to filling that position.  To my knowledge Edinburgh only sells Schulte mohair.  I have been lucky enough to have had hands on fabric from Schulte, Helmbold, Norton, Haida and Steinlein mills.  I understand that there is a mill in South Africa but I have not had the opportunity to see or feel their mohair, maybe some day.  Please don't feel that I was knocking Intercal's fabric, I still use it.  Another artist and I were down there in August and left with a nice bundle of fabric. 
The mohair that I had trouble with the stuffing showing through the backing was just in July, so not years ago.  It is a piece that I like and will continue to use but I will not forget to boil it ahead of time to shrink.  The way I dealt with the problem was to airbrush the face.
Sorry if you felt I was stepping on toes.
Donna

DebbieD Dec 29, 2005

:clap:  :hug: Thank you everyone for showing me your bears!!!  I love getting to see what these different mohairs look like on real bears ....     I'm not sure I could leave the matted stuffs alone though!    ...too many years as a dog groomer. 

Shantell...why did you have to tell me that???!!!!  Aachhh!  My credit card is all maxed out from shopping over the holidays     So there's no way I can order it til next week at the earliest.      Ah well, that will give me even more time to play with the samples and decide which colours I want to play with.  Although I do love the traditional teddy colours, I'm eager to play with the pastels and 'non traditional' peaches, greens, and violet hues.  Afterall, very few coats come in those colours!   

shantell Dec 29, 2005

Shantell...why did you have to tell me that???!!!!  Aachhh!  My credit card is all maxed out from shopping over the holidays  :whistle

Because I'm a temptress     

Not really...just didn't know if you knew about the Weekly E-mailer.  Just keep watching it each week for fabrics you want to try.  That is what I've been doing and it works great for me.  I just wasn't ready to buy mohair by the yard and then not be happy...and I hate returning stuff. 

Good Luck...there is just so much to choose from and I'm overwhelmed by it all STILL!!!

Dilu Dec 29, 2005

Daphne....E has 130 Schulte styles?  Did they say if they keep all the styles in stock all the time?

Donna, I was interested to hear about the South Africa connection.  Do you know if this mill is up and running yet?  I think the idea of being able to have your own angora goat farm and thereby have your own source of wool to work from would be inticing to a mill.  Please share if/when you learn more.

I hope one of the mags will do an article about them if they do get going.

About a year ago TB&F did an article on the mills, and it was really interesting Debbie D and it had a lot of info for a new-to-the-fabric person.  If I find my copy (big if) I can copy and fax the pages to you if you like.

Unless someone knows about a better place for more info.

Granted I was reading in German, and mine isn't so good these days, but I thought the Grizzly factory also did their own mohair?
so does anyone know about them? 

Other than they were close to Tubingen, I can't remember much else.

I bought some they had on e-bay a year ago.  Still haven't used it yet....for a while I saw them on e-bay pretty regularly but now I don't see them so often.

here another fun  link re: mohair: 

http://www.wigmasterassoc.com/

who knew?

dill

thumperantiques Dec 29, 2005

Hi,
    When I started buying mohair, I bought the sample pack of 1/16th inch Shulte mohair from Edinburgh.  I got 12 pieces about 7" X 12" in different colours and they literally lasted almost a year, since my bears were "really" tiny then.  When I did shows, I bought both from Edinburg and Intercal, and found the Intercal mohair frayed more, but that was over 5 years ago.   I have to say I like Shulte mohair a lot.   I have a friend that used to have a bear supply business, and I used to buy from her but it was all Edinburg stock.  I have lots of mohair still in my cupboard, but like everyone else, I loooove to touch and feel new "stuff".  I am looking forward to being within driving distance of "Disco Joints and Teddies" in Peterborough, when we move.  Then I can actually "see" the fabric in person - can't wait!  Oh, and I fraycheck every piece of mohair I cut, since my bears are still on the small size and I sew all my bears by hand.

                                                              Hugs,

                                                              Brenda

kbonsall Dec 29, 2005

Do they still have prepacks?  I want to buy prepacks that have SMALLER pieces... I want to buy intercal prepacks but they are such big pieces ...(I like packs premade for me LOL) I dont need a whole yard or half a yard... I would like several pieces since my bears are usually about 6" or soo... i like variety

Delartful Bears Dec 29, 2005

Mmm I wonder if the matted mohair is what aussie call Ratinee????  I love it!!!!  Here's two examples, one is a sparse mohair, so it's much more scruffy (especially on small bears) and then the other is a tighter one...

Danni

marie Dec 30, 2005

Sue Ann, I love your "laugh" bear!  What a great face, and great toes!

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorDec 30, 2005

Marie . . . thank you so much - Colton was much fun to make.

Danni . . . ratinee is the same as matted (cute bears, by the way).

Kim . . . Intercal's prepacks contain 4 quarter-yard pieces (totals 1 yard) for an amazing price.  Check out this week's prepack by clicking on the bear in the top right hand corner of the page.

kbonsall Dec 30, 2005

I don't really like sparse.... I like "full" "plush" mohair   Plus, I dont really need any right now...

Daphne Dec 30, 2005

Daphne....E has 130 Schulte styles?  Did they say if they keep all the styles in stock all the time?

Dilu - The link to Edinburgh's mohair inventory is: http://www.edinburghimports.com/shopping/FabricList.asp
So you can count for yourself how many styles they have!

They've always seemed to have all the STYLES in stock, but colors can change. I've had only one time in the last 5 years when they haven't had a particular color shown on their website in stock. But due to their enormous selection I was able to find a more than satisfactory substitution. And, if there has been a particular color or style I've wanted but they didn't normally carry, they've ordered it and I've had it in 2-3 weeks, tops. (No 10 or 15 yard minimum and months to wait.) Although they aren't quick to return emails they have great phone customer service and are very accomodating.

Marie - Edinburgh often sends end pieces or 'not quite right' pieces to shows along with some of their regular stock. That pink you had may have been one of the odd pieces. Sorry!    I find those odd pieces are sometimes the best as they are so unique!

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner SponsorDec 30, 2005

Hmmm....

I've been watching this thread with great interest, and enormous trepidation.  I'm gonna dip my big toe in the waters at this point, and offer a roundabout commentary on what you all seem to be referencing and arguing.  Namely, "Which mohair is BEST?"

I'm not sure that was the original question, by the way.  I think the original question was more, "What is YOUR particular favorite brand of mohair." 

But, to my eye anyway, there seems to have been some generalized movement (no one person branded herein!) away from the benign sharing of personal mohair preferences, and into a comparison, or ranking, of brand names, mills, suppliers, finishes, qualities, colors, and types in a heirarchical fashion, with one being "better" or "larger" or "more affordable" or "more tightly woven" or otherwise, somehow "on top of" the other.

Stating that so-and-so is overpriced, or such-and-such mill produces backings that suck, or this place has better service than that place, or such things, is not quite the same thing as saying, "Hey... I really love curly/matted mohair in a 2 inch length!  That works great for me!"

I'm not sure this is destined to remain a productive and positive discussion, and certainly, these kinds of comparisons contain huge potential for big-time hurt feelings and toe-stepping.  If I may say so, directly, that is, to you, my friends... and with the intent not to scold or criticize anyone, but to re-direct conversation just a smidge, in an effort to keep things positive and avoid the misunderstandings so often a by-product of communication on the internet.

Wanting to discover which mohair is "best" makes sense at first glance.  As the creator of soft sculpture critters, I like to hear input from others about which mohairs work for them, myself. I'm sure you all feel the same!

But as I read this thread, and all the responses that have contributed to it, I have to wonder... can there possibly be only one answer? to the question many of you seem to be answering, which is not, "What is your favorite type of mohair", but rather, Which mohair/mill/supplier/quality/color/type is "best?"

I think, actually ... resoundingly, NO.

Let's look at an example, from a related, but different, subject area.

What would your answer be if I posted, "I'm making some clothes.  What fabric is best for that?"

I'm thinking I'd get as many different answers to that question, as there are people willing to post a response!

Why?

Because there's not one fabric that's "best" for every pattern, every article of clothing, every style and look and individual expression.  Rather, it's more likely the case that there are fabrics that are "BEST FOR."

What I mean by that, is this...

If I want to make dungarees, which fabric might be "best" for that particular item of clothing?  Well, denim, of course!  That is, unless you wanted summery dungarees, in which case, probably seersucker.

We're already at two totally different answers, mentioning two totally different textures, finishes, weights, and types of fabric.  For just "dungarees."  And imagine how many other types and styles and kinds of clothing one can create!  It's limitless!

Take it a step further.

What's the "best" fabric for stitching up a bit of [INVALID] lingerie? 

I'd say, probably NOT burlap.  Probably NOT unbleached muslin.  Something more like silk, or satin, or silk satin, would probably be the "best" for this purpose.  Who wants to make out with a flour sack, anyway???

But burlap would be "best" if I were making potato sacks for a kids race at summer camp.  And unbleached musling would be perfect for mocking up new patterns requiring fitting or reworking before using more expensive fabrics for their final creation.

So... how does this example apply to mohair?

Well... if you're making tiny teddies with bendy limbs, a mohair with a softer, looser backing will help you turn your pieces more easily.  Yet, you'd probably want a relatively fray-free backing, because your seam allowances are small.  When you find a mohair -- whatever mohair, wherever it comes from! -- that works for you in these ways, use it!  That's the "best" mohair for you!

If you want stiff, traditional limbs, and plan to stuff a traditionally-styled teddy to a rock-hard finish, a super-tight weave will help you create that finished look.

If your bears are contemporary, dense, lush, colored mohairs work great!  That's the "best" mohair to add to your stash!

But if you're trying to re-create a vintage Steiff, it just won't look right in lush, dense, plush red, 2 inch pile mohair, whether that mohair is milled by Helmbold, Norton, Schulte, or something from Mars!  Whether it comes from Intercal, or Edinburgh; Beary Cheap, or Disco Joints; your local show rep, or our own Sassy Bears & Fabrics supplier.   The "best" mohair for this kind of creation will need to be kinda sparse, and earth-toned, and even better... beaten to all getout, for a distressed look.

What if you're making a polar bear?  Will something sparse and wiry and curly look good?  Absolutely not, no matter where it originates.  Go for a dense mohair, or an alpaca blend, for a "real" polar bear look. 

But if you want to create a raggy, ratty little ted, a primitive little critter, anything dense, lush, soft, luxurious, and shiny, just won't look "right."  The "best" mohair for something like that might look, well, pretty much like shredded crap coming right off the sales table, or out of the box.  But it might be the absolutely "best" choice for your little scrappy teddy bear or rabbit or... whatever.

I have used mohair from Intercal, Edinburgh, and Beary Cheap.  I like them all.  Seriously.  I don't pay a whit of attention to who makes what, or who carries what, because frankly, I couldn't care less.  I don't even keep notes on which mohair I use for which piece; I like variety.  I like to try new things.  I like to be surprised.  I'm too lazy to make such notations.

:)

In every case, no matter what mohair I begin with, I find it works out... just fine.  What I'm after, personally, in choosing mohair, is usually a particular look, finish, and/or color.   And that "look" is what determines the mohair I purchase.  Not a name brand.  Not a price.  Not even the mill or supplier (although I freely admit a proclivity to order from Intercal, because that's where I began my mohair purchasing at the outset of my career, so I'm familiar with their mohairs and their catalog, and navigating that catalog... and because the service has been impeccable -- and no, I'm not compensated in any way to say that -- and because, well, they seem to have what I need.) 

I think Schulte mohair is glorious.  But then, I've only ever used their kid mohair.  I bought every piece of Schulte I've ever used from Donna, when I've seen her at shows!  She's an Edinburgh rep and carries a nice variety of Schulte mohairs in her travels (usually, anyway.)  Their other mohair finishes and densities have existed under my radar, because when I see Donna, I go for the kid stuff!  When I've made bears from Schulte kid, they've turned out lush and soft and glossy and pretty.  They look far from traditional.  Since that's the look I'm after, that mohair choice works out beautifully.

I think Helmbold mohair is wonderful.  And Norton.  When I order from Intercal, I let my imagination run free.  I grab something different, texture, color, finish, pile length, every single time.  The most expensive bears I've ever sold have ALL been made from mohair I ordered from Intercal.  So I don't think there is necessarily a correlation between desirability, and mohair choice.  I think it comes down to that "awww" factor, and the draw of a particular bear... no matter where the mohair comes from.

As a point of information, my Golden Teddy award winning piece for this year, 2005, my skunk Chauncey, was made from four varieties of Intercal mohair (and I never did ifind out which mill it came from, because I don't care!)  I couldn't get to the SoCal warehouse for Intercal, so I phoned Johnna, told her what I needed, swore her to secrecy!, and got my stuff within a few days.  It had a great outcome for me!

When I've ordered from Beary Cheap (only once, very early on), I got my mohair surprisingly quickly, and it was well priced, and shipped for little outlay of cash.  I was very pleased!

I have ordered from Edinburgh on several occasions -- mostly cotter pins and rulers and things like that -- and I've always been very pleased with thier service and product.  The mohairs Donna carries on their behalf, as their rep, are high quality.  I like them a lot.  I also very much enjoyed their CLASSROOM forum, before I got too busy with this one, and other life and bearmaking pressures!, to continue visiting there on a regular basis.  There's great information there.  While they are, strictly speaking, a "competitor" with Intercal -- our gracious host here -- there's no reason to consider them the "enemy," I don't think. 

I guess my point is... I think we are maybe stepping on one another's toes here, in trying to answer this question, which, it seems to me, anyway, is pretty much unanswerable.  There are so many answers to the question, "What is the best mohair?"  Because there are so many applications of, and uses for, mohair. 

What works for one bearmaker, for that one bearmaker's audience of collectors, for that one bearmaker's tastes and preferences, for that bearmaker's price range, simply doesn't work for another.  And it's okay that way!  If it weren't, we wouldn't have the variety in bearmaking that is provided for our grateful eyes by the Barbara Ann Cunninghams (dense, colorful, often dyed mohairs), and the Jennifer Murphys (very short, very sparse, scrappy, earth toned mohairs), and the Heidi Steiners (colorfully dyed, blackened and distressed, short-ish, semi-sparse mohairs), and the Michelle Lambs (lush, plush, soft, wavy mohairs), and the Lisa Rosembaums (earth toned, medium density, straight, traditional mohairs), and the Mary Lou Foleys (dense white or brown, realistic-fur-type, mohairs), and the Denise Purringtons (golden and beige toned, medium length, medium density mohairs, with black accents), and the Lora Solings (very sparse, very short, often handdyed, distressed and vintage-styled mohairs) ... all of them creating beautiful bears, in very different ways, with very different visions, all of them worthy of admiration, and beautiful and unique.  And all of those artists, using the mohair colors, types, finishes, mills, suppliers, that are "best for" them.

So, that's just my two cents on the subject.  An interesting subject!  A valuable query!  But ones which, most likely, can only be answered by each individual bearmaker, as regards each individual bearmaker's vision, approach, preferences, access to materials and supplies, budget, collecting audience, and style.

Big group hugs,