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LuxembearsLadies. so many words so well put here. Dilu I think you have it all in one sentence about artistry being judged. Art and beauty are in the eye of the beholder...period....
...and I think that is what makes our world so beautiful. Wouldn't our world be a boring place if every bear, or every artist's work, looked the same?
There is nothing more beautiful than that which comes from the heart. 
Kim-Bee BearsSome people like clowns, some are scared to death of them (me
)
dilu
ME TOO!!!! I would also LOVE to have a bearmaker around me so I could say "hey, am I doing this right or is there a better way" things like that... Everyone is sooo far away!
Posts: 8,574Oh Kimmy, you too? I'm 53. My baby cup has clowns all around it. It is the only tangible item I have from my birth mother. And it creeps me out!
I suspect something happened. But since the love of clowns isn't really germain to my current level of contentment I would rather not know what that something is.
Just call me whimpydillydo
I do wonder if it is possible for us to separate our emotions from our personal likes and dislikes when we critique.
I love the bears I have been given. Love them totally. No critiquing here, just unabashed cheering for the ladies who made these creations just for me to love. Because I really do believe that we get the bears that we are meant to get.
whimpydillydo
Kim-Bee BearsI had a fear of anything with a mask when I was little like Santa or the Easter Bunny and clowns... I went to the circus when I was little with my grandparents and was so petrified! They freak me out!!! If I go to the mall or something and there is a clown, I go the other direction! I dunno what it is, maybe something happened when I was little to affect me... kind of like me being scared to death of haunted hayrides and haunted houses I am afraid of them because of my brothers telling me stories of how there were maniacs on one and the tractor stalled and eveyone had to get out and run and the maniac who wasnt a person just dressed up but a person from a mental hospital would chase people and try to cut them up with a chainsaw... brothers 
Canna Bear PaintI think this is an idea that, if carefully done, has a great deal of potential. A simple review of technical aspects, or as Hayley says workmanship ('even eyes' and so forth), would be a great thing for people to participate in. I think the subjective comments could have a place as well, as long as they are kept separate and everyone understands that they are just personal opinions. Personally, not only would I like to know if I had technical issues, I would also want to know if, for example, 8 out of 10 fellow artists felt that the bear's color was unappealing, wanted to see bigger paws, or WHATEVER else. It's all good to know, and the information can be used or ignored as is desired.
I imagine it might be difficult to keep the identity of the artist who is being reviewed hidden, but what if the panel of reviewers was kept anonymous? Or rather, mention which people were involved in reviewing the bear, but don't link them directly to their comments. Just a thought. Anyway, I think peer evaluation can be a wonderful tool. I would love to recieve reviews and/or help review anyone else's work. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that there's something you can learn from just about anybody.
Hayley, your comment about very tight joints got me thinking about something. One of the artists I was sitting near at the last Schaumburg show actually bought one of Michelle Lamb's bears while she was there. I had the opportunity to hold her new purchase (holding it oh-so-carefully) and you know, I went to move the arms a little bit and they were so tightly jointed that I couldn't do it easily. Well, I'm sure I could have if I'd really tried, but I didn't want to look like I was manhandling this woman's brand new $800 bear in front of her. So I think there's probably a a fine line between what is considered 'tight' versus 'too tight', and I bet that line changes with each person's opinion. Personally, I came out of that opportunity and started tightening my bear's limbs more
Hugs,
Kelly
Mountain Dreamer BearsAnother interesting subject!! I have never laid eyes, let alone hands, on an artist bear in person. There are no bear shows near here and it would be very, very difficult for me to get away to go to one as much as I'd like to. So, being out here in the boonies I have no real 'ruler,' as it were to, to measure the quality of my bears by. Just my own greenhorn opinion. And pictures. Which, as it has been pointed out before, don't hold a candle to holding and touching a real bear.
While it is easy to crtique the construction, the durability, the quality of materials, is it possible to critique the artistry?
Art is a subjective thing and obviously, what appeals to one doesn't appeal to another. I think perhaps judging the art and appeal side of bears might be best left up to the individual collector. I know if there was a 'definitive expert' who told me, "Your bears don't look sad enough. You need to make them look sadder to be appealing." Well, that would just take all the fun out of it for me. I don't want to make sad bears. I think artists should make the sort of bears they like. If they appeal to the artist, they will appeal to someone else too. That's the great thing about diversity. Something for everyone.
Construction, now that is a whole other ballgame. It is helpful for me just to read things like:
For example, you aren't judging whether the bear is firmly or loosley stuffed but whether it's lumpy or smooth, if bolts/cotter pins can be felt, if the toes and fingertips have stuffing in them or can you feel where the ball of stuffing is.
Just having these things brought to my attention will make me think about them when I'm making a bear. Some details may seem to be obvious to good construction but can slip past the attention of a newbie like me who is just concentrating on trying to get that darn bear together, with its head on straight, all its parts even and facing the right direction, and no blood on its fur from pricked fingers!
Critiquing or 'reviewing' (a term I prefer) one's bear should be an educational experience for the artist. Not a session of criticism and attack.
I don't hear any of us claiming to be experts in bear making. There is always something to learn. Something to improve upon. There is always someone with more experience, more knowedge than another too, though. I don't know about you guys but I'm always happy to listen to those more wise than I! It's up to me to take what I can use and leave the rest and try really darn hard not to be too sensitive and emotional to what is said..... I'm one of the sensitive ones so know I'd take everything someone said about my work to heart. But I'd also learn from it all in the end!
Thats one of the reasons I find this forum so wonderful. It is a very valuable thing to be able to learn from those more experienced. Something I sincerely appreciate. I'm so grateful there are so many talented artists here willing to share! :hug:
We do sort of get a critique of our own work here just by learning how meticulously others do their work. Things like trimming fur at the joints and plucking the nose area are things that improve quality of construction but which I wouldn't have thought of on my own.
I think I do fairly good work, just from my own sewing experience and innate obsession with details, but I know there are still many, many things to learn, things I've never thought of, things an experienced bear artist would notice right off and be able to point out to me. A hands-on critique would be great, even if it hurt a little. Its just growing pains!
Short of that, a 'judging form' like Eileen suggested would be tremendously helpful. It would at least show us what to work on.
Great topic Haley! I'll shut up now!
Ruby Mountain BearsI was so fortunate to have someone near me when I started making bears. she literally sat down and showed me how to joint an arm etc. I never would have realized how hard you have to poke and pull sometimes to get things done.
Anyway I would show her each bear and she would give me her advice. And That's what I considered it Advice.
It was always gentle, and never a critique or bashing of my work. It was always like, you should try moving the arms a little lower, and don't over stuff them. After that I realized the bear looked like arnold schwarznegger. Ha Ha. The great thing about this person was she would only point out one thing for improvement each time so I did not become discouraged. If she had pointed out every flaw in those first few bears I would not have continued. I look at them now and see every flaw.
I think helpful advisement is more what I am looking for, not a critic. If I was entering a competition then I would look more for Critiquing. I have had quilts critiqued in competition and even then it was still not a bashing of my work it was more helpful.
I think that honest appraisment of your work is always neccessary for improvement, it pushes you to strive harder.
I am not ready to enter competition, not because my work is sub par, but because I am not ready as an artist yet. I still feel like I have so much more growing to do yet.
Kathy
I think seeking out honest critique is essential when starting out on the road towards selling your work. I took some samples of my work to a very well known bear artist here in the UK, before I ever considered selling. I was terrified of the feedback, but more terrified of selling sub-standard goods!
I received some honest direction relating to the potential marketability of my product and my skills as a bear maker - in particular I remember being told to 'pay more attention to the nose stitching'. When I compared my noses back then, to the bear artist who was kind enough to share expertise with me, I had to agree, I had a long way to go! I worked hard on those noses from that day to this and now feel justified in taking pride in them!
It was a long time ago and definitely part of my learning curve. At the time I was extremely grateful for the constructive critique and even now, feel it was of great benefit to me.
Flying Fur StudiosPaula, I agree with you. I think an honest critique is very important. Helps us grow alot faster, and pointers like nose stitching, or stitches that are showing don't biased at all.
As shelli pointed out, wouldn't that be helpful in many aspects of our life?
Now, why don't we all get together and have a critiquing party.......
Gatehouse GalleryWhat an interesting topic...and one that is dear to my heart. As it's already been pointed out, there is a big difference between judging, critiquing, grading, advise etc.
I'm a licenced all breeds dog judge (part of my income that took 20 years of study and testing) and have judged several bear shows and there are some BIG differences that make bear judging and critiquing so subjective as to make it near impossible to achieve any stability or consistancy between events and opinions.
Yes, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and personal interpretation of balance and symetry abounds, but at least in dogs we have a 'Breed Standard' written for EVERY breed....Yep pages specifying general appearance, characteristics, head, ears, eyes, mouth, nose, neck, forequarter, body, hindquarters, size, gait, coat, colour....but STILL personal interpretation can become controversial.(so-and-so put Freddie over Fang because he said that eye colour was more important than eye shape HE HE HE)
Now think how hard it is to critique and judge bears when there is no 'Standard' to study and the chances of having someone judging with the training and credibility of Daphne are slim at best. There is no publicity on who the judge is (I'm going by competitions in Australia) and there is actually a feeling of secrecy surrounding this (I believe that people who keep secrets have got something to hide!!)
Advise on the other hand can be invaluable...but once again remember that it CAN be so subjective....I believe in cupping the ears to achieve a realistic anatomical appearance, but others may like a straight ear base????? I like tight joints, particularly for my standing bears, others like them with more movement????
After all that, 
I'd suggest that if you want guidance, you might find someone who's style of bears and opinions you enjoy and ask them for some advise.
Just Us Bears
So many great opinions! And as Glenys said many of these areas are seperate, and yet they cross over sometimes too. I mean Critique, Judge, Advise.
Firstly....I wonder if "Critique' is perhaps a nasty word. It kinda sounds harsh doesn't it. But still, that's what they call it in comps.
Kathy...you say you are not ready to enter a competition...but there again, the big comps in the USA are very differently run and judged to our Aussie ones.
Here in Australia, we have sections for all level...from Junior to Novice, Open,New Professional, Professional and Master Class. Each has certain prerequisites....but if everyone waited until they felt there bears were 'good enough' there would be no comp.
The thing with comps in Australia is that the judges do allocate a certain number of points for whether they like the bear personally or not...and I'm not sure that once you get past the "Open' section, that this should be allowed. After all...this is the level where artistic license comes in. Having said that, I think is only a matter of time before new judging criteria is added to the crit sheets as these sheets were developed when bears were more the same and less unusual. Nowadays, anything goes! The most valuable thing about entering Australian comps is that you have someone offer suggestions to improve your workmanship, regardless of your level. Of course, once you get into the higher levels, you would expect not to be having points deducted for poor workmanship.
Workmanship is the glue that will hold a bear artists career together in my opinion. If it's there, word spreads like wildfire...if it's not, the artists career may be shorter lived.
I remember seeing two magnificent bears at the comp table when I dropped my comp bear off one year. I was sure a 'Bear of Show' tag would be on one of them the next time I saw them. I was wrong and each of them carried a red 'second' place ticket.
The only thing that could have been wrong with these bears was the workmanship...they were stunning to look at. In Australian Comps, You get a Blue ribbon if you score between 95 and 100 points, red between 90 and 95, green between 85 and 90 etc, etc. There can be more than one of any given colour in each section, but the best bear in each section gets a Rosette and/or medal as well.
I have scanned a comp sheet from a comp a while back...but bear in mind this one is for a dressed bear. One thing I giggled at on the sheet was 'Appropriate eye size.....Judi and Shelli would lose points for using larger eyes here....so they really need to update their crit sheets. There's no way you could take points off these ladies for their bears eyes!!!
Having done the complete circle and getting a little off track....I just want to clarify that my original post was in regards to something WAY more simplified than what we have been dicussing.
It's simply an idea that as friends, we can offer to look closely at another less experienced artists bear and offer any suggestions that may be of assisstance with regards to workmanship only. I certainly don't believe anyone has to right to comment on the style of someone else's bear. This is such a personal thing and it's the reason why we have so many and varied artists.
I don't think any artist who would be willing to look at and advise a newer bearmaker about workmanship has to feel that they need to be perfect before agreeing to help. People like Shantell just want to know if they are on the right track and any one of us who has had either a lot of bearmaking experience or formal class training is able to do that! 
A perfect example recently came from my cousin, who lives a few hours drive from me, but we see each other often. Andy has taken up making bears...only commercial patterns as she has no desire to design her own. She makes them up to about eight inches.
The last time she visited, she bought her latest bear and asked would I give her some tips on how she could improve. I had never felt comfortable about looking too closely at her workmanship because I didn't want her to feel I was looking for mistakes and from a distance they looked great. We when I looked closely, I could see that the ears were sewn on using a whip stitch an the stitches were very noticable. Also, her seam stitches were showing and fraying in places.
Turns out that she didn't know that hand stitching should be done with a backstitch and she was using a close whipstitch (the stitch some of us use to hold the pieces together with before sewing.) She didn't know any differently! And she was SO THRILLED to learn the correct way! He next bears were superb...all it took was a little gentle guidence.
We sometimes just assume that everyone knows the easiest and most effective way to do things...but what I do know is an accumulation of years of learning and it's easy to just assume that how everyone does it.
So if a newer artist asks for you to look at a bear for them and offer help...don't feel you aren't worthy...all they are asking for is some gentle guidence that may make all the difference. I know when I was a beginner, I would go to shows and examine the bears there SO closely and ask a ton of questions. 99% of what I know now, was learned from artists willing to share at shows, but I know not many people are that fortunate...so for them...we may be it!.
Incidently, the organisers of the Mebourne Teddy Show and Comp coming up in May, willingly welcome International entries...so if you don't mind the cost of posting your bear over...it may be a good chance for some hands on feedback!
If anyone would like an entry form, or even just like to see one to know what the prerequisites are for each section, just let me know and I'll scan one.
Ruby Mountain BearsHayley,
Yes, send me that entry form and let me take a look. That critique sheet you posted is most helpful. I wish I could see more of them. Anyone else got any (Daphne)?? so we can see them?? I am going to print it out.
Hayley your bears are just awesome. I was pleased to hear that Ausse competitions include categories for beginners and New Proffessional. Is the New professional for those who sell bears??? And what are the Limitations??
I would be very interested in that for me.
Thanks,
Kathy
Back Road BearsI can't share the itemized list of areas juried through the artisan league I belong to but I can make up a basic list as well as add those things considered when reviewing bears. (The medium I jury is "fabric:surface design" which also includes quilting, handbags and the like.)
I'm up to my ears in getting out applications for the bear show I'm producing but will get a list together as soon as I can.
Cleathero CreationsI can post a couple more of tose sheets but you must understand that the sheets are full of helpful advice for me on some of my first bears as well so not too much laughinf about the comments
I'll get onto it today.
Just Us BearsBronwen,
I think on the contraire, that reading some of the judges comments about your bears will give people a better insight as to the kind of feedback they can expect....bearing in mind that not all judges are necessarily as fair and complementary as they should be. 
BTW welcome to the list...nice to see yet another Aussie face!
Kathy...I'll scan the entry form tonight....off to work again!
It also has all the categories and requirements. I may just post in here in this thread and then anyone who wants it can just save the image and print it out. Failing that, I can send as an email attachment if you decide you want to enter.
I have entered shows in three Aussie states to date, and all the entry forms and comp judging sheets are fairly similar.
Thanks so much for the lovely compliment about my bears! I am still learning, as I think we always are, but I'm pretty happy with their current direction. What I really need is a new website as my pics on the old one are a shocker. Now photoshop is my friend, I think I can improve on them no end. Just need more time! 
Cleathero CreationsI have been around for a while mainly as a lurker. People here seem so much more clever then me that I felt a little shy but I thought what the heck and plunged in.
Now where did I put those results?
Rufnut Teddy'sGreat topic Hayley, I started reading this thread the other day, and have only now just got on line again and back to it now.
I have found the feedback from our Australian competitions very valuable, it has helped me alot to establish what I am doing wrong and helped me to improve, I must admit, it is personal preference and some comments should be taken not too personally.
I am glad you have shared the sheet with everyone, hoping everyone will find it of value to them.
Cleathero Creations
Ok here are a few results....
Cleathero Creations Cleathero Creations
No matter how much I try the first one is being stubborn and I can't get it any clearer.
Ok the first photo is Sassy.
The second photo is Sam - my first real fur bear and about my 4th Bear
third phot is Minime
and I can't find a photo of Patti Kake
Patti Kake was a roly poly mini bear. She was green mini plush and sat in a cupcake paper. She was decorated with paint drizzled over her body like icing and seed beads glued on like 100's and 1000's.
I was quite pleased with her in some ways but I discovered at that point I didn't like the centre head seam and with ears part of the head pattern bears very much.
I am planning to do another one using slightly different techniques. She went to live with a friend and i can't find my photos of her. Sorry.
Rufnut Teddy'sThanks Bronwen, the second time around is clearer
Ruby Mountain BearsBrownen,
Those were wonderful posts. Really helpful. You should be proud of your work and your critiques, They are all really good.
This has been really helpful for me. I just feel like this keeps me from going in blind. You know what I mean?? At least I have some idea of what to expect.
Thank You for all the Help.
Hugs,
Kathy
Mountain Dreamer BearsHayley and Bronwen, these posts are really very helpful. I've printed out the forms and will study them. Thanks so much for sharing!!
hugs,
