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I know we've covered this before but with so many new and active members I thought this was a good topic to re-introduce for new input.
Feel free to copy the following and insert your answers for all to see and learn from!
1. Do you needle sculpt your eye sockets?
2. If so... how do you do it? Do you needle sculpt BEFORE setting your eyes?
3. After?
4. What kinds of stitches do you make? Tiny ones in a circle? One big stitch, near the center? Inner corners?
5. Where do you insert/exit the head? Behind the ears? At the neck?
This is always a topic that interests people ... me included. Have fun with it.
Thanks,
Sunnie Bearswhats a dohickey? 
ducking
Flying Fur StudiosIf you do a search on
'using large eyes'
lots of great info there. I asked about using big eyes, but sculpting the eye sockets are greatly covered in there, with pictures!!!
Upstate New YorkThis questionnaire reprinted here with the express permission of the author.
1. Do you needle sculpt your eye sockets? Sometimes; more frequently lately.
2. If so... how do you do it? Do you needle sculpt BEFORE setting your eyes? Before.
3. After? N/A
4. What kinds of stitches do you make? Tiny ones in a circle? One big stitch, near the center? Inner corners? Tiny ones in a circle.
5. Where do you insert/exit the head? Behind the ears? At the neck? At the neck. My <bear's> ears are never on at this point.
http://www.teddy-talk.com/viewtopic.php?id=2742
This is the thread Heather's referring to. There is some information in it on needle sculpting sockets which is indeed very good!... but an equal amount of this thread covers methods for setting eyes into the head, if anyone is interested in that as well.
Keep it coming!
I don't needle sculpt before because what If I don't like the look of the sculpting after the eye goes in?...So I sculpt after ...sometimes with tiny stitches in the corner of the eye to create the look of a tear duct type of thing...and also to draw the bridge of the nose in a bit ....and I tie off the threads very loosely till I am 100% happy with the eyes then really pull them in after that and sew them in securely. I usually pull through to the neck on opposite sides for each eye....but sometimes I go through the opposite lower cheek and then do a dogleg stitch back to the neck.....if I want to angle the eye outward...say for a rabbit.
I don't do much eye sculpting...
Maybe I should...I still can't get my head around how you know with certainty that it's going to work till the eyes are in...then it's too late...am I being stupid here? It sounds like a risky business...
Actually, that's my position too, Jenny. I tend to set my eyes quite firmly and then take a few stitches between them to bring up the bridge. I don't really needle sculpt the eye socket at all so this is as much to grab myself a clue as to help others!
Posts: 3,5401. Do you needle sculpt your eye sockets? Sometimes, it depends on the fur, and how the eyes look after I've set them.
2. If so... how do you do it? Do you needle sculpt BEFORE setting your eyes? N/A
3. After? ALWAYS AFTER
4. What kinds of stitches do you make? Tiny ones in a circle? One big stitch, near the center? Inner corners? Usually just at the inner eye corners.
5. Where do you insert/exit the head? Behind the ears? Yep, behind the ears, or rather, under them because I find it hides the knot better.
Shelli, I'm the same way. I find by the time I've sunken my eyes and gotten them placed, I usually don't need to needlesculpt, and in one worse case scenario, I found the needlesculpting gave my bear the wrong expression and I had to undo the sculpting!!!
Here's a weird phenomena.....I put the eyes in before I do the nose... (always...I can't do it any other way)..even though they aren't 'permanent'...then ,for some weird reason, after I have embroidered the nose..(which I mark with an invisible pen and pins to keep it straight) one eye seems to 'move' out of position and I end up repositioning it...this is why I dont trust myself to socket sculpt beforehand...I have a feeling that stitching the nose kind of alters the alignment between the eyes somehow...and while they appeared fine prior to nose stitchery...afterwards they can look oddly askew..... So if I'd mucked about with the eye sockets I'd have an even worse mess to sort out....
Ooh, that's a good question for a new thread... thanks for getting the cogs turning, Jenny.
Apple Dumpling DesignsI started out sculpting the eyes in a sort of circular fashion exiting at the neck BUT I kept breaking the thread with the awl when I'd go to set the eyes. Now I take a couple stitches BETWEEN the eyes to make a bridge and then set my eyes pulling pretty tight...okay I admit I practically have their head in a vise grip. My biggest problem I often end up with tiny dimples at the base of the neck which I can't seem to completely eliminate. You can't really see or feel them once the head is attached to the body but it annoys me still.
It's all still a work in progress for me and I keep changing how I do stuff all the time.
Hmmmn. Not sure if what I do qualifies as needle sculpting eye sockets but here's how I go:
Pin point eye position using er ... well, um ... pins ... 
I like to position my eyes on either side of the gusset seam.
Then take a long stitch from pin to pin (or thereabouts) using 5" needle and extra strong thread (I usually double the thread on my big bears, but you may not need to for smaller bears) in suitably invisible colour. This helps build the nose bridge and can be elaborated on if required by further needlesculpting. Fasten off tightly and very neatly, loosing threads in head.
Take first eye. Using double length of preferred extra strong thread (need a loooong piece of thread!) thread through eye loop and fasten eye in the centre of the thread. Repeat. You should now have an eye with eight long pieces of thread hanging from it.
Remove one of the pins and make a neat whole using an awl.
Using a long, strong doll making needle, draw the first two threads through the hole and out the base of the head (I prefer to take mine out the back, right by the hardboard joint, but out the front is okay too). Repeat.
Draw final threads out through back of ear on other side of head to the side you are working on (my ear is pinned at this point, but not sewn ... eye finishing is hidden when ear is stitched on).
So now you've got four threads at the base of the head and four threads hanging out from the ear.
Using Thumb to gently depress eye with one hand whilst balancing head between knees (!) pull the base threads until eye is exactly where you want it - then fasten threads neatly, loosing ends by weaving in and out of head around the joint.
Before doing anything with ear threads, repeat the whole process with your other eye.
Now you have two level eyes sunk into your head.
To finish and give the final tweak of life to your eye positioning, fasten the ear threads in the same way, taking care not to tie anything off until your bear is looking at you adoringly, rather than squinting!!
Use your thumb throughout to encourage the eye into the exact position you want - this helps to take the strain off the thread and the loop.
I used to sink the socket first with extra strong thread, but often found that it recessed the eyes too deeply by the time I'd fastened them in. I've never tried the tiny stitches thing ... how does that work?
Kim-Bee BearsI put my face "together" without the head being sewn up on the bottom so I dont get dimples in the back of the head at all.... I need to learn to sculpt a bit more.. I think I will try the bridge thing on my next head that I complete... I think this might be the answer to "what are my bears missing" 
Winneybears and FriendsLots of different ways to do it.....I tried to sculpt the sockets first..problems I had were;
I got the sockets too deep....or sockets not the SAME depth...
or when I went to install the eyes after sculpting... I happen to cut a sculpting thread ...Agh !
So now I Install the eyes TEMPORARILY...threads end up at the back bottom of the neck, under the joint.
..I'll tie it into a bow, since the thread is WAXED it will hold for now...I may take a few eye sculpting stitches which can be hidden under the eye edges, no need to worry about accidently cutting a thread here...
Now..the reason for sculpting is to sink the eyes...make a nose bridge.....and to take the pressure off the glass eyes.
Actually...my eyes look quite sunken in already...I think its because I don't stuff rock hard ( which can cause me a problem with too sunken in eyes ) I leave the neck open until the face is done so I have the option to ADD MORE stuffing anywhere it feels or looks like it needs it.. I always add stuffing after emb. the nose.
So... If I am installing eyes and find they just sink in too much then I loosen the eye threads ... and go back to stuffing !!!!
This whole process is a BALANCING act...to support and keep elements in their place...since everyone works differently because of when they add certain elements you are going to run into different problems..like I do with the eyes sinking in too much .
Sometimes a nose gets ascewed...that may be too little stuffing on one side than the other.. or I am pulling on the threads/ head in different places??? Actually I quit having this problem when I started using fine excelsier in the nose end till it was hard then stuff the rest really firm.
OK...so back to the eye thing...you may want to try changing your order of installing elements but first Id take a good look at what you are actually doing...write your order down..and the problems you have .....be analytical ...when you do something it can maybe cause a potential problem elsewhere ?...then try something different and see what happens ....
What I found out about my work is I was not stuffing the head hard enough ...no support for the things I wanted to do to that face ....Winney
