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toadbriar Apr 27, 2006

I am googling while eating my afternoon snacky....forgive if I am slapdash with cites...!

from http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/myth/myth.html - website of the Criminal Justice Statistics Center:
"In sum, crime by children today is less frequent and less serious than 20 years ago. Of the 68,200 children arrested for an offense in 1978-80, 34.9% were for felonies. Of the 56,700 children arrested in 1996-98 in a much larger child population, 30.6% were for felonies."

from http://www.scienceblog.com/community/ol … 00520.html :

"Since 1980, arrest rates for juveniles age 13-17 accused of rape and robbery show no identifiable trend either up or down, and in fact have declined over the past 5 years. "

"Most of the increase in the arrest rate for aggravated assault for juveniles age 13-17 between 1984 and 1992 was not the result of increased numbers of assaults, but of a change in the way police report and classify arrests. Supporting this is the fact that even though there were more arrests for simple and aggravated assault during this period, the assault rate--measured through victim surveys--did not change during the same period. Further, assault arrests reported by police increased substantially even for age groups in which homicide rates were declining."

It might be different in Australia, but if Aus has more youth violence than CA or the US, I'll be astonished.

when it's warm enough, I'm lookin forward to going swimming without worrying about catching polio. w00t!

Daphne Apr 27, 2006

But ya know, regardless of STATISTICS... we know what we, as citizens of what ever country, state, county, city or town we live in, FEEL, SEE, EXPERIENCE in our own lives and how either peaceful or scary our own worlds are. How the knowledge of such senseless acts of violence make us feel about going into unlit parking lots, dropping our kids off at school, leaving our doors unlocked...

So, regardless of statistics, how each one of us is impacted and how those acts of violence effect our personal lives can not be soothed with numbers.

There is more than one side to everything.... I'm sure one can find statistics to prove how lack of faith has affected our morals and values... I'm sure one can find stats to prove there is indeed more overall violence than in years gone by.

I'm not here to argue that out. We're all entitled to our own opinions and views of our own world. Many of us hold the truth in our hearts and have our faith to guide us. If we all had that the world wouldn't be as it is. But biblical believers know what is predicted for the future, we're seeing it happen already, we know this will only get worse.

Might as well spread the love with our teddy bears while we can! 

Hugs,
Daphne

toadbriar Apr 28, 2006

thanks!
I am a visual learner, lol. I go to the site you list  - & I see this:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm

& can't figure how the info it provides jibes with your statistics.
Lookit that huge ski-slope of diminished crimes!

& then here is the graphs page for juvenile crime:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/offage.htm

it says "The proportion of serious violent crimes committed by juveniles has generally declined since 1993."
& "According to the victim's perception of the age of the offender, the number of serious violent offenses committed by persons ages 12 to 17 declined 69% from 1993 to 2004, while those committed by persons older than 17 fell 58%."

The graph shows a HUGE dramatic drop in crime rates since 1993. & has been lower than the previous 20 years
since ~1996!

So I guess there's cites & references for whichever point of view we seek to defend!  LOL

Of course as you suggest, all this is moot in the face of the stuff that traumatizes us in our own
lives. I think part of "the good old days syndrome" is that "the good old days" is back when, as
teenagers & younger, many of us felt quite immortal. As we grow older, we learn about all the
things in the world that CAN go wrong - many of us have children, & protectiveness makes these
dangers seem even more menacing.

I guess it's just a bummer for me to see all these artists bemoaning that the world is at its worst.
I mean, every generation starts its youth by thinking their parents screwed up, but they'll fix it. Then
a couple decades later, the same bunch thinks that the following crop of kids is sending humanity to
hell in a handbasket. I guess that despite the references to biblical values, I find the lack of faith
here stunningly dispiriting. I've seen acts of extraordinary kindness from people of all faiths & beliefs,
& I've seen horrible things done in the name of 'biblical values' by the prominent christians of the
world. I think most everyone is doing the best they can. I think anyone who practices a faith has been
called to it by a force as strong as what called me to mine, & I think that the world is in more danger
by human apathy & greed than human malice. I think that people who are frightened are easier to
boss around, & I am disturbed by the fact that sociopathic behavior is often rewarded by corporate
success. I think I am less likely to be a good samaritan if I am afraid of my fellow man.

The daffodils are blooming, my transplanted lilacs are leafing out, I finished a bunch of big
projects last week, & I finally got a bear to sew & the time to do it. catch y'all later.

Daphne Apr 28, 2006

My religion teaches me not to judge... judgement day will come for all...

My religion teaches me to turn the other cheek... God will take care of the offender...

My religion teaches me to FEEL, LOVE, have COMPASSION for others... not critisize, discard, hate or carry a heart of stone.

My religion teaches me the difference between good and evil, right from wrong... I don't need statistics to prove that.

Lisa, I admire your strength and knowledge of christianity. And you've made many fantastic points! You can be on my debate team any day!

I guess that despite the references to biblical values, I find the lack of faith
here stunningly dispiriting.  Lack of faith in what, Kim? A government that is corrupt? Terrorists? Violence? Misguided children taking guns to school? Oh, I have faith that God will see to it that each of these receives what He intends for them. And I have faith in the possibility that many will indeed be redeemed. And I have faith in the fact that things will get worse.

I guess it's just a bummer for me to see all these artists bemoaning that the world is at its worst.
Oh, the world is by far from at it's worst! And hmmm... ALL THESE ARTISTS? What, perhaps 5 or 6 of us have participated in this thread out of the 546 members? That's not many at all. And I don't see it as bemoaning but rather having FEELINGS and HUMAN RESPONSES and EMOTIONS to what goes on in the world around us... those living in civilization are faced with all the good and evil of the world every day!!!

It's often times those with FAITH that keep from becoming enraged and violent over what's happening around them or to them. You don't see Lisa or me on the 'Most Wanted Criminal' list now do ya? Hm, wonder what the statistics are for the chances of a teddy bear artist becoming a criminal.   :crackup:

plushkinbear Apr 28, 2006

Hm, wonder what the statistics are for the chances of a teddy bear artist becoming a criminal.   :crackup:

.....welll you never know! never say never!  :crackup:  :hug: 

Thank you ladies, for kind words about my dad...he will have another surgery today. i hope everything will be fine.

I'm sitting at my office and looking out of the window. We have a sunny day. It's very rare this year.. first warm day after snowing till last week..
I do hope that everybody will find some strenght to see good in the worst things.
I could hate and want to kill that guy who beaten up my Dad but I know for sure that right now I have no time and physical power to waste my time..My family need kind thoughtful and helpful Julia right now.
I will pray for everybody that was hurt in any way. ..including my dearst Dad.  :hug:  :pray:
Julia

Tracy Apr 28, 2006

Holy cow, did I ever open a can of worms with this thread!!    Lisa and Daphne--I am in total agreement with you gals and admire your strength of conviction here!    

I really believe that all of us have a right to our own opinions, and as such I have to post mine here as well.  I've been reading all these posts (and my head is spinning! ), and felt a bit unfairly 'judged' by a few comments.

I guess it's just a bummer for me to see all these artists bemoaning that the world is at its worst.  I certainly do not feel the world is at it's worst.  I know that throughout history there have been travesties committed of the worst kinds.  What bothers me about the here and know is that children are so often committing violent crimes....with a total lack of remorse for their actions.  I really believe much of this is due to desensitization to violence from video games, movies, music, the news, etc.  Children are bombarded by it every day of their lives...no matter how parents might try to shield them from it.  I have confiscated video games from my oldest son (gotten without my permission) that were horrifying in their content...and marketed to a teen audience to boot.  In these games, kids are actively trying to kill people, sometimes specifically police officers, dealing in guns and drugs and prostitution.  One could safely assume that playing games like this for hours like kids do, would eventually desensitize them.  This is just one example!  How about the movie King Kong that was recently released and is PG13?  I finally watched this the other night, and it is full of explicit violence.  There has been all kinds of toys and stuff from this movie.....all marketed to kids who shouldn't even be watching it!!  I found out after I watched it that my ex-husband had allowed our 4 year old to see it, which did not make me happy at all!    I was told by Zach that the movie was cool and didn't scare him one bit.  That worries me!! Words were definitely spoken to his dad, but who knows if he listened to me or not. 

As for kids in schools doing violent stuff - isn't it generally the picked on outcasts who lash out?
Not necessarily! 
I found out today that the person who started the fire with gasoline in Nathan's school this week was another boy in the 6th grade. (As far as Nathan knew, this kid is one of the bullying types!!)  Last year the one writing threats on the walls was in 5th grade.....probably only 10 or 11 years old!  That is frightening!  I know that some kids are bullied until they 'snap', and I feel for them, as I was bullied severely in high school myself.   However, that does not give them the right to lash out in such a violent way that can and does injure or kill innocent kids and teachers........and where are the morals that tell them killing people is wrong no matter what!  Besides, our school has an anti-bullying policy, like most schools do anymore, that is very strictly enforced.   I doubt their behavior can be blamed on bullies.  I have made it a point to teach my own sons that bullying behavior is NOT acceptable.  Nathan in fact, will defend the underdog in a situation like that.  I am proud of him!! 

As a mom, my protective instincts come screaming to life when I hear of things like this.  That's my job and the way it should be.  If that makes me a moaner, so be it!  I'll keep on moaning until somebody hears and things are done about the problem!!  I have a voice, and it CAN be heard!! 

:hug:
Tracy

I Love Teddies Apr 29, 2006

Tracy,

That is really scary.  I'm glad no one was hurt, but it must have been very scary.   :hug:  :hug:  :hug:

toadbriar Apr 29, 2006

my intention had been to show a differing perspective, & what I see as one of
hope (it IS my middle name, after all) but I didn't respond today because I didn't
want to do it when I felt like I'd been put on the defensive.

'Love one another' is a pretty important tenet, right? That seems like the most important
thing, so it's what I've been working on & I've given it a lot of thought. For me, I can't love
someone until I respect them. If I respect them, I give them the benefit of the doubt
to assume they're doing the best they can with what they've got, just as I am. If
they're doing horrible things, well, the world is full of stuff I can't understand. I can
try to understand why they do what they do, without excusing it, & then lets's put them
where they can't hurt others. But trying to love, respect, & understand people is what
I mean by 'faith' - faith to me means assuming that other folks in the world are for the
most part doing their best. That's the belief I don't see shared much in this thread - I get
the feeling that folks posting here think it's extinct or nearly, so, having gone out of fashion
with horse drawn wagons & poke bonnets, so we should go back to Little House days when
people cared about each other. I don't see it that way. I think people were as bad then, &
as good now. I think we're mostly all the same really, except for the details.
I'm sorry if this gets people's dander up.

We're here for teddy bears & there's nothing more nostalgic than a teddy, but was
there ever really a perfect time? I think the same problems that plague us now have
been with us all along. That's the point I was trying to make. If it came across like I
was trying to pee in your cheerios, I'm sorry. But Daphne, it seems like you're cheering
for the apocalypse to hit before memorial day, & that's fine if you're into that I suppose,
but you'd miss out on a lot of the fun of being an old broad if you ascend into heaven first,
& I'm kind of looking forward to that stuff myself. But then again I get sad enough when good
books end, let alone the world.

As for children & video games etc - I know plenty of folks who've grown up on violent
video games, loud music, role playing games, horror comic books, scary movies,
& all the other bugaboos which get blamed for antisocial behavior. These are perfectly
fine people, as are the vast majority of folks who partake of these things.
(that's not to say I am happy to see little kids at R rated movies)

I think the only common thing among violent children & people in general is a lack of
empathy, & a sense of entitlement - entitlement to whatever they like, at anyone else's
expense. Parents can tell me, I'm sure, how old children are when they learn to understand
empathy - if it is taught. Well before the child develops an interest in violent video games or
scary movies, I should think. & I think we can agree that a sense of entitlement is a
taught thing too, isn't it? There's plenty of books on what goes into making a sociopath.
I've only read a few of them, but the above two bits seem pretty important.

I don't really think non-psychotic people get confused about things in a game vs. things
in real life. (Unless you join a cult maybe, but those brainwashing sessions venture pretty
close to induced psychosis anyhow, what with all the sleep deprivation.)

Anyhow I needed to do the real important stuff - chill with the husband, sew on a bear, dig
in the yard, & syringe feed a dying pet rat - before I came back to this thread. I hope I've
responded with good grace. & by the way, a friend suggested I check out this book, & I
thought I might pass it along here - it looks interesting & seems relevant & it got decent reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/046501 … e&n=283155

Have a good weekend & get into the sun if you can,
-kim, remembering to sign a post for once

Daphne Apr 29, 2006

KIM:
FAITH def.
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
: belief and trust in and loyalty to God : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion : firm belief in something for which there is no proof : complete trust : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially a system of religious beliefs
(Taken from Mirriam-Webster))

This is what I have been referring to when I say FAITH..... not in man but in God, religion. That puts what I've been saying in a totally different context than what you've been aiming at.

But Daphne, it seems like you're cheering for the apocalypse to hit before memorial day, & that's fine if you're into that I suppose, but you'd miss out on a lot of the fun of being an old broad if you ascend into heaven first

Again, you are making a very incorrect assumption or analysis of what I've written. I have simply stated that what we see going on in the world is indeed only going to get worse. We've been warned of this in the bible. It's a fact. No one knows when and personally I hope it's long after I've left earth!

And the old broad remark.... perhaps that's what you think of yourself as and so be it, but I find that to be a very disrespectful term to call an older or elderly lady, never mind direct it someone you don't even know.

I couldn't be bothered to read the rest of your post.

Many of us have been speaking based on facts and how we see the world in respect to our religious beliefs. We are each going to have our own views of things. And frankly, the human race is so complicated and there are so many issues or circumstances that factor in to the cause of violence that it's impossible to say for sure what really is the cause for it, whether it is worse or better than in years gone by and who or what is to blame. A little of everything is likely to blame, common sense will tell you that.

How we perceive the world impacts what we do with our daily lives so this is indeed as important of a matter to consider as 'hanging' with our husbands or making teddy bears.

We all need to remember that what we say here, how WE view the world, how we feel is our individual take on things. Doesn't mean the other person is wrong, doesn't mean they are right. We're just sharing our views and trying to help eachother see where we are coming from. So before you pick things apart and criticize what the other is saying you need to understand what they've said frist and take it at face value.

toadbriar Apr 29, 2006

it's obvious that my intention isn't being heard. I didn't "attack" anyone,
& referring to what I am responding because it gives me different ideas from
the poster's does not in any way equal me "shooting them down as imbeciles"

good grief.

if me disagreeing & showing why I disagree is enough to tweak you off, I can't
help you, & all my explaining in the world won't do a bit of good. But because
I can be bullheaded sometimes, for the record I was trying to keep the tone light
but folks chose to take offense. "old broad"? I can't wait to be one (some of my friends
say I already am one at 31) & my family's full of them. Old broads say what they think,
you know where they stand, they laugh loud & don't stop having a fun attitude just because
they're not young enough to get carded anymore. If this is offensive - & at this point,
maybe for here it just might be - then I clearly don't belong. I'm happy to leave more
room for hug icons than actual differing points of view.

& for the record, I don't see where I have to write  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug: to people
who have suffered tragedy to show them respect. Apparently the posters who were having
the same 'argument' as I was, but on the other side, were also distracting from the apparent
true purpose of the thread, which was in fact  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug: But it's fine if you want
to single me out.

Oh & I dunno why the word 'BEMOAN' twists your knickers so much:

be·moan   Audio pronunciation of "bemoan" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (b-mn)
tr.v. be·moaned, be·moan·ing, be·moans

   1. To express grief over; lament.
   2. To express disapproval of or regret for; deplore: “Tom Brokaw of NBC News recently bemoaned ‘the cancer of the sound bite’ afflicting Presidential campaigning” (John Tierney).

(so now I wonder if Tom Brokaw is now writing angry emails to dictionary.comabout John Tierney)

enjoy, ladies

Helena Apr 29, 2006

Oh....I don't know whether I should post this or not because this all sounds wayyyy too heavy for me (and I seriously hope we can all find common ground in this discussion!).

But just for the record - I've been heavily into researching my family history over the past few years, and have gained a whole new perspective on the way my ancestors lived during the last two to three hundred years. And while I appreciate the simplicity of life back then and know I can learn lessons from it, I am also grateful to live in the present and appreciate our modern world with all it's advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes I could cry for the situations my ancestors found themselves in. I'm not saying they weren't happy or didn't lead fulfilling lives, but the high rate of child mortality, the grimy industrial conditions (in our area), the poverty and disease, the long & hard working conditions with very few social support systems etc etc., all these things have really opened my eyes. The good things of course include a greater sense of family and community.

Times are just changing, that's all. I worry for my daughter, growing into the kind of youth culture that is prevalent today. It's scary! I daresay, though, that my great-great-grandparents worried just as much for their children, who were generally working in the mills by the age of ten and much more likely to contract a serious disease before they reached their 'full age' (21).

I am so, so sorry to hear about your dad Julia - that is just terrible and I'll be thinking about you and wishing him a full and speedy recovery :hug:.

psichick78 Apr 29, 2006

Helena, I am sooo with you!

I don't know if I should post here either. I stay away from most politics and religion discussions. I find it very futile to try and change someones beliefs. But it can also be good to talk about it, that's how we all learn from eachother

But I did want to add that I've also taken a real interest in my grandparents history. Fleeing Hungary with kids on thier backs, just to bring them to a safe country full of opportunity. CANADA!

I don't wish I live in communist country, and I'm glad I am free. My man repects me as an equal and i can choose any profession I want within reason.

On the other hand, I can think of this way. Generations ago, kids would sneak to the back of the school to have a cigarette. Now they are sneaking back there to smoke pot. In 40 years what will they be sneaking off to smoke?

A scarey thought to someone contiplating having kids. Am I just being too idealistic in thinking that if I have kids, they won't be the bullies, criminals or 10yrs old thinking about breast implants. I hope I can instill my values in them. Explain to them as they watcha brittany Spears video that it's sad, and it's not real. Talk to them, pay attention to them. LOVE them.

Please, tell me if I'm wrong. I don't want to be shocked if I'm wrong.

So really, I agree with a bit of everything. Daphne, great points.
Kim I agree with you as well. I totally see it from your perspective.

Nothing is ever just black and white. There is always a middle ground somewhere.

I think of this alot...................

" We have no control over most things in our life.
The only thing we do have control of is how we choose to feel about what happens around us. "

Daphne Apr 29, 2006

Am I just being too idealistic in thinking that if I have kids, they won't be the bullies, criminals or 10yrs old thinking about breast implants. I hope I can instill my values in them. Explain to them as they watcha brittany Spears video that it's sad, and it's not real. Talk to them, pay attention to them. LOVE them.

Heather:
You are NOT being too idealistic! All you can do is teach your children well.... morals, values, right from wrong, respect, self-confidence, open communitcation with you and lots of love! They'll have a much better chance than many and more apt to turn out OK. Every child stumbles, is tempted by peers, etc. But with a parent's proper love and guidance they'll weather the challenges better than those without.

:hug: for being a very mature and responsible future parent!

Cleathero Creations Apr 29, 2006

Hmm we seem to debating the same side from different angles.  We agree that media brings attention to the bad things in the world and make it seem so bad.  news rarely reprts al lthe wonderful thiongs that do happen!
We all agree that people are to blame.
We all agree that as one person ourselves we can step forward to improve the world.
We differ on aspects of it.  And beecause we are typing rather then speaking tones and nuances in conversation can be lost and misinterpereted.  Where normally if I am talking to someone and they disagree their facial expression will change, quite often that will lead to a clarification from me and they go Aaaah ok.  Where when typing we do't have that benefit.
Now I agree with points from everyone and disagree with points from everyone too but the one thing we have definately agreed on is that Tedy Bear makers are doing good things because we are spreading love throuhgout the world!

Daphne Apr 30, 2006

  :clap:    :clap:    :clap: