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Storytime BearsThe thing that makes me the maddest in all of this, is that ebay has given us no choice but to have a private auction, whether we want it or not. I think as many collectors or artists that do not like this new system should write to ebay and voice their dislike for it, if they hear from enough people they will change it. Ebay really does a good job trying to make their site better. I think their heart was in the right place I just think they dropped the ball on this one.
Flying Fur StudiosInteresting topic, I'm not sure what I think at this point.
I obviously think it's wrong, and like Jodi says you can see it happening now and then, but is it an issue? I think so, I also think some bears go for crazy high prices and I just can't see why, compared to what else is out there. Maybe there are pity bids, or friends helping friends.
I know I will never know the whole story, but if something doesn't make sense, than usually it's not true.
Jodi says
OK say an hypothetical artist lists something and it just sits there with no bids for awhile then they go private and bam they get bids, what does everyone think about that? does it look wrong???????? or is that just meI think it looks funny. There are WAAAAY too many scams on ebay not to think something's up. Just because you make bears, doesn't mean you're a good person. Only if you make bears and come on TT LOL :crackup:
Storytime BearsHeather I LOVE you! 
you gave me a good giggle
Posts: 8,574I have had it happen to me. I was terribly uncomfortable with it. I would rather have had the item not sell. I knew this person did not have the money to make the reserve, so why bid at all?
The person who did it was trying to help and be supportive. I understood that and gently wrote that while it may look like I need that help it would be better not to as it isn't honest.
It is dishonest.
We wouldn't do it at an auction at Christies.
I believe we need absolutes in our lives. And fraud is an absolute. We need to know what it is, recognize it as illegal and worse, immoral and avoid it.
The other thing to consider: if we are willing to cut corners here what other corners would we be willing to cut? Would we be willing to shoplift? Would we be willing to hook into our neighbors electricity and steal that, leaving them with the bill? Would we pocket the $20.00 overage that was in our favor at the grocery store?
Where there are absolutes life is really much easier. Stealing is wrong. By shill bidding you are in essence stealing that amount from the winning bidder...
I did discuss it with a friend who knew about it and she explained how to go about removing a bid, but when I got back to remove the bid someone had already bid. I really felt conficted until I talked to that person and she told me not to worry about it. She was very gracious.
But I resolved then that I would do everything in my power to avoid it in the future.
If I know it and say nothing I am participating in fraud, that doesn't fit in my world.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke
It was true in the 1700's and is true today.
Flying Fur StudiosI'm sure lots of mistakes are reported. There are lots of people on ebay with nothing better to do than to cruise auctions and report them to ebay for minor infractions, it sucks but it happens.
Just like with any case anywhere, innocent people are accused, but what can you do? Let the wrong ones go?
Jennifer this is so funny, I went to your website just last night and loved it! what a cool site!
Bear hugs
Jodi
THANK YOU Jodi!!! I am getting used to navigating a blog. I like it though. Still needs a custom header which is literally on the drawing table.
Geez, I must be a rookie...that shill stuff never even crossed my mind! I often seen items with high bids that I find to be very amateur artwork and think, "what tha?"
I agree, total fraud. And who on earth would want that? I mean, as an artist, it means the world to me when people bid, even if they watch my auctions. If they don't buy it...my feelings might be hurt for an hour until I go to Plan B...rework the piece. If that doesn't work, give it as a gift.
Artificially enhancing your auction is not being an true artist, it's being a con-artist.
Posts: 8,574Lemon Wolf,
Your story was beautiful. I think it is wonderful that your bears were able to help this new friend and customer. That is something to be proud of for sure!
Congratulations-what a great gift you gave this gentleman and his wife.
dilu
Tami Eveslage Original Teddy BearsI agree with Chrissi completely. Shill bidding should not be allowed. But we can't just assume things. I think many of us have "regulars" who like our bears and bid on them and repeat collectors, some of whom become our friends. I have a very good friend who I met eleven years ago at my first show. She has 13 of my bears, and her most recent "adoption" was from ebay!
Also, I guess I'd better read my rules better because I didn't know that ebay forbids family members from purchasing from you. I had a little one of a kind Halloween bear listed and when my brother and his wife came over they fell in love with him and wanted to bid on him. I didn't tell them not to. He was one of a kind and that would be the only way for them to get him. They didn't end up bidding at all, because he went too high for their budget before they had a chance to. But still, it seems unfair that they wouldn't have been allowed to.
Flying Fur StudiosTami, I agree, I don't know how I feel about family memebers not being able to bid. How can they even monitor that? Sure I understand the reason behind it, but it's still silly to me.
Flying Fur StudiosI noticed Melissa, congrats. I wasn't suprised at. I was happy because you might make more now!
Storytime BearsTami I agree I think the example you bring up had no bad intention, and I do not ever think ebay would go after that. As I said before I think everybody wants return customers. Their intention was honest .
And Dilu that was an honest mistake, again I do not think it falls under what ebay looks for.
Posts: 1,836This is exactly the point I was making. Please dont' take offense at the quoting, it's out here so I'm making reference to for the discussion and not at all thinking that these quotes are wrong in any way. Opinions are great! "less desirable" "what tha" "I just can't see why" .....all perfectly fine personal feelings on art. I personally find a giant white canvases with a single red dot in the middle amateur, but one is hanging in the Phila Museum of art right now and it's valued at more than my car. I wouldn't pay it, I don't get it, but that's art. It can't be about the personal visual feelings, when assuming fraud or value of art. Even appraisals don't mean anything in auction settings.
I worked for a good while with a Quality Assurance area. It was the coolest thing I've ever done..very thorough, very detailed, very fact oriented. You can take red flags and investigate..but the red flags need to be for anyone and everyone..not just the lower income single mom with bad credit..the upper income father with 4 houses is just as worthy of investigation if the standard flags are present. Otherwise fraud isn't the only illegal thing going on..personal feelings, discrimination, and a boat load of other things are coming into play. Random samplings across the board is how most big corps operate. I"m sure eBay has those practices in place.
One other point...by calling for investigations and having other artists worked investigated I just hope we don't inadvertently create a hostile environment out on eBay where anyone can cry wolf <bear> and see anothers work pulled. That would be horrid.
I have to go now...a green st patty bear leg just walked out of the studio...the large beast carrying it is trying to tell me to get to work. (the leg is inside out still and not harmed in any way..at all!! not even a drop of drool <whew>) 
:hug:
~Chrissi
Delartful BearsIt is completly wrong. It makes the honest auctions looks as if they aren't doing something right or if there's something dodgy. You wouldn't believe how many people do it in the re-boring. Unfortunatly a couple of shillers have been reported to eBay, who did it again and again and again. Unfortunatly eBay wouldn't act any of the cases which makes me believe they aren't very serious on getting tough on the situation.
I just wish people would be honest. I personally hate the idea of artist's ripping off the collactors!
Danni
Storytime BearsMaybe I am thick and you all have answered me, but how do you all feel about ebays new private system, if you like it, give me reason to like it, because as I said, I hate it, am I alone on this?????? I don't want it and not sure if there is anything I can do.
Storytime BearsMelissa WoooHoooo :dance: I knew it would do well, see it was a winner!!!!!!!!!!
As I said before I almost fell off my chair , so happy for you!!!!!!!!!!!
LuxembearsI think shill bidding is only wrong but very unethical. What ebay should do is allow people to see who is bidding but [b]NOT GIVE THEM ACESS TO be able to contact bidders[/b]?
It's not rocket scince.
I hate it, Jodi, and I'm a little resentful that I'm going to be forced to use it on my next auction if my item exceeds $200. Which it will, because my reserve exceeds $200! I haven't used eBay since they implemented the new change.
I believe there are good and legitimate reasons for private auctions and I respect any artists choice to use them. However, I do think they have the POTENTIAL to mask shill bidding and for that reason -- so that my auctions would be totally transparent to anyone looking -- and because I never liked how you were unable to see sold items when the auctions were Private, I've never used them.
Perhaps I don't really understand how private auctions work in the first place; as I said, I've never run one. From the Seller's vantage point, is there any difference between a Private Auction and this new Bidder1, Bidder2 thing? In other words, in a Private Auction, can the Seller see the names of his/her bidders?
And what about the viewing public? A private auction looks just like this new version, right, to the Bidders and the viewing public?
So what exactly was eBay trying to achieve with this change?
I feel a little under-read on this issue; it's probably been answered elsewhere and I missed it. But I don't get what the goal was here, on eBay's part. How is this "better?"
Clueless and confused,
Shel
Dolls N DreamsGreat topic....
Private Auctions................... I use to always use them on my doll auctions because a lot of my customers hid the purchases from the hubby! LOL... Have not really used them on my bear creations. I don't really see the use.
Shill bidding.............. NO NO NO, If you shill bid or have friends , family bid on your items, you should be suspended from Ebay.
Back 10 years ago when I first started making dolls and selling them on Ebay, I was shocked to see the high prices certain artists would get for their dolls. Until I found out a lot of them were shill bidding.
I'm glad Ebay
is more aware of this and they KNOW when people are shill bidding.
It is just wrong!!!
OK,
I have a lot of faith in our ebay bidders. Yes, I think it is more difficult with the blind bidding, but I think serious collectors can tell when an auction has shill bidding. I know I suspect when an artist who is new to ebay starts getting high bids right out of the gate 
. There's a certain rhythm to bidding. It's true some artists skyrocket right to the top but, usually, it's very obvious why. Shill bidding can only work for so long. An artist has to stand on their own merit and I think the market will win out. I do believe ebay collectors are pretty smart :clap:
Karen
Flying Fur Studiosok, so a question.
What good is shill bidding. Are they hoping the legit bidders will raise their bids? What if it doesn't work, are you now stuck with your bear? I imagine if you offer it on ebay right away again, people will know what you're up to.
Or do people do it, so it looks like their work is selling for lots of money to create a demand?
I'm confused
Not sure Heather what you would do if somebody didn't go higher than the shill bidding, that is the whole point isn't it?....I guess if that was me and I had the dishonesty and lack of integrity to shill bid (NOT SAYING THAT I HAVE OR EVER WOULD I AM JUST BEING HYPOTHETICAL) but I wouldn't relist it, I would take it out behind the woodshed and burn it so that no one ever found out!!!! :crackup: :crackup:
Hugs,
Krista
Flying Fur Studios:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: 
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
YOU'RE the one that has been starting those BC fires.....................
Speaking as a TT Help Advisor in this moment...
As I mentioned on another thread, please let's all be careful not to make assumptions here, especially since we are mostly third party observers to this situation, and we therefore can't -- and don't -- have the full story. I'm sensing -- maybe incorrectly -- that emotions are starting in some cases to run high.
I don't see any finger-pointing in this thread and I don't see any one artist being singled out or blamed. That's terrific and entirely in keeping with the new RULES OF USE as posted earlier this week.
As an Advisor and someone charged with reminding about and upholding those RULES, I thank you all for being so thoughtful in your comments; for speaking in generalities; and for sharing your honest, even if divergent, opinions.
You're appreciated!
:doh: OH Man, You guys figured it out :doh: well didn't start them but may have added to them!!! :crackup: :crackup: Isn't that what you guys do with your rejects or was I misinformed!!!??? :crackup:
Hugs,
Krista
Posts: 1,836Personally I've not had a mini bear hit the $200 mark and I'm only now going back to using ebay occasionally. As a buyer and a seller I don't like the new system...not at all. Not a well thought out plan on eBay's part in forcing everyone to become a private auction based on dollar amount alone. I can understand the concept of protecting buyers from scams and unsolicited inquiries, but this was probably the fasted and easiest fix for eBay....not the sellers that support eBay's survival. If we're unhappy with it the only way for them to address is to hear it. Are other sellers unhappy as well (furniture, antiques, collectibles, etc)? Are there forums to find out?
:hug:
~Chrissi
