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ToadBriarI'm guessing that she just named him 'Vivisection Vinnie' for sake of
the alliteration & 'vivisection' being a suitably 'icky' word. 'Visceral Vinnie'
would have worked just as well & probably been more appropriate on
a couple of different levels!
It's not my taste but I like that it exists. I don't believe that art should only
be beautiful. & different points of view can certainly provide different
& interesting attitudes - heck I know some folks who would be more
disgusted at real fur teddies & bears with leather parts, than this one,
which appears to be synthetic fur & acrylic paint. They'd be offended by
dead animal skins being manipulated to look 'cute'. Not my point of view,
but IMO valid.
Renae that tenement fire photo you describe sounds...wow. Harrowing.
I haven't ever seen it but I have seen similar scenes from 9/11. I don't
think it's a matter of gawking at an atrocity, but it's the only way we can
feel the reality of a situation sometimes, & empathize with the people in
the picture who are more like us than is comfortable - "there but for
the grace of God go I" sort of thing. At least that's my feeling. I can't
imagine how the surviving family must feel. I can't in good conscience
put journalistic photos in the same mental category, though; nothing
suffered to make this bear. & it does spark some interesting thought!
it reminds me of an art exhibit I saw within the past couple years: common
cartoon characters like Betty Boop, Charlie Brown, Powerpuff Girls, etc, but with
a parchment paper overlay for each one, showing a very 18th century looking, faithfully
realistic study of what their skeleton must be shaped like. Naturally the skulls were freakish,
huge, with unnaturally round eye sockets, tiny mandibles, etc. It was funny & grotesque &
weird & absurd. I loved it 
This bear reminds me of it.
Aha! here they are: http://michaelpaulus.com/gallery/character-Skeletons
I think it's cool that this bear challenges us to re-think what makes a bear a bear,
does it have to evoke a certain response, look a certain way, etc. I suspect that
if it didn't spark that sort of reaction, the artist might be disappointed.
Wahoo Dianne
GETTING BACK back to the issue you raised i completely agree with you...
Animals suffer to much...ESPECIALLY BEARS...
Have you seen wispas new telvision advert 
About deliverence of the poor dancing bear....
http://www.wspa-international.org/campa … aignType=4
IT IS WRONG FOR PEOPLE TO SELL BEARS TO MAKE MONEY EXPLOTING THE IDEA OF VIVISECTION ... 
BUT THEY PROBABLY HAV'ENT EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT THAT FACT.... THEY ARE JUST MAKING THE BEARS AS SHOCKING AND CRUDE AS THEY CAN TO SELL AS GOTHIC FASHION ACCESSORY ITEMS????
And they have now got the horrors on buy it now.
IVE JUST READ THE DISTURBING TEXT TO GO WITH THE LISTINGS????? :wacko:
'he is very durable and can take a lot of punishment(as long as your willing to risk being punished back.)'
ME THINKS ITS A BIT SICK....
It's not my taste but I like that it exists. I don't believe that art should only
be beautiful. & different points of view can certainly provide different
& interesting attitudes - heck I know some folks who would be more
disgusted at real fur teddies & bears with leather parts, than this one,
which appears to be synthetic fur & acrylic paint. They'd be offended by
dead animal skins being manipulated to look 'cute'. Not my point of view,
but IMO valid.I think it's cool that this bear challenges us to re-think what makes a bear a bear,
does it have to evoke a certain response, look a certain way, etc. I suspect that
if it didn't spark that sort of reaction, the artist might be disappointed.
I agree with these well-considered points made by Kim. The bear in question is not remotely to my taste but I, too, like that we live in an age, in a world, where something this controversial and potentially offensive can exist, nonetheless.
I also agree that art doesn't have to be beautiful, pretty, soothing, functional, or utilitarian. In fact I made a similar point in another thread where I spoke of the artistic value -- to my eye, anyway -- of a purse crocheted from metal wire, which I saw on a TV craft show. I wouldn't buy it or use it, and I don't really "like" it (can you imagine how scratchy it might be?) But I entirely appreciate the vision and originality and skill and talent that went into the creation of it.
Along those same lines... check out this website, for a jewelry designer who makes the most interesting, beautiful, found-object necklaces and bracelets. They wouldn't match much of what's in my wardrobe and they look scratchy as all get-out, but I can't stop staring at the ingenuity of them, and the beautiful way she arranges her pieces, and the sheer genius of some of the odd materials she's used in her creations.
http://www.susanlenartkazmer.net/
Kim makes a good point, too, I think, when she says that, while this bear is clearly offending some people with its reference to vivisection -- in my opinion, that offense is a good thing; I don't support the mutiliation of animals myself -- it may be viewed as utterly benign by other people, if held to a side-by-side comparison with a real fur, leather-pawed bear.
Which would be worse for the animal lover, do you think? The reminder that animals can be exploited and treated cruelly, as related to Vivisection Vinnie ... or the blatant, point-blank EVIDENCE of that exploitation and cruelty, in the form of a cute, cuddly, soft, bee-yooooo-ti-ful teddy bear, MADE OF REAL FUR, with LEATHER pawpads.
???
Don't answer; I intend this as a rhetorical question, so it doesn't need one.
I'm just agreeing with Kim in what I think I see are her larger points. Namely:
1.) That what offends one person might be benign to another, who sees worse offense in different things... and that
2.) WOW, but isn't it great that we live in a world where all these possibilities to express and create and think and react and and discuss and decide and purchase and feel, can all EXIST.
For the record: I'm entirely with Diane/Nettie. I think this bear is hideously ugly and I don't like that it has an association with vivisection. I also tend to believe, as Dilu wrote in a post somewhere else, that what we shove into our heads (and lives) sorta creates how we see the world and act within it. So on this point, on a certain level, my first response is to think, "I wish this bear didn't exist." I worry that it encourages people to minimize the horrors of vivisection and laugh at them, thinking, "Wow... Vivisection sure makes for a cute stuffed toy!"
In conjunction with that, though, I'm also entirely with Kim. I think she made some incredibly intelligent, tolerant, fair-minded and thought-provoking comments on art -- on why it sometimes exists, and how, even when viewing it is difficult or painful, it is the very difficulty of that experience, and the thoughts and feelings that arise from it within us, that can change and grow us in positive ways. And isn't that at least a part of what art is supposed to be and do?
I don't remotely experience Kim as pro-vivisection, or as someone blind to the potential impact that negative images like this might have. I do experience her as saying, more globally, that tolerating such a thing is, in the big picture, a better choice than CENSORING it. I, for one, do not want to live in a world where I'll never see a Vivisection Vinnie again... but where I also won't have religious freedom, freedom of speech, and so on. And in a way, complaining about the fact that this hideous bear exists and is being sold for profit, is just one step shy of insisting that it NOT exist. Which, in fact, IS censorship. We might not like that this ugly bear mockery which minimizes animal cruelty is being sold for profit. But in condemning it so harshly, and wishing it into non-existance, we as a species start crossing the line into censorship ever so insidiously. And where, after such a boundary crossing, would artistic censorship land next? Deep, scary stuff, that.
Last, I like to remember that we all have free will, and that tolerance is a good thing. If everyone in the universe held my exact same position on everything, what a boring world it would be.
And, frankly, I'd settle for just my husband and kids agreeing with everything I say! That would make everything JUST RIGHT!
:)
PS Kim -- I LOVED those little cartoon skeleton things. Very nicely done! Thanks for the link.
Hugs,
I do agree in part with almost everything said here.I think I feel a special allegiance to the animal that pays my mortgage every month.I hate censorship but then I do think some bondaries cannot and should not be crossed.History has taught us this.
I have always found the use of real fur in bear making a bit of a mystery.I don't get it and don't fancy ever touching one never mind owning one but then lots of people obviously don't find this offensive.I have looked at this persons other bears and think some are quite funny and well made.I cannot change my mind on the use of Vivisection in the name .I am not religious but have to hang on to my belief that some things are just wrong in my mind and that I feel obliged for the bears sake to speak out.The older I get the more i can see other peoples point of view .
After posting about the article that made me so upset in the Teddy bear and friends magazine I remember thinking how nice it must be to not care but then on reflection I am pleased to still be able to get upset.I hope I never get blase about abuse to animals.
I am glad there are lots of replies as it shows we all care.
Hugs Diane
Diane, I hope you never get blase about abuse to animals either. I also hope you never stop feeling free to share your thoughts and feelings on subjects of import to you.
I just want to be sure that EVERY person who visits TT feels that same freedom.
If we share things with one another in a positive spirit, with the intent to offer food for thought -- not criticism or condemnation -- like you did with your post, Diane, and if we discuss points of view with respect and tolerance, then we ALL win.
Thanks for your thoughtful content. It really got me thinking. In a good way!
Hugs,
ToadBriarNettie I have had that "it must be nice not to care" feeling at times too, at times
of tiredness & frustration & feeling overwhelmed (& low blood sugar lol); but I
come to the same conclusion you do. It is good to still care, though we do have to
'recharge' with positive thoughts & feelings. Vets in certain areas & animal shelter people
sometimes suffer 'burnout' from the thoughtless cruel stuff they encounter on a day to day
basis - & for their own mental health have to get away from it. I speculate that police officers,
people who work with neglected/abused children, emergency medical people, etc might go through
a similar thing!
Bear making is pure 'good stuff' for me - therapeutic, good feelings, kind friends & good people
who also share the craft. So to have stuff like that trained russian dancing bears thing, & the thought of
vivisection & violence, & other stuff like that sneak in VIA the "teddy stuff", is rather an affront & a
surprising & unpleasant shock I can imagine. The basic emotional reaction is "this is my GOOD place,
what is THAT doing here??"
But at the same time (I AM a Gemini, I see a lot of points of view at once lol)
I can identify with the artist, going for an 'eeek!' reaction. I still like to get a
reaction but in my old age I've moved on to aiming for "wow that's AWESOME"
instead of "wow that's GROSS" these days lol
I hope my comments before didn't put any fur bear artists uncomfortable -
I'm not crazy about animals being raised/killed to make new fur coats etc,
but to have vintage furs, heirloom coats etc. used to make bears is certainly
understandible & even sensible to have it not go to waste. It's like the old
joke - 'Do you know how many creatures had to die so you could have that
coat???' "Yes - my Great Aunt Edna." 
& Shelli, that jewelry artist makes very cool stuff - it's kind of Mad Max found objects
tribal looking! I dig it!
Kim-Bee BearsHMMM... first thought HOLY MOLY THAT SCARED ME! I don't think I will be visiting that link again... I guess there are all types of art, that just doesn't happen to be my idea of art LOL...
The cartoon skeletons is actually very creative! Very neat! Those necklaces are awesome too!!! I also like the one on the front page! (I use to make jewelry in high school and wish I wouldn't have stopped! but I have a new hobby now 
)
Love Bud Bears by Sandy
Them bears would be great to scare away the kids on Halloween after you run out of candy.
They would also make a great best friend for that wiredo doll Chucky -I hated that stupid doll.
I hated that stupid doll.
Me too. Just so creepy! Striped knit shirt, big blue eyes, and a meat cleaver. Ewww! 
Winneybears and FriendsHe,he...iI hate that stupid doll too...he's a creep for sure...Winney
LuxembearsDiane, I have to tell you that ever since you posted this I have a new catch phrase around here...." What the Hang Dang....."! Hilarious!! Thank you. 
It sure beats saying other 'words'!!
eeek its horrid.
Lynette
Matilda Huggington-beareMy goodness Dianne. What a shock it must have been when you spotted him!!!!! Its hideous!!!!!
You certainly wouldnt want to get this one on Mothers day :crackup:
