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Kim-Bee BearsMaybe there could be a swap coordinator? Like a little “waiver” needs to be agreed to by the parties involved (oh, geez, look at me with my legal terminology coming out – HA!) stating that I, _______________ hereby agree to trade with ___________________ a __________ for a __________________ this _____ day of _________________, 2006.
I further hereby agree to hold TT, its advisors, etc. etc. harmless… etc… yadda yadda yadda…. and then the two waivers from the swappers will send their agreed to waiver to teh swap coordinator or am I just CYA too much? HA! I dont think it should be made that difficult.
Kim-Bee BearsOr maybe we could do something like – for example–
up for swapping is a 12”X15” piece of black sparse matted mohair
I will be willing to swap this mohair for
- another mohair style
- a synthetic of a neutral color
- a small bear
Anyone who is interested, please PM me
This is just an example… what do you think. And then have a picture and a pic that shows up like the Bears for Sale category
Good ideas, all of these.
Seems to me we're talking about two separate, but related, things here, folks... both of which we're calling SWAPS.
(1.) We're talking being able to post, in a separate subforum, what amounts to CLASSIFIED AD listings for SUPPLIES SWAPS, with photo thumbnails attached. Instead of buying your listed items, however, board visitors would offer you in trade for them, that you found desirable.
(2.) We're also talking about TEDDY BEAR SWAPS, hosted on this separate board. That requires significantly more thought and handling, I think, and more moderator involvement to make sure things run smoothly and feelings don't get hurt.
I was once a part of an online bear group that hosted teddy bear swaps (not supply swaps), and they had a SWAP COORDINATOR. There was a brief timeframe for signup. During that timeframe, the swap participants had to mail the coordinator some information -- including their person stats (home address, phone number, etc. -- for accountability), and very importantly, THEIR LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE IN BEARMAKING. I think the divisions were: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced. And the swap rules/guidelines spelled out, VERY clearly, what these definitions actually MEANT... so that no one accidentally placed him or herself into the wrong category, based on either self-important bravado (which would land that person in a category more advanced than he/she really is!), or on humility (which might land that person in a category less advanced than he/she really is.)
We could require submitted photos of your work in addition to that "paperwork" you complete yourself, for review by the SWAP COORDINATOR -- probably an Advisor here. If the Coordinator felt you were misplaced in your category, their decision would be final. That requires a lot of trust and faith in the fairness and objectivity of the Advisors, but is one way to make sure people are trading "even," for want of a better word. We all make beautiful bears, but it's true that some are new, and some are experienced; some make a bear in 10 hours, some make a bear in ten DAYS. These things matter.
We could, for the teddy bear swaps, also gather information on the KIND of bear you'd like to swap for... and the kind you would NOT.
The group I was in had extensive questions on this kind of stuff, and all swap participants were required to answer them to participate.
What do you think of this idea? It's not foolproof, but offers some protection against the kind of misunderstanding, and bad feelings, that surrounded our Jenn's recent swap experience.
Kim-Bee Bearssounds good... 
Kim=Beginner HA! :D
but what if someone from the "intermediate" or "advanced" bear category really really likes a bear from the intermediate or beginner category.. I am not trying to be a pain in your hiney LOL
Winneybears and FriendsTerrific idea! !!!! Other sites do swaps, so I guess they came up with the rules..of course they can be revised as we go along too.
My thoughts are to have 2 lists... 1) Offered/ swap items and 2) FREE for the costs of postage...
Also.. as soon as the item is sold or swapped, someone must mark it as such on the site...
Then as soon as it is paid or swapped for and recieved then ......transaction is over... the person who made the offer can mark it as such. Ill put up some phony offers here....
If I had a full length gray perssian coat, Id put it on the offered list and then say Id like to get a swap comparable to what I feel the value of the coat may be...$50 or best offer . Accepted either in USA dollars or stuff I can use...like glass eyes, eps. 12 mm. Please e-mail me with your offer.
Oops..forgot to say offer is made for USA only as shipping real fur, customs is a pain outside the USA.unless you have experience with this, I don't....
Another one.... I have a small box of wool yarn FREE except you pay the postage.. Oh, the yarn needs washing and is mostly muted colors, great for tiny ted hats and scarfs...I just have too much of it..
I have tons of older bear patterns, sizes 15" and up ...would love to swap for some small bear patterns, 6" to 12" ...one for one. we each pay our own postage.
Does anyone have any 1/2" to 1" pile Alpaca fabric in a light color ( 1/2 Yd or more, even sizabke scraps would do ) ...I have 12 each of 16 mm blue , amber, clear eyes on wires to trade..I paid ( price here, stock #, where bought ) for them 5 years ago...they are valued at ( price here) just to give you an idea of the value..
And so on....hey, I actually do have some of this stuff, he, he....Winney
sounds good...
but what if someone from the "intermediate" or "advanced" bear category really really likes a bear from the intermediate or beginner category.. I am not trying to be a pain in your hiney LOL
People would be able to specify which category(ies) of bearmaker they are willing to swap with. If I was only open to swaps with advanced bearmakers, I could say so. If I was open to swapping with any level, I could say that, too. Point is... the person decides for him or her self.
This would all be confidential, of course, "eyes only" to the Advisor working as Coordinator for a given swap.
It's possible that people might not find swap partners if everyone only wants to swap with, for example ADVANCED bearmakers... but those bearmakers won't swap with anyone at a less experienced level. We'd have to see how it plays out.
It would be okay to request a specific swap partner, too... but no promises made, and you have to accept what you get so long as it aligns with your requested "experience" level.
Just more thoughts....
Winney, your idea is good too. I'm not sure whether we should allow cash transactions, however. That gets into other stuff entirely. Putting a value on items is a great idea but taking that the next step to "cash for items listed" may open the board/Intercal to certain liabilities that straight swaps don't. More talk going on about this...
Keep it coming!
Back Road BearsOK, what happened to simple and straight forward?? HA! 
Sue Ann, if we aren't careful I agree Pandora's Box could wreck havoc!!!
Bear Swap & My 2 Cents: Rules and Guidelines....YES!!!! All great suggestions, Shelli.
Kim, if someone wanted a bear by a particular artist that badly, yet the swap didn't meet the guidelines, then said someone should contact the aritst directly and work something out on their own. My opinion, here. There is always someone who wants to break the rules before they are even made! Hee Hee! I'm laughing here.... not really being sarcastic! :hug:
Item Swap & My Other 2 Cents: Winney had some great ideas. Putting a value to the item to be swapped is a very good idea, a must in my book. Listing items willing to trade for very helpful too. I'm thinking there are so many grey areas to this kind of swap.... lots to think about and consider before going forward. All it takes is one unhappy swap to ruin it all!
Ok, well, I think my 4 cents is worth next to nothing but there it is! 
Daphne, your 4 cents is worth a million. Great points. THings we're discussing behind the scenes. We won't go live until it's all worked out. Don't lose faith, but be patient. There's a good thing brewing here.
Keep your ideas coming!
Kim-Bee BearsThere is always someone who wants to break the rules before they are even made! Hee Hee! I'm laughing here.... not really being sarcastic!
Kim= Rule Breaker LOL :twisted:
Muuuuhaaaahaaahaa!
I am just use to CYA LOL 
Back Road BearsCYA??
Kim-Bee BearsCover your @$$ HA!
Daphne wrote:
Kim, if someone wanted a bear by a particular artist that badly, yet the swap didn't meet the guidelines, then said someone should contact the aritst directly and work something out on their own.
I agree with this point completely.
We can't fairly think of swaps as "Here's my chance to get so-and-so's work for the cost of labor and materials only!" If people enter into swaps with this mentality we'll have big problems from the outset.
I believe we should think of teddy bear swaps as, "I'm willing to give THIS bear up... for a chance to get someone ELSE'S bear. Fun!"
For what it's worth... 
I think it would work if it was kept low key and not things of great value (bears really)People could post stuff they really didn't want and any usuable swap would be a bonus.I have never been in a position to swap bears much as I have wanted to.It would be great to get a bit fabric in exchange for a bit of no use.Quite exciting too!!!
In cases like this there would be no hurt feelings etc.I get the feeling the folks here wold be more inclined to give more than they receive .You all seem such sweetie pies!!!
Back Road BearsDaphne, your 4 cents is worth a million. Great points. THings we're discussing behind the scenes. We won't go live until it's all worked out. Don't lose faith, but be patient. There's a good thing brewing here.
Oh, I'm not losing faith! And have the patience of Job..... at the moment. I do think it can be a great thing if all the bases are covered. And, after past experiences and the thuroughness and fairness with which Shelli approaches everything, I know it'll be great! 
Didn't mean to sound pesimistic!!!
Go Intercal!
You don't remotely sound pessimistic; and thanks for the support. Covering the bases, I think, is the most important part of all... we need solid, concise rules to protect ALL involved. That will take some doing. Am researching and taking notes even as I type...
Estelles canal bears and Tod TeddiesI aggree with Nettie, I was thinking of small pieces of fabric, magazines, maybe eyes small items that can be posted easily at little cost that, way the ocean inbetween wouldnt be a problem :hug:
MerBear OriginalsI love all of the above ideas (anyone like pastel coloured mohair?)
I also like the idea of maybe being able to arrange to swap bears with an artist you admire. Kim's CYA suggestions are good and of course Shelli will make sure we have all the bases covered. Hope this works.
Marion
Hi Guys! Glad to see you're up and about now!!
I was thinking along the lines of the swapper dictating what they would like to swap their item for.
For example: I have a November issue of such'nsuch' UK mag and would be interested in swapping it for a July issue of such'n'such US mag.
That way potential swappee's would know exactly what is being requested in return.
I'm not sure how it would work with those daring members who would enjoy surprise swaps and would be open for swap 'offers' in return for their swap item!
Perhaps we need a simple code of swap conduct drawn up!
Kim-Bee BearsI LOVE colored mohair! and pastel!
Hmmn, also just a thought about postage ... I like the concept of anyone participating paying their own end of the postage. Keeps it simple and everyone knows where they stand if the rule is common to all.
As far as bear swaps go - would it work if for example, a maker/owner swapper had a bear to swap and offered to swap for whatever they specify as a preference ... as opposed to a hopeful potential swappee making a request for a particular artist's work? Does that make sense? I'm reading it again as I type trying to unravel what I'm trying to say here! 
Kim-Bee BearsI was thinking of the bear swap thing being like this is the bear I have, anyone who would like to swap, email me kinda thing
I was thinking of the bear swap thing being like this is the bear I have, anyone who would like to swap, email me kinda thing :)
Why didn't I just say that????? 
Kim-Bee Bearsbecause you wanted to try to confuse me!
:hug:
I was thinking of the bear swap thing being like this is the bear I have, anyone who would like to swap, email me kinda thing :)
That's good in principle, Kim... and thanks for bringing it up. But how would you feel if you posted that and got no replies? Even if no one but you knew that, it might smart a bit. That takes the fun and purpose out of swaps.
It also makes that particular bear of yours seem somewhat like a "cast-off." Why are you wanting to trade it? And so on.
What happens if 72 people respond to YOUR request for a swap... but NOBODY responds to Paula's, and every one can see that? Paula might feel to herself... "Why do they want KIM'S bear, but not MINE? Nobody here likes me, or my work. I hate TEDDY TALK. I'll never post here again." And so on.
(Paula, I know you're not that insecure and insipid. But allow me to use your name to make the point, if you would.)
I believe the most successful swaps are those where bears are made to a THEME, and specifically FOR that swap. But that's me; what do I know???
:)
I continue to feel firmly that if you want a particular artists work, that should be arranged between you and the artist, and has no place on this or any other board. It's something entirely different.
I, personally, don't do swaps. I need my bears to provide my income. End of story. Even if I got Judi's awesome, $1225 Lion-and-Lamb set in return for one of my pieces (none of which, by the way, has ever gone as high as $1225,) that doesn't pay PG&E, Cal Water, and my VISA bill for January. That's why, when people ask me so kindly to swap with them, I am honored and grateful, but always say NO. I just can't.
My point in bringing that up is that these private queries into swapping with me are just that... private. I've had offers from lovely artists but I just can't for practical reasons. It's kept private and becomes an honor, and not an embarrassment, when the DESIRED artist is sought out. My concern is that it would be public, and a humiliation, if someone said instead, "Here's my work... any takers?"... and then GOT none!
I think part of the risk, fun, enjoyment of a swap, as I've known groups and clubs to do them, is the unknown element, and the aspect of support.
Above all, I want to protect people from misunderstandings, rejection, embarrassment, or humiliation, at the hands of something that was intended to be well meaning.
By the way.... I have no idea whether the powers that be here are even on board with this idea yet, so don't get too carried away, my friends! Let's just keep tossing ideas out there, and see where we land.
I can tell you that if this flies, it will likely be the most tightly controlled, monitored, and sanctioned subforum we have. There's just a lot of potential for mishaps.
Kim-Bee BearsCan I have the left instead?
sorry, I am in a silly Friday mood! 
