Banner Sponsors
For artists and collectors sponsored by Intercal...your mohair supplier and Johnna's Mohair Store
After having just returned from lunch with my so called "art" friends, I am seething mad. Now mind you, these friends (although at this minute I'm not thinking so very friendly!) know what I do for a living and have always been very supportive. I was so excited to share the news of TOBY nominees that I "knew" that I took a couple of pictures with me to show them some of their work. Bad idea. The long and short of it, because I won't go into the actual conversation, is this. Is what we do really art? What makes it art if it looks like a toy? If we display it only in a kids room does that make it a toy. Does the fact that it may go in a livingroom make it art?
Am I foolish in the thought that what I do is create art?
Can you tell I had a triple latte with my lunch?
Steaming mad and thinking my friends are idiots, 
Aleta
Sorry, don't feel like sending warmest hugs right now. 
Aleta, this topic is a time bomb. The doll world goes round and round about it as well, as I understand it. I think it's not just a "living room vs. playroom", adult-collectible-vs.-kid-plaything issue. It's also a "Jackson Pollack splash" vs. "Pablo Picasso abstract" vs. "Norman Rockwell realism" vs. "Monet Impressionist" issue.
Honestly, there's no winning or resolving it, I don't think.
I once participated in a discussion on this very topic which went round and round, quite rightly and honorably so, because it's a worthy question. And the bottom line at the end of the day is that we had to agree that art was art if a person PERCEIVED it as such.
If what I make inspires and touches you, and makes you go "ahhhhhhh," then it's art. And if what I make doesn't, it's not.
To YOU.
Try GOOGLING a definition of art and you'll come away with some fascinating stuff.
Heck... I might just do that myself.
If it makes you feel any better, Aleta... I think your bears are most definitely art. Art of the prettiest and most heart-touching, warm-fuzzy-generating kind.
I'd much rather own A Silly Bear than a bronze Rodin. Because, as much as I can admire Rodin's sculpting, it just doesn't resonate with me in the ways that I, personally, value most.
Hugs to you, Miss Caffienated,
Flying Fur StudiosWell, this is a big discussion, but........
You ask if it's a toy, is it art. Well, if it's clay is it art? If it's metal is it art? Wood, is that art?
I've seen art made of lego, food, toilet paper, you name it. So why not mohair? Or synethic fibre?
Really, don't listen to anyone. WE are artists for sure!
bears by beesley TMWonderful question Aleta! I like to think it is a gift and a privelage. I know since becoming disabled and unable to work or drive for 5 years now that without this privelage, I would not be!
Many Hugs Louise
Posts: 8,574Dalring Aleta,
Yes.
dilu
Try wrapping your head aroudn THIS. It's even wordier than I am! Shocking!!! 
From Wikipedia:
===============================================
Art
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
By its original and broadest definition, art (from the Latin ars, meaning "skill" or "craft") is the product or process of the effective application of a body of knowledge and a set of skills; this meaning is preserved in such phrases as "liberal arts" and "martial arts". However, in the modern use of the word, which rose to prominence during the Renaissance, art is commonly understood to be the process or result of making material works (or artwork) which, from concept to creation, adhere to the "creative impulse"—that is, art is distinguished from other works by being in large part unprompted by necessity, by biological drive, or by any undisciplined pursuit of recreation. By both definitions of the word, artistic works have existed for almost as long as humankind, from early pre-historic art to contemporary art.
The creative arts are a collection of disciplines whose principal purpose is in the output of material that is compelled by a personal drive and echoes or reflects a message, mood, and symbolism for the viewer to interpret. As such, the term art may be taken to include forms as diverse as prose writing, poetry, dance, acting, music, sculpture and painting. In addition to serving as a method of pure creativity and self-expression, the purpose of works of art may be to communicate ideas, such as in politically-, religiously-, and philosophically-motivated art, to create a sense of beauty (see aesthetics and fine art) or pleasure, or to generate strong emotions; the purpose may also be seemingly nonexistent.
As a form of cultural expression, art may be defined by the pursuit of diversity and the usage of narratives of liberation and exploration (i.e. art history, art criticism, and art theory) to mediate its boundaries. This distinction may be applied to objects or performances, current or historical, and its prestige extends to those who made, found, exhibit, or own them. Other than originality, there are no widely agreed-upon criteria for what is or isn't considered "art", and there are many divergent definitions of art to seek more specific requirements.
Etymology
The word art derives from the Latin ars, which roughly translates to "skill" or "craft", and derives in turn from an Indo-European root meaning "arrangement" or "to arrange". This is the only near-universal definition of art: that whatever is described as such has undergone a deliberate process of arrangement by an agent. A few examples where this meaning proves very broad include artifact, artificial, artifice, artillery, medical arts, and military arts. However, there are many other colloquial uses of the word, all with some relation to its etymological roots.
Art forms
There are a variety of arts, including visual arts and design, decorative arts, plastic arts, and the performing arts. Artistic expression takes many forms: painting, drawing, printmaking, sculpture, music, literature, and architecture are the most widely recognised forms. However, since the advent of modernism and the technological revolution, new forms have emerged. These include photography, film, video art, installation art, conceptual art, performance art, community arts, land art, fashion, comics, computer art, anime, and, most recently, video games.
Within each form, a wide range of genres may exist. For instance, a painting may be a still life, a portrait, or a landscape and may deal with historical or domestic subjects. In addition, a work of art may be representational or abstract.
Most forms of art fit under two main categories: fine arts and applied arts, though there is no clear dividing line. In the visual arts, the term fine arts most often refers to painting and sculpture, arts which have little or no practical function and are valued in terms of the visual pleasure they provide or their success in communicating ideas or feelings. Other visual arts typically designated as fine arts include printmaking, drawing, photography, film, and video, though the tools used to realize these media are often used to make applied or commercial art as well. Architecture typically confounds the distinctions between fine and applied art, since the form involves designing structures that strive to be both attractive and functional. The term applied arts is most often used to describe the design or decoration of functional objects to make them visually pleasing. Artists who create applied arts or crafts are usually referred to as designers, artisans, or craftspeople.
Defining art
There is often confusion about the meaning of the term art because multiple meanings of the word are used interchangeably. Individuals use the word art to identify painting, as well as singing.
Characteristics of art
There follow some generally accepted characteristics of art; after this there is some lengthier discussion of several of those facets perceived as universal or central to art:
* encourages an intuitive understanding rather than a rational understanding, as, for example, with an article in a scientific journal;
* was created with the intention of evoking such an understanding, or an attempt at such an understanding, in the audience;
* was created with no other purpose or function other than to be itself (a radical, "pure art" definition);
* elusive, in that the work may communicate on many different levels of appreciation; one may take the example of Gericault's Raft of the Medusa, in the case of which special knowledge concerning the shipwreck the painting depicts is not a prerequisite to appreciating it, but allows the appreciation of Gericault's political intentions in the piece;
* in relation to the above, the piece may offer itself to many different interpretations, or, though it superficially depicts a mundane event or object, invites reflection upon elevated themes;
* demonstrates a high level of ability or fluency within a medium; this characteristic might be considered a point of contention, since many modern artists (most notably, conceptual artists) do not themselves create the works they conceive, or do not even create the work in a conventional, demonstrative sense (one might think of Tracey Emin's controversial My Bed);
* the conferral of a particularly appealing or aesthetically satisfying structure or form upon an original set of unrelated, passive constituents.
Skill
Art can connote a sense of trained ability or mastery of a medium. An example of this is the contemporary young master Josignacio, creator of Plastic Paint Medium. It can also simply refer to the developed and efficient use of a language so as to convey meaning, with immediacy and or depth.
A common view is that the epithet 'art' (particular in its elevated sense) requires a certain level of creative expertise by the artist, whether this be a demonstration of technical ability (such as one might find in many works of the Rennaissance or in the plays of Shakespeare) or an originality in stylistic approach, or a combination of these two.
For example, a common contemporary criticism of some modern painting occurs along the lines of objecting to the apparent lack of skill or ability required in the production of the artistic object. One might take Emin's My Bed or Hirst's The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living, as examples of pieces wherein the artist exercised little to no traditionally recognised sets of skills. In the first case, Emin simply slept (and engaged in other activities) in her bed before placing the result in a gallery; in the second, Hirst came up with the conceptual design for the artwork, and left its eventual creation to employed artisans. These approaches are exemplary of a particular kind of contemporary art: conceptual art.
The exclusionary view that art requires a certain skill level to produce is often described as a lay critique. It derives from the fact that in Western culture at least, art has traditionally been pushed in the direction of representationalism, the literal presentation of reality through literal images. On the other hand, criticism has often been brought to bear on modern artists for having no creative involvement whatsoever in their creations: one might take Hirst's work again as emblematic of this approach. It may be further noted that certain forms of art outside a Western tradition, such as Islamic geometric designs and calligraphy, Buddhist or Hindu mandalas and Celtic knotwork, though they are non-representational, still require a measure of skill and certain creative involvement in their execution.
Judgments of value
Somewhat in relation to the above, the word art is also used to apply judgments of value, as in such expressions as "that meal was a work of art" (the cook is an artist), or "the art of deception," (the highly attained level of skill of the deceiver is praised). It is this use of the word as a measure of high quality and high value that gives the term its flavor of subjectivity.
Making judgments of value requires a basis for criticism: at the simplest level, a way to determine whether the impact of the object on the senses meets the criteria to be considered art, whether it is perceived to be attractive or repellent. Though perception is always colored by experience, and thus a reaction to art on these grounds is necessarily subjective, it is commonly taken that that which is not aesthetically satisfying in some fashion cannot be art. However, "good" art is not always, or even regularly, aesthetically appealing to a majority of viewers. In other words, an artist's prime motivation need not be the pursuit of the aesthetic, and art often depicts terrible images made for social, moral, or thought-provoking reasons; for example, Francisco Goya's painting depicting the Spanish shootings of 3rd of May 1808 is a graphic depiction of a firing squad executing several pleading civilians, yet at the same time, the horrific imagery demonstrates Goya's keen artistic ability in composition and execution, and his fitting social and political outrage. Thus the debate continues as to what mode of aesthetic satisfaction, if any, is required to define 'art'.
The assumption of new values or the rebellion against accepted notions of what is aesthetically superior need not occur concurrently with a complete abandonment of the pursuit of that which is aesthetically appealing. Indeed, the reverse is often true, that in the revision of what is popularly conceived of as being aesthetically appealing allows for a re-invigoration of aesthetic sensibility, and a new appreciation for the standards of art itself. Countless schools have proposed their own ways to define quality, yet they all seem to agree in at least one point: once their aesthetic choices are accepted, the value of the work of art is determined by its capacity to transcend the limits of its chosen medium in order to strike some universal chord, or by the rarity of the skill of the artist, or in its accurate reflection in what is termed the zeitgeist.
[edit]
Communicating emotion
Art appeals to human emotions. It can arouse aesthetic or moral feelings, and can be understood as a way of communicating these feelings. Artists have to express themselves so that their public is aroused, but they do not have to do so consciously. Art explores what is commonly termed as the human condition; that is, essentially, what it is to be human, and art of a superior kind often brings about some new insight concerning humanity (not always positive) or demonstrates a level of skill so fine as to push forward the boundaries of collective human ability.
This is not to say that technical skill is a necessary prerequisite of art, but rather that a high degree of skill goes some way in conferring a judgement of high standard upon an artist or artwork.
[edit]
Creative impulse
From one perspective, art is a generic term for any product of the creative impulse, out of which sprang all other human pursuits — such as science via alchemy, and religion via shamanism. The term 'art' offers no true definition besides those based within the cultural, historical and geographical context in which it is applied. Though to the artists themselves, the impulse to create is undeniable; an artist can no more deny that impulse than he/she could ignore breathing (one might compare Kandinsky's inner necessity to this popular view). It is because of the overbearing need to create, in the face of financial ruin, public obscurity or political opposition, that artists are typically conceived of as unstable, even crazy, or misguided.
[edit]
Differences in defining art
Definitions of art and aesthetic arguments usually proceed from one of several possible perspectives. Art may be defined by the intention of the artist as in the writings of Dewey. Art may be seen as being in the response/emotion of the viewer as Tolstoy claims. In Danto's view, it can be defined as a character of the item itself or as a function of an object's context.
Plato
For Plato, art is a pursuit whose adherents are not to be trusted; given that their productions imitate the sensory world (itself an imitation of the divine world of forms) art necessarily is an imitation of an imitation, and thus is hopelessly far from the source of the truth. Plato, it may be noted, barred artists from access to his ideal city, in his Republic.
Aristotle
Aristotle saw art in less of a bad light; though he shared Plato's poor opinion of it, he nevertheless thought that art might serve the purpose of emotional catharsis. That is, by witnessing the sufferings and celebrations of actors onstage onlookers might vicariously experience these same feelings themselves, and thereby purge such negative feelings.
Institutional definition
Many people's opinions of what art is would fall inside a relatively small range of accepted standards, or "institutional definition of art" (George Dickie 1974). This derives from education and other social factors. Most people did not consider the depiction of a Brillo Box or a store-bought urinal to be art until Andy Warhol and Marcel Duchamp (respectively) placed them in the context of art (i.e., the art gallery), which then provided the association of these objects with the values that define art (Although, strictly speaking, Warhol's artwork was not an actual Brillo box but an exact replica of one - so it met the traditional criterion of skill at the very least).
Most viewers of these objects initially rejected such associations, because the objects did not, themselves, meet the accepted criteria. The objects needed to be absorbed into the general consensus of what art is before they achieved the near-universal acceptance as art in the contemporary era. Once accepted and viewed with a fresh eye, the smooth, white surfaces of Duchamp's urinal are strikingly similar to classical marble sculptural forms, whether the artist intended it or not. This type of recontextualizing provides the same spark of connection expected from any traditionally created art. It should be noted, however, that Duchamps act might be as readily interpreted as a demonstration of the (not always beneficial) power of artistic institutions, rather than the universal art potentially inherent in all objects.
The placement of an object in an artistic context is not taken as a universal standard of art, but is a common characteristic of conceptual art, prevalent since the 1960s; notably, the Stuckist art movement criticises this tendency of recent art.
Related issues
Social criticism
Art is often seen as belonging to one social class and excluding others. In this context, art is seen as a high-status activity associated with wealth, the ability to purchase art, and the leisure required to pursue or enjoy it. The palaces of Versailles or the Hermitage in St. Petersburg with their vast collections of art, amassed by the fabulously wealthy royalty of Europe exemplify this view. Collecting such art is the preserve of the rich, in one viewpoint.
Before the 13th century in Europe, artisans were considered to belong to a lower caste, since they were essentially manual labourers. After Europe was re-exposed to classical culture during the Renaissance, particularly in the nation-states of what is now Italy (Florence, Siena), artists gained an association with high status. However, arrangements of "fine" and expensive goods have always been used by institutions of power as marks of their own status. This is seen in the 20th and 21st century by the commissioning or purchasing of art by big businesses and corporations as decoration for their offices.
Utility
There are many who ascribe to certain arts the quality of being non-utilitarian. This fits within the "art as good" system of definitions and suffers from a class prejudice against labor and utility. Opponents of this view argue that all human activity has some utilitarian function, and these objects claimed to be "non-utilitarian" actually have the rather mundane and banal utility of attempting to mystify and codify unworkable justifications for arbitrary social hierarchy. It might also be argued that non-utilitarian is, in this context, a mis-usage; that art is not in and of itself, useless, but rather that it particularly use does not manifest itself in any traditionally demonstrable way (though advances in neuroscience may arguably enable the isolation of those associated cortices of the brain concerned with the creation or appreciation of art).
Art is also used by art therapists and some psychotherapists and clinical psychologists as art therapy. The end product is not the principal goal in this case; rather a process of healing, through creative acts, is sought. The resultant piece of artwork may also offer insight into the troubles experienced by the subject and may suggest suitable approaches to be used in more conventional forms of psychiatric therapy.
The "use" of art from the artist’s standpoint is as a means of expression. When art is conceived as a device, it serves several context and perspective specific functions. From the artist’s perspective it allows one to symbolize complex ideas and emotions in an arbitrary language subject only to the interpretation of the self and peers.
In a social context, it can serve to soothe the soul and promote popular morale. In a more negative aspect of this facet, art is often utilised as a form of propaganda, and thus can be used to subtly influence popular conceptions or mood (in some cases, artworks are appropriated to be used in this manner, without the creator's initial intention).
From a more anthropological perspective, art is a way of passing ideas and concepts on to later generations in a (somewhat) universal language. The interpretation of this language is very dependent upon the observer’s perspective and context, and it might be argued that the very subjectivity of art demonstrates its importance in providing an arena in which rival ideas might be exchanged and discussed, or to provide a social context in which disparate groups of people might congregate and mingle.
History of art
The term 'art history' typically refers to a historical examination of the various trends of the visual arts through certain periods of human history. It may also be taken to encompass a study of the theories of art, which may or may not include an examination of their historical context.
Symbols
Much of the development of individual artist deals with finding principles for how to express certain ideas through various kinds of symbolism. For example, Vasily Kandinsky developed his use of color in painting through a system of stimulus response, where over time he gained an understanding of the emotions that can be evoked by color and combinations of color. Contemporary artist Andy Goldsworthy, on the other hand, chose to use the medium of found natural objects and materials to arrange temporary sculptures.
Cleathero CreationsI saw a paiting sell it was pure white with one dot in the middle.
It was called art.
I have seen people paint themselves and stand around.
It was called art too.
I have seen pictures of women reading poems naked while pulling the poem out of various orifices and yes that was called art.
We create, we mould, something new comes out of it. We paint it we sew and sculpt it. It is a form of art.
Recognised by some but not all, I think that is the way with all art though. I don't see the above examples as art but to those it meant something to it is.
Flying Fur StudiosSHelli, that IS the longest post EVER!!!!!!! Good reading though.
I take credit for NONE of it. Don't blame the messenger! I was trying to make a not-so-subtle point about how impossible it is to nail down the answer to the unanswerable question, "What is art?"
Upstate New YorkYes. You're inspired, you plan, you design, you select mediums, you create it, you put on finishing touches, you starve trying to sell it ... isn't that art?
P.S. Penny and I are on our way to "talk" with your friends.
Upstate New YorkSHelli, that IS the longest post EVER!!!!!!! Good reading though.
You're finished with it? You're fast Heather!
Bears-a-Bruin!I can't pretend I read all of your last post Shelley (toooo long!) but I did catch sight of the words 'creative impulse'. And if working to the tune of our own, individual creative impulses makes our bears art, then yes, it definitely is art.
I think many people misunderstand the term 'art' to be honest....myself included, when I first started out creating bears. I was uncomfortable with the term 'artist' applied to myself. But that has turned around, partly due to the experience I've gained, my growing confidence, and also the support of my friends and family who have always insisted that my craft is an artform.
Aleta, it's unfortunate and upsetting for you that your friends don't understand what is meant by the word 'art', but please don't get angry with them. Try to educate them instead! And if that doesn't work, just tell yourself that other people's opinions don't matter anyway - it's how you feel about your artwork that counts!
Okay! I'm e-mailing them all wikipedia's definition. Thank you, Shelli!
You know, I really do know the answer to the question. I was just so wound up. Maybe they were just trying to get my goat so to speak. A little calm reassurance was just what I needed.
I guess the reason I was even doubting myself just a little was that I have been asked to show my work in one of the areas most prestigious art galleries. I realize it's a really great opportunity but I'm really nervous. Putting oneself out there when you've just had lunch with a bunch "Doubting Thomases" is a nerve wracking proposition. By the way, they don't know I've been asked and I didn't tell them for fear they would laugh. I should have told them.
Finally calm enough to send warmest bear hugs again, :hug:
Aleta
Bears-a-Bruin!I guess the reason I was even doubting myself just a little was that I have been asked to show my work in one of the areas most prestigious art galleries.
Wow, Aleta! How exciting! Well done - you should definitely hold your head high about this!!!
Absolutely! And if they don't "get it", with or without the validation and credibility of that gallery show to support your bears as "art", then just be sure NOT to take those particular friends out to dinner with the huge profits you will secure from that show!!!
Country BearsAwww Aleta, I don't know how ANYONE could even begin to upset you 
, you are the most lovely lady 
, how dare they, they're gonna get your number one fan round to sort them out - just you wait and see!! :hug:
My personal view, we are all artists. This is an art, we don't make 'toys', we make collectors items in soft sculpture (or whatever you want to call it) - that's my take on it.
Besides, who cares what they think, I LOVE WHAT WE ALL DO!!! :dance: :hug:
:hug:
Newcastle, OntarioAleta, I would be annoyed with your friends too. If a friend of mine was making things to sell, whether I liked the item or not, I could never belittle what they did, even if it was something I didn't care for - quite frankly I think your friends were just plain rude, or maybe a tad jealous. When a person puts their heart and soul into creating anything, it is art in my eyes. You know I have always adored your bears, long before we were both part of Teddy Talk - your classic style is my favourite and your teddy faces speak to me. So, pick yourself up and dust yourself off, like our mother's taught us and go do your gallery show! He who laughs last, laughs best! Love ya.
Brenda
Wild Thyme OriginalsAleta... What an oportunity that is!!!!! I'm so happy for you! That's fantastic! :dance: :dance: Remember, not so long ago... photography wasn't considered "art." And now.... well.... all that's changed! It just takes time..... 
Beary truly,
Kim Basta
Wild Thyme Originals
I'm trying to find humor as I let my anger go. I'll share, in pictures, what I did after lunch and what I've learned since.
Picture 1: Never touch the clippers when you're mad and have had three shots of espresso.
Picture 2: The Easter bunnies are afraid of me now. See Picture 1 and remember, never touch the clippers when you're mad and have had three shots of espresso.
Thank you, everyone, for your kind and thoughtful postings!!
Warmest and biggest bear hugs, :hug:
Aleta
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'm laughing less at your bunnies -- actually, they're really very charming and terribly cute -- than at your self-depracating sense of humor, Aleta. You're the coolest chick!
PS Those eyes are awesome!
PPS Is the bunny hiding on the far right, drunk? Or is he the "lookout" for the "all clear" signal?
Storytime BearsYou know for the longest time I had considered myself an artist, while I was a fine arts major at Ball State I felt like that was what people expected me to be, but I no longer call myself an artist, I am a crafter and I am so proud of that.
Are the bears I make works of art?????? I think it takes a lot of artistic talent to create them and I am proud of the reaction people have to them, I refuse to label them as art, art to me is something that sits in a dusty museum not to be touched. I don't want my work to not be touched, I want people to touch it and enjoy it. I come from a long line of craftsman, my great grandfather was a carpenter and my grandfather was the same, they loved to create with wood. Their work was so beautiful and to be enjoyed. So I am proud to be a crafter, a toy maker and I while I do feel that what we do is artistic I feel it is a craft that should be celebrated and respected. I was asked to do an "artist's event" at a local gallery and I did it, there I stood with all the "real artists", my little mice and bears looked so out of place, but I was so excited about sharing my craft with others and I was so excited to promote the world of fur, at the end of the show the owner of the gallery came up and said she never had such a great turn out (the newspaper listed teddy bears in the article) and the joy that seemed to come from seeing my work, that people were thrilled to touch them, and was saying they were going to try their hand at bearmaking or they were talking about their childhood bear. So my feeling is, if you think bearmaking is an art be confident that it is an art, but for me I will be forever proud of my crafting ways.
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"
Bronwen wrote:
I have seen pictures of women reading poems naked while pulling the poem out of various orifices and yes that was called art.
I've just gotta ask...
... Where the heck have you been hangin' out, girl???
PPS Is the bunny on the far right, drunk? Or is he the "lookout" for the "all clear" signal?
Silly you, Shelli! I don't have drunk bunnies in my studio. Of course, he's the lookout bunny!! The "lookout here she comes" bunny. 
Apple Dumpling DesignsI love your bunnies Aleta...they are adorable...shaved or not.
In terms of the art friends...I'll take on any art critic who tells me my childrens drawings/creations from when they were "babies" are NOT art. They are the best art I could ever imagine owning because of who they came from and how they make me feel when I look at them...all four or five tupperware HUGE tubs of them.
Art is in the eye of the beholder...and I've seen some pretty ugly "art."
I lost my train of thought...scary...
Anyway...the above is how I feel about the bears & friends that everyone here creates. They speak to you...they tickle the senses...for me that's art whether it's a stuffed, flat, in ink, paint or whatever. It comes from the heart!!!
Posts: 8,574Oh Aleta,
Poor bunny, how cute you were with your bunnies.....and that was very artistic! :hug: :hug:
dilu
